Should also mention that Ninja's ability to evade normal hits with Utsusemi means Mboze still gains less TP from attacks, vs hitting a DRK (for weak damage nonetheless). I just don't know the precise numbers behind how much less TP Mboze gains from not landing an attack. Is it like 127 or something standard? Do we know these numbers?
Ninja Dual Wields swings, so that plays a part in how much tp Mboze gets before Ninja can WS. If it takes Ninja twice as many strikes to hit enough TP to WS, then you don't necessarily get any advantage over a heavier DD unless the amount of tp you give a monster for single hand weapons is somehow less than 2handers. Again, would need numbers on how much tp/swing sword/katana generates vs gs, and then how many average swings it takes both jobs to get enough tp to ws, which is less, etc. Then factor in the first point I mentioned. So some math involved.
Ninja also has 45 seconds of Mikage. I don't see anything mentioned that this SP gives NIN SBII, but if it does, it instantly becomes a very good zerg option for this particular strat.
Odyssey R25 Confirmed ATM Now Maybe 30?...
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Odyssey R25 Confirmed ATM Now Maybe 30?...
yeah I definitely don't know near enough about NIN to really critique its potential in this fight, but I do know over the years I've always run into a NIN now and then that shocks me in what they can handle :)
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So teammate brought up something, we don't necessarily need to kill them in one 15m fight. We could, for clearing purposes, split the fight into two teams with the first team going in with the express purpose of reducing HP while the second team is the fully buffed "clear" setup.
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Asura.Saevel said: » So teammate brought up something, we don't necessarily need to kill them in one 15m fight. We could, for clearing purposes, split the fight into two teams with the first team going in with the express purpose of reducing HP while the second team is the fully buffed "clear" setup. That may end up being the ticket. Pre-planned, double setups. Although, my experience on V15 was every single 5% 2nd chance we tried, we got steamrolled so fast. But maybe having fully augmented Odyssey gear and M.Lvl 20 will be enough? I hope so. Fenrir.Velner said: » Asura.Saevel said: » So teammate brought up something, we don't necessarily need to kill them in one 15m fight. We could, for clearing purposes, split the fight into two teams with the first team going in with the express purpose of reducing HP while the second team is the fully buffed "clear" setup. That may end up being the ticket. Pre-planned, double setups. Although, my experience on V15 was every single 5% 2nd chance we tried, we got steamrolled so fast. But maybe having fully augmented Odyssey gear and M.Lvl 20 will be enough? I hope so. That is because you used up your premium jobs at the start and had to thrown something together for the second round. These bosses are the most dangerous at low HP's, so you really want your A team to be in there at that time, meaning you send in team B early on as fodder. For First group WAR (Savage Blade) GEO (Fury / Haste?) RDM (Haste II / Dia III) SCH (Healer) MNK (Penance Chi Blast) BST (Open with Vermin Killer Instinct then switch to Leech) Second Team DRK (Torc spam) COR (Samurai / Chaos) BRD (Usually songs) WHM (Healer / Auspice) SMN (Mewing / ect..) BLU (TP Reset / Feather / Silent) The first team gives less TP and so should be able to go longer with just a BST doing resets, the goal is to knock off 30~40% of it's HP, the more the better, hold it for the full 15 minutes without wiping. The second team goes in and should be able to finish the fight off with time to spare. The reason why every second chance failed is because you probably loaded up all of your best jobs and buffers on the first run and then had nothing of quality to handle the next battle. It would be a good idea to have two effective teams planned to handle all of the mechanics. So that second chances aren't so terrible.
Coming off of the heels of an alternative method for low to feed , you could somewhat replicate a B team TP reduce strategy if you really want. Use samurai instead of dark Knight, bring Monk for penance, summoner for mew, RDM for buffs and enfeebles, Geo for support and maybe dancer for steps, only engaging to presto/step. Warrior for warcry? Lol. Edit wow, Saevel said word for word my same response Asura.Saevel said: » Fenrir.Velner said: » Asura.Saevel said: » So teammate brought up something, we don't necessarily need to kill them in one 15m fight. We could, for clearing purposes, split the fight into two teams with the first team going in with the express purpose of reducing HP while the second team is the fully buffed "clear" setup. That may end up being the ticket. Pre-planned, double setups. Although, my experience on V15 was every single 5% 2nd chance we tried, we got steamrolled so fast. But maybe having fully augmented Odyssey gear and M.Lvl 20 will be enough? I hope so. That is because you used up your premium jobs at the start and had to thrown something together for the second round. These bosses are the most dangerous at low HP's, so you really want your A team to be in there at that time, meaning you send in team B early on as fodder. For Mboze we theory crafted the following First group WAR (Savage Blade) GEO (Fury / Haste?) RDM (Haste II / Dia III) SCH (Healer) MNK (Penance Chi Blast) BST (Open with Vermin Killer Instinct then switch to Leech) Second Team DRK (Torc spam) COR (Samurai / Chaos) BRD (Usually songs) WHM (Healer / Auspice) SMN (Mewing / ect..) BLU (TP Reset / Feather / Silent) The first team gives less TP and so should be able to go longer with just a BST doing resets, the goal is to knock off 30~40% of it's HP, the more the better, hold it for the full 15 minutes without wiping. The second team goes in and should be able to finish the fight off with time to spare. Not Ongo, Mboze Asura.Saevel said: » For Ongo we theory crafted the following
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The "two planned teams" idea for Mboze is good, and probably what they had in mind by giving you 3 chances to do it. Really taps into your group's full potential. Something to keep in mind is that people have reported that the T3s retain their aura on subsequent fights if it is not removed on a previous fight. So your second group would have to be prepared to remove it right away if you timed out when it was active.
When I daisy-chained 3 Gogmagogs in a row for easy RP, each subsequent time he used his SP as soon as I aggroed him, despite him using it on his previous attempt. So they at least get back their SPs. That may also be the case with T3s if you attempt a repeat fight, and something groups might want to be prepared to deal with right away if they are going to get clears across several attempts Something else I just thought of: you could deliberately enter fights with less than 6 players, which frees up potential job combinations among the group later and allows you to use a trust to fill the gap. Extra healing, buffs, etc. In the case of Mboze where only one person is dealing the damage anyways, might you be able to get away with only Ygnas healing for your first run? He's extremely reliable at MM45, and allows you to use WHM on your second run.
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Lakshmi.Buukki said: » The "two planned teams" idea for Mboze is good, and probably what they had in mind by giving you 3 chances to do it. Really taps into your group's full potential. Something to keep in mind is that people have reported that the T3s retain their aura on subsequent fights if it is not removed on a previous fight. So your second group would have to be prepared to remove it right away if you timed out when it was active. When I daisy-chained 3 Gogmagogs in a row for easy RP, each subsequent time he used his SP as soon as I aggroed him, despite him using it on his previous attempt. So they at least get back their SPs. That may also be the case with T3s if you attempt a repeat fight, and something groups might want to be prepared to deal with right away if they are going to get clears across several attempts If you time out on an A3 while their aura/fetters are up, when you re-enter they already have the aura up, yes. Asura.Hya said: » Asura.Saevel said: » For Ongo we theory crafted the following I write it earlier before the thread got nuked .... which was weird. So basically we've got a rough plan but we need to find out of Requiescat works on Ongo or not, it's types as magical damage but it's non-elemental nature has it ignore resist tiers, so in theory it should work. If requiescat works then we can structure the first team around spamming it to reduce HP, otherwise we have to resort to RDM bursting, and hope to knock off as much as possible. Team A PLD BLU (making SC) ??? (Maybe BST, WAR or DNC, not sure) RDM (Bursting) SMN (Ghetto GEO with Shiva Aura) WHM (healing cause melee in range) Melee's make SC's and RDM bursts, won't be the greatest but hopefully can chip down 20~30% HP. Team B RUN COR BLM SCH GEO BRD Do Gravitation -> Steel Cyclone -> Wild Fire while BLM rotates stoneja bursts and get Rayke reset to chain with SS. Lakshmi.Buukki said: » The "two planned teams" idea for Mboze is good, and probably what they had in mind by giving you 3 chances to do it. Really taps into your group's full potential. Something to keep in mind is that people have reported that the T3s retain their aura on subsequent fights if it is not removed on a previous fight. So your second group would have to be prepared to remove it right away if you timed out when it was active. When I daisy-chained 3 Gogmagogs in a row for easy RP, each subsequent time he used his SP as soon as I aggroed him, despite him using it on his previous attempt. So they at least get back their SPs. That may also be the case with T3s if you attempt a repeat fight, and something groups might want to be prepared to deal with right away if they are going to get clears across several attempts Something else I just thought of: you could deliberately enter fights with less than 6 players, which frees up potential job combinations among the group later and allows you to use a trust to fill the gap. Extra healing, buffs, etc. In the case of Mboze where only one person is dealing the damage anyways, might you be able to get away with only Ygnas healing for your first run? He's extremely reliable at MM45, and allows you to use WHM on your second run. The bosses save their "state" when you time out, when you re-enter they are in the exact same condition only their SP's have been reset. This is why the second team needs to be the best team, they are the ones capable of handling it while the first is just there to eat HP off it. Think we had this discussion earlier in the Odyssey thread, and it was mentioned that Murasamemaru damage didn't work on Ongo when buffed. Don't think Requiescat does either.
Dealing 20-30% with non optimal jobs to Ongo is unrealistically optimistic to say the least. But if you really are going to try that kind of strategy, then Ninja is going to be a much better Burster than whatever your sixth slot offers. They can also lower elemental resistances with ninjutsu, as well as solo open Darkness non stop (and even do Umbra). BST seems at least worth a mention, since it has ooze which could land, but also has an Acuex pet that lowers MDB iirc. Killer Instinct could still be used as well, but IDK if BST can burst Earth element effectively.
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They actually recover a few percentage of HP on a repeat fight. I recall taking a few T3 down to within 5% and when we returned, it was back to 10%. Happened with T1 Dullahan as well
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For Ongo a well geared SMN can easily remove 400~600k HP (20~25% of V15) without having to rely on SC/MB.
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Carbuncle.Papesse said: » For Ongo a well geared SMN can easily remove 400~600k HP (20~25% of V15) without having to rely on SC/MB. Only if you're on a job for the second fight that you don't need 1hr for. The idea behind the B team would be that you wouldn't blow your wad on the first round so you put your A team in a better position to win in the second round. I don't know how well SMN could do as a second Burster though, with Geocrush or Mountain Buster.. I think both of those are magic earth. Would that be better than 45 matk from Shiva, or whatever amount of macc you get from Leviathan? Don't know. Lakshmi.Buukki said: » Ninja also has 45 seconds of Mikage. I don't see anything mentioned that this SP gives NIN SBII, but if it does, it instantly becomes a very good zerg option for this particular strat. Papesse just popped, so I went back and looked at his older posts and found this gem (which isn't on the wiki): Carbuncle.Papesse said: » Also, not sure if this was known already, Mikage doesn't simply increases Subtle Blow but actually sets the TP given to 1. Fenrir.Velner said: » Timber is 10 yalms and Canopierce is 15 yalms so that is not viable. You might be right. I recall someone was using NIN and was using Migawari for Canopierce and I thought maybe Canopierce is range from target, but it's probably not. Leviathan.Celebrindal said: » Sakpata Leggings: 10 SB1 (after augments) 13SB at R25 now ;) DRK biggest advantage in this fight is SP2. Not only it blocks all TP moves (by absorbing basically all TP), but also let you WS way faster. That makes pushing last 10-20% much easier. That being said, PLD + BLU is awesome too. At 50% PLD can Rampart, then BLU can Barrier Tusk, then PLD can rampart again, then COR can RD, repeat etc. WD, repeat etc. Diffusion Barrier Tusk lasts 4min21sec, so even with just reset on WC, it will be up for over 8 min and Timber starts at 50%, so barrier tusk will be up till the end. Rampart blocks 25% from Timber, Barrier Tusk 15%. This makes surviving it much easier. BLU can also White Wind for 1500 aoe heal to help top everyone HP. BLU can also reset TP and when tanking after hate reset, you can also have blinks to mitigate some tp feed. Btw one thing that I see HEAVILY underused in fight when we want to reduce TP feed is WHMs not using Cure 3 over and over to keep refreshing Afflatus Solace stoneskin on tank. Especially on PLD with Phalanx. If monster is hitting player for 0 (including doing 0 because of Stoneskin), it gets no TP. Use it guys!
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SimonSes said: » you can also have blinks to mitigate some tp feed I think Utsusemi stays up after some of the T3s attacks, but I don't think Blink does. I thought it was wiping on every attack, which is why I stopped using it for Mboze when I was on BLU. Lakshmi.Buukki said: » I think Utsusemi stays up after some of the T3s attacks What you mean? TP moves? or you mean that normal attacks are AoE? The normal attacks that are AOE. I recall Fargann taking damage from those, and Blink was removed from me on BLU a few times.
mboze's attacks are frontal conal (normal attacks) iirc
edit: or aoe.... about 6 yalms Lakshmi.Buukki said: » The normal attacks that are AOE. I recall Fargann taking damage from those, and Blink was removed from me on BLU a few times. I stand corrected :) I havent been fighting Mboze for months. Other things are still valid tho. Another thing that people seems to forget is that you dont need to finish those mobs in 15 min for clear. You can enter second time and finish. ofc without BRD and COR, 2nd attempt will be weaker on something like Mboze, but you can still do tons of damage in second enter. Lets say you used BLU PLD WHM COR BRD SMN in first fight. You can go with DRK RDM GEO BST SCH and some 6th job. 2nd team can still do serious damage. BST's -33att/def and Killer Instinct, with GEO Fury/Precision and RDM for Dia III and other debuffs. BST and GEO also have pets to lower Timber damage. SCH regen to keep HP at max. DRK SP2 to zerg. EDIT: that 6th job in 2nd group could be DNC, just for box and quick step. Box step, Dia III, Ooze, bolster Fury, should give DRK at least 3min+ of capped attack. Just during SP2 with capped att/acc/haste DRK could probably do few hundred thousands of damage. Cerberus.Shadowmeld said: » Carbuncle.Papesse said: » For Ongo a well geared SMN can easily remove 400~600k HP (20~25% of V15) without having to rely on SC/MB. Only if you're on a job for the second fight that you don't need 1hr for. The idea behind the B team would be that you wouldn't blow your wad on the first round so you put your A team in a better position to win in the second round. I don't know how well SMN could do as a second Burster though, with Geocrush or Mountain Buster.. I think both of those are magic earth. Would that be better than 45 matk from Shiva, or whatever amount of macc you get from Leviathan? Don't know. Even without buffs SMN can deal a lot of damage over a period of 15 min and not just on Ongo, I have once pushed V15 Mboze to 75% (solo with trusts).
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For the timeout issues with the new ranks are they trying to force the job-change and use of the additional 15m that's available with the extra moglophone II
Still not sure if anyone tried Murasamemaru against Ongo? Could be another idea for B team if it works. PLD SMN DNC RDM SAM GEO (can use BST instead of GEO for 1st fight) for example.
SimonSes said: » Still not sure if anyone tried Murasamemaru against Ongo? Could be another idea for B team if it works. PLD SMN DNC RDM SAM GEO (can use BST instead of GEO for 1st fight) for example. Lakshmi.Buukki said: » Think we had this discussion earlier in the Odyssey thread, and it was mentioned that Murasamemaru damage didn't work on Ongo when buffed. Don't think Requiescat does either.
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Unfortunately it's all hearsay without actual numbers, like "we went in with these buffs against this difficulty and here was our results".
Asura.Hya said: » SimonSes said: » Still not sure if anyone tried Murasamemaru against Ongo? Could be another idea for B team if it works. PLD SMN DNC RDM SAM GEO (can use BST instead of GEO for 1st fight) for example. Lakshmi.Buukki said: » Think we had this discussion earlier in the Odyssey thread, and it was mentioned that Murasamemaru damage didn't work on Ongo when buffed. Don't think Requiescat does either. i could be remembering the context incorrectly, as I can't find the exact post where the idea was disproved. Someone can go check if it works, but this comment below says Requiescat did crap damage. Leviathan.Boposhopo said: » Asura.Saevel said: » So question, has anyone attempted to have buffed sword users with decent Requiescat sets? We've been mulling it over but never had the chance to see if Requiescat's funky nature will let us bypass Ongo's silliness? Tried Requiescat, does terrible damage. |
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