Odyssey R25 Confirmed ATM Now Maybe 30?...
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Odyssey R25 Confirmed ATM Now Maybe 30?...
Which keep in mind I don't believe either is hard at this point and I don't think slapping on ho makes someone omega hard. We beat mboze v15 with a war instead of a drk so the tp limit isn't even needed right now. Maybe in next set to be safe because of hp stacking se gonna give them sure but currently you don't need a drk or bst to be v15 mboze.
Asura.Saevel said: » Lakshmi.Buukki said: » So stockpile 50k Bumba RP for the day of the update so you can instantly max your gear after getting the clear? Cool. Wouldn't matter because someone needs to beat every other NM, including Ongo and Mboze, at V20 before they can unlock a V20 Bumba fight in order to unlock the V20 RP growth on Nyame. Back to the grind, I see. Bahamut.Justthetip said: » Asura.Saevel said: » Fenrir.Melphina said: » Quote: someone needs to beat every other NM, including Ongo and Mboze Mboze is gonna be ridiculously hard if they scale its hp up as much as I anticipate they will. Even at 3.5 mil HP that's a whole lot of sponging for a single DD to have to chew through. The fight mechanics tied to both of those Nm's are gonna be a real pain. Yeah the moment they mentioned V20 I thought through the fight mechanics and groaned. Every other NM we can crush except those two because mechanics limit our ability to kill no matter how much we buff our stats. Mbozes "you lose" button and Ongo's "can't touch me" resist tiers are complete BS. This is you being obtuse and trying to humble brag. Mboze is an easy if long fight at it's current 2.3 million HP. If they do have almost 4 million HP at V20, then it becomes impossible due to the 15 minute time limit. You can't magically "deal 80% moar damage" because you have to control TP feed or face his "I win" button. Now if we added another 10 or 15 minutes to the fight, then it does indeed become quite easy, if not even more boring at V20. SMN gives you Crytal Blessing and a last minute push with Perfect Defense, BST gives you more controlled TP resets and an upfront damage boost with Killer Instinct, I've beaten it with both. Asura.Saevel said: » Bahamut.Justthetip said: » Asura.Saevel said: » Fenrir.Melphina said: » Quote: someone needs to beat every other NM, including Ongo and Mboze Mboze is gonna be ridiculously hard if they scale its hp up as much as I anticipate they will. Even at 3.5 mil HP that's a whole lot of sponging for a single DD to have to chew through. The fight mechanics tied to both of those Nm's are gonna be a real pain. Yeah the moment they mentioned V20 I thought through the fight mechanics and groaned. Every other NM we can crush except those two because mechanics limit our ability to kill no matter how much we buff our stats. Mbozes "you lose" button and Ongo's "can't touch me" resist tiers are complete BS. This is you being obtuse and trying to humble brag. Mboze is an easy if long fight at it's current 2.3 million HP. If they do have almost 4 million HP at V20, then it becomes impossible due to the 15 minute time limit. You can't magically "deal 80% moar damage" because you have to control TP feed or face his "I win" button. Now if we added another 10 or 15 minutes to the fight, then it does indeed become quite easy, if not even more boring at V20. SMN gives you Crytal Blessing and a last minute push with Perfect Defense, BST gives you more controlled TP resets and an upfront damage boost with Killer Instinct, I've beaten it with both. Bahamut.Justthetip said: » Asura.Saevel said: » Bahamut.Justthetip said: » Asura.Saevel said: » Fenrir.Melphina said: » Quote: someone needs to beat every other NM, including Ongo and Mboze Mboze is gonna be ridiculously hard if they scale its hp up as much as I anticipate they will. Even at 3.5 mil HP that's a whole lot of sponging for a single DD to have to chew through. The fight mechanics tied to both of those Nm's are gonna be a real pain. Yeah the moment they mentioned V20 I thought through the fight mechanics and groaned. Every other NM we can crush except those two because mechanics limit our ability to kill no matter how much we buff our stats. Mbozes "you lose" button and Ongo's "can't touch me" resist tiers are complete BS. This is you being obtuse and trying to humble brag. Mboze is an easy if long fight at it's current 2.3 million HP. If they do have almost 4 million HP at V20, then it becomes impossible due to the 15 minute time limit. You can't magically "deal 80% moar damage" because you have to control TP feed or face his "I win" button. Now if we added another 10 or 15 minutes to the fight, then it does indeed become quite easy, if not even more boring at V20. SMN gives you Crytal Blessing and a last minute push with Perfect Defense, BST gives you more controlled TP resets and an upfront damage boost with Killer Instinct, I've beaten it with both. You just agreed with both me and Melphina btw, but go ahead and you do you. Asura.Saevel said: » Bahamut.Justthetip said: » Asura.Saevel said: » Bahamut.Justthetip said: » Asura.Saevel said: » Fenrir.Melphina said: » Quote: someone needs to beat every other NM, including Ongo and Mboze Mboze is gonna be ridiculously hard if they scale its hp up as much as I anticipate they will. Even at 3.5 mil HP that's a whole lot of sponging for a single DD to have to chew through. The fight mechanics tied to both of those Nm's are gonna be a real pain. Yeah the moment they mentioned V20 I thought through the fight mechanics and groaned. Every other NM we can crush except those two because mechanics limit our ability to kill no matter how much we buff our stats. Mbozes "you lose" button and Ongo's "can't touch me" resist tiers are complete BS. This is you being obtuse and trying to humble brag. Mboze is an easy if long fight at it's current 2.3 million HP. If they do have almost 4 million HP at V20, then it becomes impossible due to the 15 minute time limit. You can't magically "deal 80% moar damage" because you have to control TP feed or face his "I win" button. Now if we added another 10 or 15 minutes to the fight, then it does indeed become quite easy, if not even more boring at V20. SMN gives you Crytal Blessing and a last minute push with Perfect Defense, BST gives you more controlled TP resets and an upfront damage boost with Killer Instinct, I've beaten it with both. You just agreed with both me and Melphina btw, but go ahead and you do you. Asura.Eiryl said: »  Lakshmi.Buukki said: » Asura.Saevel said: » Lakshmi.Buukki said: » So stockpile 50k Bumba RP for the day of the update so you can instantly max your gear after getting the clear? Cool. Wouldn't matter because someone needs to beat every other NM, including Ongo and Mboze, at V20 before they can unlock a V20 Bumba fight in order to unlock the V20 RP growth on Nyame. Back to the grind, I see. Yeah, like I can see us doing the T1's and 2's pretty quickly, the first 4 T3's are gonna be annoying but it's just more of the same. The last 2 though, I just don't see 4 million HP in 15 minutes with those artificial limiters put in place. Now if SE only added like 700K HP, from 2.3 million to 3.0 million, then we could push through it with a little lucky and coordination. I wonder how much the first guy who unlocks V20 Bumba is gonna charge to open the fight? Bumba V20 opener <Do You Need It?> 200M <Can I have It?> :Edit: And problem with the other guy solved. Quote: Below video has Ngai with parse at V5/10/15 and based on that parse it has V5: around 1 027 556 HP V10: around 1 608 817 HP V15: around 2 164 454 HP I don't see that x2 at all from V10 to V15. More like +550-600k HP every 5 levels. That means V20 will have something around 2.8M. Interesting to see. If the Veng 20 had more akin to 2.8 - 3 million hp then it's a lot more doable. That scaling would still put veng 25 at closer to 3.5 million hp though, and I do think that's around the point where the time limit is gonna become a massive problem. Maybe by then we'll have enough gear upgrades over the current stuff to make a 3.5 million kill viable. The empyrean +3 we'll be getting could very well be factored into the planned equation. We'll just have to see when next Tuesday rolls around. No, he simply said that it's piss easy now but would be nigh impossible if they increased the HP as much as some fear. They're not mutually exclusive.
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Asura.Saevel said: » I can see us doing the T1's and 2's pretty quickly, the first 4 T3's are gonna be annoying but it's just more of the same. I had forgotten about having to clear all of those NMs all over again on V20, completely slipped my mind. Thanks for reminding me. Fenrir.Melphina said: » Quote: Below video has Ngai with parse at V5/10/15 and based on that parse it has V5: around 1 027 556 HP V10: around 1 608 817 HP V15: around 2 164 454 HP I don't see that x2 at all from V10 to V15. More like +550-600k HP every 5 levels. That means V20 will have something around 2.8M. Interesting to see. If the Veng 20 had more akin to 2.8 - 3 million hp then it's a lot more doable. That scaling would still put veng 25 at closer to 3.5 million hp though, and I do think that's around the point where the time limit is gonna become a massive problem. Maybe by then we'll have enough gear upgrades over the current stuff to make a 3.5 million kill viable. The empyrean +3 we'll be getting could very well be factored into the planned equation. We'll just have to see when next Tuesday rolls around. Yeah 2.8 ~ 3 million HP is much more manageable then 4 million. Still gonna be a PITA on Ongo / Mboze but at least it's something that's doable with sufficient practice and coordination. It turns those "we won with 5+ minutes remaining" to "woah we barely won that". Asura.Geriond said: » No, he simply said that it's piss easy now but would be nigh impossible if they increased the HP as much as some fear. They're not mutually exclusive. Bahamut.Justthetip said: » Which keep in mind I don't believe either is hard at this point and I don't think slapping on ho makes someone omega hard. We beat mboze v15 with a war instead of a drk so the tp limit isn't even needed right now. Maybe in next set to be safe because of hp stacking se gonna give them sure but currently you don't need a drk or bst to be v15 mboze. WAR can get just as much Subtle Blow (65) as DRK. . . so I don't understand this point about TP limiting being unnecessary. Because it definitely still is. Fenrir.Velner said: » Bahamut.Justthetip said: » Which keep in mind I don't believe either is hard at this point and I don't think slapping on ho makes someone omega hard. We beat mboze v15 with a war instead of a drk so the tp limit isn't even needed right now. Maybe in next set to be safe because of hp stacking se gonna give them sure but currently you don't need a drk or bst to be v15 mboze. WAR can get just as much Subtle Blow (65) as DRK. . . so I don't understand this point about TP limiting being unnecessary. Because it definitely still is. The difference is WAR swings much slower then DRK due to DRK being able to hit delay floor with LR. DRK Gear Haste: 256 JA Haste: 256 Magic: 448 Total: (1024-960)/1024 0.0625 delay, capped at 0.20 WAR Gear Haste: 256 Magic: 448 Total: (1024-704)/1024 0.3125 delay. DRK ends up swinging 56% faster (0.3125/0.20) and thus feeding ~56% more TP but dealing more damage. WAR's can just do fencer savage like they do on Bumba and it's actually a safer strategy and not that much less DPS. On the other hand one of our guys made a Father Time with Subtle Blow II +25 and has been running a 75 Subtle Blow set, gonna be interesting to see how it works in a full clear run. Would that much Subtle Blow allow him to go harder the entire fight, and more importantly feed less TP during WS's, to not worry about the last 25%. Fenrir.Velner said: » Bahamut.Justthetip said: » Which keep in mind I don't believe either is hard at this point and I don't think slapping on ho makes someone omega hard. We beat mboze v15 with a war instead of a drk so the tp limit isn't even needed right now. Maybe in next set to be safe because of hp stacking se gonna give them sure but currently you don't need a drk or bst to be v15 mboze. WAR can get just as much Subtle Blow (65) as DRK. . . so I don't understand this point about TP limiting being unnecessary. Because it definitely still is. DRK also has the minor benefit of Soul Enslavement giving you 30 seconds of safe full zerg time, which grants quite a bit of extra leeway elsewhere in the fight for DPS.
Asura.Geriond said: » DRK also has the minor benefit of Soul Enslavement giving you 30 seconds of safe full zerg time, which grants quite a bit of extra leeway elsewhere in the fight for DPS. Fenrir.Velner said: » Bahamut.Justthetip said: » Which keep in mind I don't believe either is hard at this point and I don't think slapping on ho makes someone omega hard. We beat mboze v15 with a war instead of a drk so the tp limit isn't even needed right now. Maybe in next set to be safe because of hp stacking se gonna give them sure but currently you don't need a drk or bst to be v15 mboze. WAR can get just as much Subtle Blow (65) as DRK. . . so I don't understand this point about TP limiting being unnecessary. Because it definitely still is. all jobs can get 75 subtle blow Asura.Littlelovin said: » Fenrir.Velner said: » Bahamut.Justthetip said: » Which keep in mind I don't believe either is hard at this point and I don't think slapping on ho makes someone omega hard. We beat mboze v15 with a war instead of a drk so the tp limit isn't even needed right now. Maybe in next set to be safe because of hp stacking se gonna give them sure but currently you don't need a drk or bst to be v15 mboze. WAR can get just as much Subtle Blow (65) as DRK. . . so I don't understand this point about TP limiting being unnecessary. Because it definitely still is. all jobs can get 75 subtle blow Oh, duh, I always forget about the Su. 5. But I'm not sure how viable either of those would be DPS wise on Mboze. That comes at a pricey DPS cost. 65 is more than sufficient, since DRK would be using Caladbolg Torcleaver (and WAR probably Chango or Naegling) for their DPS. Su5 would certainly help reduce tp moves, but would make the fight longer, which defeats the purpose of the strat.
FWIW, Ninja has Yurin, which is -10% TP Gain. Idk how productive a Savage Blade Ninja would be, but it is slashing damage and probably gets TP faster than DRK or WAR, but much lower white dps. If you could land Yurin, it might be another strategy. And Ninja gets so much native Subtle Blow, it needs not make any adjustments to its normal TP set. Bahamut.Justthetip said: » Fenrir.Velner said: » Bahamut.Justthetip said: » Which keep in mind I don't believe either is hard at this point and I don't think slapping on ho makes someone omega hard. We beat mboze v15 with a war instead of a drk so the tp limit isn't even needed right now. Maybe in next set to be safe because of hp stacking se gonna give them sure but currently you don't need a drk or bst to be v15 mboze. WAR can get just as much Subtle Blow (65) as DRK. . . so I don't understand this point about TP limiting being unnecessary. Because it definitely still is. Yes, saying we didn't bother using a Subtle Blow set instead of "we used WAR" does clear it up because a Subtle Blow/TP limit method is perfectly viable with either job. And, technically, the SB set up was never "necessary." It just takes a lot of the luck out of it. Asura.Iamaman said: » What about accuracy? I haven't done a ton of t3/t4 v15 fights outside of Bumba, but I know without considerable buffing, hitting Bumba at v15 is difficult. If their evasion scales up, will ML20 really be able to keep up even with buffs?
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Fenrir.Velner said: » Bahamut.Justthetip said: » Fenrir.Velner said: » Bahamut.Justthetip said: » Which keep in mind I don't believe either is hard at this point and I don't think slapping on ho makes someone omega hard. We beat mboze v15 with a war instead of a drk so the tp limit isn't even needed right now. Maybe in next set to be safe because of hp stacking se gonna give them sure but currently you don't need a drk or bst to be v15 mboze. WAR can get just as much Subtle Blow (65) as DRK. . . so I don't understand this point about TP limiting being unnecessary. Because it definitely still is. Yes, saying we didn't bother using a Subtle Blow set instead of "we used WAR" does clear it up because a Subtle Blow/TP limit method is perfectly viable with either job. And, technically, the SB set up was never "necessary." It just takes a lot of the luck out of it. Lakshmi.Buukki said: » FWIW, Ninja has Yurin, which is -10% TP Gain. Idk how productive a Savage Blade Ninja would be, but it is slashing damage and probably gets TP faster than DRK or WAR, but much lower white dps. If you could land Yurin, it might be another strategy. And Ninja gets so much native Subtle Blow, it needs not make any adjustments to its normal TP set. NIN can also use Migawari against Canopierce and afaik you can stand to only have NIN in range of Canopierce, but everyone still in range for Timber, which reduce the chance of being caught with pants down (not full HP :P) during Timber.
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SimonSes said: » Lakshmi.Buukki said: » FWIW, Ninja has Yurin, which is -10% TP Gain. Idk how productive a Savage Blade Ninja would be, but it is slashing damage and probably gets TP faster than DRK or WAR, but much lower white dps. If you could land Yurin, it might be another strategy. And Ninja gets so much native Subtle Blow, it needs not make any adjustments to its normal TP set. NIN can also use Migawari against Canopierce and afaik you can stand to only have NIN in range of Canopierce, but everyone still in range for Timber, which reduce the chance of being caught with pants down (not full HP :P) during Timber. Oh I guess the wiki does say that Ninja can block Canopierce with Migawari. Totally did not see that mentioned. That's pretty interesting. Can Ninja reliably land Yurin on Mboze? I might try it later, for science.
The problem with Ninja is that it gets limited access to Subtle Blow II gear, besides the Su5 and Mpaca Hose. Ninja on Dagon and Sherida Earring would have been helpful. And if you are using Savage Blade for damage, you won't be using Su5 (nor do I have one built). Which form of TP mitigation reduces more: Yurin's -10% or that extra 10% Subtle Blow II that DRK and WAR get? (or are they the same?) SimonSes said: » Lakshmi.Buukki said: » FWIW, Ninja has Yurin, which is -10% TP Gain. Idk how productive a Savage Blade Ninja would be, but it is slashing damage and probably gets TP faster than DRK or WAR, but much lower white dps. If you could land Yurin, it might be another strategy. And Ninja gets so much native Subtle Blow, it needs not make any adjustments to its normal TP set. NIN can also use Migawari against Canopierce and afaik you can stand to only have NIN in range of Canopierce, but everyone still in range for Timber, which reduce the chance of being caught with pants down (not full HP :P) during Timber. Timber is 10 yalms and Canopierce is 15 yalms so that is not viable. The NIN bit about Canopierce is quite intriguing, but Sakpata really makes building a Subtle Blow set for DRK pretty damn easy if you have access to a couple rarer items- and still very doable even without them.
Auspice with Ebers+1 piece: 25 SB1 (remember not to use Endark II, as it will overwrite Auspice) Sakpata Gauntlets: 8 SB1 Sakpata Leggings: 10 SB1 (after augments) Chirich Ring+1: 10 SB1 (could even drop Auspice completely if you can't/don't want to take a WHM to this NM, and add a 2nd Chirich+1 along with Bathy Choker+1 and Schere Earring to be 52/50, but that's more DPS loss) With that, you've capped Subtle Blow 1, (53). If you haven't augmented your Sakpata's Leggings yet, can drop those feet while Last Resort is up (and its only down for around 55 seconds for every 5 minutes with merits/ambu cape) for the Fallen Sollerets +3 to give +15 Subtle Blow 1 during Last Resort. Add to this Dagon Breastplate and Niqmaddu Ring, and now you've tapped on +15 Subtle Blow 2. |
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