I always thought it was mostly an ignorance thing. No one wants a Puppetmaster because they don't know how it works or what it's truly capable of. I've seen a couple of really good Puppetmasters over the years. But they're fewer and farther between than every other job out there.
And over the years, people have really started to build on the "lolPUP" mentality. Even Square-Enix seems to be in on it; just look at the job emote they gave it. The mage equipment they keep giving it doesn't help either.
Bottom line: People are just going to invite jobs they're more familiar with in any situation. And very, very few people are actually familar with Puppetmaster.
So What Is Up With The Anti-pup Movement?
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So what is up with the anti-pup movement?
Ragnarok.Jessikah said: » just look at the job emote they gave it. Ragnarok.Jessikah said: » I always thought it was mostly an ignorance thing. No one wants a Puppetmaster because they don't know how it works or what it's truly capable of. I've seen a couple of really good Puppetmasters over the years. But they're fewer and farther between than every other job out there. And over the years, people have really started to build on the "lolPUP" mentality. Even Square-Enix seems to be in on it; just look at the job emote they gave it. The mage equipment they keep giving it doesn't help either. Bottom line: People are just going to invite jobs they're more familiar with in any situation. And very, very few people are actually familar with Puppetmaster. You're right, it has absolutely nothing to do with PUP being noticeably worse than other jobs for most current non-solo content.
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Fenrir.Sylow said: » Ragnarok.Jessikah said: » I always thought it was mostly an ignorance thing. No one wants a Puppetmaster because they don't know how it works or what it's truly capable of. I've seen a couple of really good Puppetmasters over the years. But they're fewer and farther between than every other job out there. And over the years, people have really started to build on the "lolPUP" mentality. Even Square-Enix seems to be in on it; just look at the job emote they gave it. The mage equipment they keep giving it doesn't help either. Bottom line: People are just going to invite jobs they're more familiar with in any situation. And very, very few people are actually familar with Puppetmaster. You're right, it has absolutely nothing to do with PUP being noticeably worse than other jobs for most current non-solo content. Your PUP is lvl13.... your point is invalid. Learn the job before u can talk about what it is good for and what nor. Bismarck.Jonadriel said: » Your PUP is lvl13.... your point is invalid. Learn the job before u can talk about what it is good for and what nor.
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Yeah.. You really don't have to play a job to know its capacity. Just research it. I wouldn't say pup is THAT sub-standard of a DD job though,as many make it out to be.
I don't play with dolls and I don't play with people that do, but seriously it just has more to do with people not being familiar with jobs that aren't cookie cutter, and for the most part the pups you do come across are fairly lackluster.
I died at the Fupafighters part.
Odin.Eikechi said: » Yeah.. You really don't have to play a job to know its capacity. Just research it. I wouldn't say pup is THAT sub-standard of a DD job though,as many make it out to be. You have two candidates for a position with equivalent qualifications and identical interview performance. One graduated with a B average and the other with an A average. Who do you hire? I think for many other jobs it is valid to say that you can research a job and know it inside out but not for PUP.. It's just very different and you don't know how it works until you play it.
At least that's my opinnion after soloing PUP 0-75 and now being a bit of a noob again with all these new options. Puppetmaster is not one of those jobs that u can just reserch info, burn it in abyssea and expect to play it fine. That's why there are so many pups that suxs out there. That's my point.
Bismarck.Jonadriel said: » Puppetmaster is not one of those jobs that u can just reserch info, burn it in abyssea and expect to play it fine. That's why there are so many pups that suxs out there. That's my point. Sure, pup takes more to learn. Like 30 minutes maybe to get the tricks, unlike monk where you don't even have to think for example. That's a lot of time to learn the job.
Ramuh.Austar said: » Bismarck.Jonadriel said: » Puppetmaster is not one of those jobs that u can just reserch info, burn it in abyssea and expect to play it fine. That's why there are so many pups that suxs out there. That's my point. I don't a gree with that, u have to know the combinations of head and frames, u have to know the attachemnts and how they work, how to combine them and make maneuvors to trigger the puppets AI and then apply it on the different situations. Is not a job that goes engage, get TP and then hit WS.
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Phoenix.Sehachan said: » Sure, pup takes more to learn. Like 30 minutes maybe to get the tricks, unlike monk where you don't even have to think for example. That's a lot of time to learn the job. 30 minutes? ***, I was going to level PUP tomorrow but screw that. I don't have time for commitments like that.
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Bismarck.Jonadriel said: » Ramuh.Austar said: » Bismarck.Jonadriel said: » Puppetmaster is not one of those jobs that u can just reserch info, burn it in abyssea and expect to play it fine. That's why there are so many pups that suxs out there. That's my point. I don't a gree with that, u have to know the combinations of head and frames, u have to know the attachemnts and how they work, how to combine them and make maneuvors to trigger the puppets AI and then apply it on the different situations. Is not a job that goes engage, get TP and then hit WS. Ramuh.Austar said: » Bismarck.Jonadriel said: » Ramuh.Austar said: » Bismarck.Jonadriel said: » Puppetmaster is not one of those jobs that u can just reserch info, burn it in abyssea and expect to play it fine. That's why there are so many pups that suxs out there. That's my point. I don't a gree with that, u have to know the combinations of head and frames, u have to know the attachemnts and how they work, how to combine them and make maneuvors to trigger the puppets AI and then apply it on the different situations. Is not a job that goes engage, get TP and then hit WS. You mean there's a place where I can go, and get information about things in FFXI? Im sorry but after reading this entire thread its full of fail and a waste of time....
its like me saying I can do decent dmg on my pld in VW for prov watcher zerg... then I say I got a lvl 90 masa samurai thats pimped out gear wise.... If you had a choice what you picking? <insertlogichere> Pups will cry over their beloved job just like any other person and their "beloved" job. I always want to use my PLD but im not stupid enough to NOT change to ninja or SOMETHING to be a proc person just to get a group and win something. At the end of the day show me a pup that out performs drk samurai warrior mnk in a zerg situation and il believe it has some use other than " hey its sharpshot frame proc go get it!!" which comes up like 0.5% of the time in VW And we still wonder why there are so many below average players in FFXI...
Fenrir.Sylow said: » Phoenix.Sehachan said: » Sure, pup takes more to learn. Like 30 minutes maybe to get the tricks, unlike monk where you don't even have to think for example. That's a lot of time to learn the job. 30 minutes? ***, I was going to level PUP tomorrow but screw that. I don't have time for commitments like that. Ramuh.Austar said: » Bismarck.Jonadriel said: » Ramuh.Austar said: » Bismarck.Jonadriel said: » Puppetmaster is not one of those jobs that u can just reserch info, burn it in abyssea and expect to play it fine. That's why there are so many pups that suxs out there. That's my point. I don't a gree with that, u have to know the combinations of head and frames, u have to know the attachemnts and how they work, how to combine them and make maneuvors to trigger the puppets AI and then apply it on the different situations. Is not a job that goes engage, get TP and then hit WS. Ok, look up how u can make your puppet cast silence as first enfeble when fighting mobs that cast magic or look for how u can make it cast paralysis enfeble first when fighting mobs with high att speed etc. Bismarck.Jonadriel said: » Ok, look up how u can make your puppet cast silence as first enfeble when fighting mobs that cast magic or look for how u can make it cast paralysis enfeble first when fighting mobs with high att speed etc. :o How do you do that? Phoenix.Sehachan said: » Bismarck.Jonadriel said: » Your PUP is lvl13.... your point is invalid. Learn the job before u can talk about what it is good for and what nor. Because people who think they know what they are talking about and really don't shouldn't be trying to make an argument for/agaisnt the job. I have pup and have almost never brought it to VW...These mobs are getting pretty high level, and there's not nearly enough elemental capacity on an automaton to make it not only hold its own and deal damage at the same time. People don't invite pups because most pet procs are horridly slow, aside from Providence. Why doesn't SE make the current situation in providence the same for all VW? Carbuncle.Sambb said: » Im sorry but after reading this entire thread its full of fail and a waste of time.... its like me saying I can do decent dmg on my pld in VW for prov watcher zerg... then I say I got a lvl 90 masa samurai thats pimped out gear wise.... If you had a choice what you picking? <insertlogichere> Pups will cry over their beloved job just like any other person and their "beloved" job. I always want to use my PLD but im not stupid enough to NOT change to ninja or SOMETHING to be a proc person just to get a group and win something. At the end of the day show me a pup that out performs drk samurai warrior mnk in a zerg situation and il believe it has some use other than " hey its sharpshot frame proc go get it!!" which comes up like 0.5% of the time in VW I can show you my parser as PUP, i bet that won't even be enough since most ppl already got their mind made up about the puppetmaster job. each maneuver is tied to certain debuffs. have it active first and it will force cast that debuff. But this is subject to checks. You won't silence ninjas or brds, because they have no mp. It just won't work.
Bismarck.Jonadriel said: » Ramuh.Austar said: » Bismarck.Jonadriel said: » Ramuh.Austar said: » Bismarck.Jonadriel said: » Puppetmaster is not one of those jobs that u can just reserch info, burn it in abyssea and expect to play it fine. That's why there are so many pups that suxs out there. That's my point. I don't a gree with that, u have to know the combinations of head and frames, u have to know the attachemnts and how they work, how to combine them and make maneuvors to trigger the puppets AI and then apply it on the different situations. Is not a job that goes engage, get TP and then hit WS. Ok, look up how u can make your puppet cast silence as first enfeble when fighting mobs that cast magic or look for how u can make it cast paralysis enfeble first when fighting mobs with high att speed etc. Just look at the priority based on maneuvers. Bismarck.Jonadriel said: » I can show you my parser as PUP, i bet that won't even be enough since most ppl already got their mind made up about the puppetmaster job. Hint: the correct answer is the latter.
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Odin.Eikechi said: » each maneuver is tied to certain debuffs. have it active first and it will force cast that debuff. But this is subject to checks. You won't silence ninjas or brds, because they have no mp. It just won't work. Well yes I knew this but my pup sometimes casts silence on monsters that doesn't even use magic when I have wind maneuver up. I thought there was some trick that will make it only cast if the monster is a caster... Phoenix.Sehachan said: » Bismarck.Jonadriel said: » I can show you my parser as PUP, i bet that won't even be enough since most ppl already got their mind made up about the puppetmaster job. Hint: the correct answer is the latter. My COR vs. Bismarck:  COR is the best DD.
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