Marksmanship VS. Archery

Ok so I am planning on lvln RNG and have need some advice from some experienced RNGs. Which from your experience parses higher , lets say Hellfire +1 and Silver Bullets VS. E.Bow/V.Bow and Kabura arrows. From what I can tell those seem to be the best non relic combos for each side (if I am wrong please post what is better).

It seems to me that it is easier to get a large boost in AGI compared to getting the same boost from STR (such as S. Kote and Hachi feet) . So I would think that since AGI is the main MOD. for all the Marksmanship WS that matter that this would make it parse higher ?

Last reason I need to know is because I am unsure as to what would be the best Augments to put on my Anwig Salade and just what gear to focus on period for end game.

One last thing please dont post if you have not lvld RNG. I want as much real info as possible. Thanks in advance and sorry for the lengthy post.

Basically it comes down to two things.

1) Are you going to benefit from being out of AoE range?
2) Are you taking hate a lot?

If you said yes to #1, you use Bow.

If you said yes to #2, use gun.

That being said, for raw power, Hellfire+1 wins big time. Ideal for merits where you're allowed to take hate and won't die instantly.

STR STR STR STR STR!
Str will almost alllllways bet better then agi by a long shot.
DONT GET AGI! You need what...3-4 agi to make 1 dmg more in a ws...which really isnt worth it considering fstr2.

WARNING: Lost post incoming.

I'm a career RNG personally, in the sense that it's my favourite job and the one I play the most. This means I prioritise making it top drawer in damage output, usually disgregarding my safety in the process. That's how I believe the job should be played, because with the right approach, Ranger can easily become one of, if not the best, damage dealers. No other job can compare in terms of consistency, as a Ranger's damage is consistent on monsters of various monsters and resistances. The only monsters we really struggle to throw top end damage on are skeletons, and there aren't really many circumstances where a 75 RNG would be fighting them.

However, Ranger is an expensive job if you go the extra distance. A lot of people underestimate how much gil is required and end up compromising. This is fine, and should be expected. Ammunition alone will cost you a bundle.

Let me get Enternius's post out of the way...



I'm not sure I fully understand the point. On pretty much any monster, TP moves will hit you at the Gun or Bow sweet spot.



Not sure I understand the point of this, either; I presume it's either using a gun will result in less hate, or because you're pulling loads of hate anyway you should use a gun. I'm assuming you mean the latter, but correct me if I'm wrong.

Asides from experience parties, hate on Ranger shouldn't be a concern. With time and experience, you'll get an idea of your limits and not break them. The only time I personally pull hate off designated tanks during events is when I think it's smart to Berserk, Warcry, Flashy Shot, Double Minuet Slug Shot Omega. Mega damage but I know full well it'll be the death of me. Asides from intentionally pulling hate, it shouldn't really happen.

Now, your specific question depends entirely on the sort of player you are. Since you bought them up, let's use your two examples. Vali's Bow with Kabura Arrows is the best non-relic Archery setup, and Hellfire +1 with Silver Bullets is the best non-relic Marksmanship setup (You could argue that technically a Culverin +1 with a Heavy Shell is the best setup, but it's unrealistic to expect a Ranger to TP with this gun. It's usually reserved more for /SAM zergs.)

Both setups will produce stunning results with the appropriate effort made in gear and repeated use of the optimal ammunition. Archery will generally produce smaller figures compared directly to marksmanship, most noticeable in the actual ranged attacks. There is a clear difference between a Silver Bullet hitting and a Kabura Arrow; you don't need a parser to notice them. However, on weapon skills, Sidewinder is generally reknowned for producing the higher numbers, because of the fact the *** of STR you should be piling onto your weapon skills is being used in the modifier. In terms of weapon skill damage, this is the only difference between the two. The rest depends on your setup and gear.

As Ludoggy said, STR is a must for WS's. Never prioritise Agility over STR or Ranged Attack for weapon skills. The order of priority for gearing both Archery or Marksmanship weapon skills should be:

STR > Ranged Attack > AGI > Ranged Accuracy.

On Sidewinder and Slug Shot, if your base accuracy (Read: TP accuracy) isn't capped, you might want to macro in some ranged accuracy. Generally, however, Ranger should not have much of a problem landing these weapon skills. They are not as inaccurate as the urban myths imply with a decent setup.

Any Ranger will tell you that Marksmanship will win overall in terms of damage. The only way to best a Hellfire +1 & Silver Bullets Ranger is with a Yoichinoyumi (or an Annihilator, but they're both Marksmanship.) With identical setups in terms of base STR (same race), merits, skill levels and gear, a Hellfire +1 will outparse a Vali's Bow.

Personally, I go for Hellfire +1 and Silver Bullets. The only time I use my Vali's Bow, sadly, is in Dynamis, where hate flies around a load and monsters generally seem to know how to gut a Ranger (We only really do dreamlands, though. In cities I Hellfire +1 it up.) This brings in the subject of moderation again, and knowing when not to shoot that extra arrow. This is a skill you will pickup with practise, so don't worry if you suffer a few deaths along the way.

In terms of pure damage, Hellfire +1 with Silver Bullets will outperform a Vali's with Kabura. However, Sidewinder is generally more eratic, but occasionally powerful, due to the STR modifier. This STR modifier is not on Marksmanship weapon skills, but you should still stack on as much STR as you can.

Conclusion:

Whichever you choose, is not a wrong choice. You will still own whether you opt for Vali's or Hellfire. It's down to personal preference and what you personally prefer seeing your character use. Personally, I think the Archery animations are better on Mithra than Marksmanship. The trouble is, I levelled Ranger after Corsair, meaning I handily had 8/8 Marksmanship merits for Ranger. As my damage was already "Wow!" when I got to 75, I didn't really bother aiming for Archery. I have a Faith Torque for Marksmanship as well (Which I also inherited from Corsair), and no Hope Torque. These are the two factors that decided I would go for Marksmanship full time. I'm generally okay for money as I have Smithing at 100, which means cash wasn't an issue to me. It may be to you, I don't know; it is to some and I appreciate that.

Faith Torque or Hope Torque is not essential to your setup; they are only really optimum when your accuracy is capped with them equipped. The additional accuracy from the Peacock Charm may be more worth it if you're missing a load. If your accuracy is more or less perfect (~95%) with the Torque on, then continue using them, as they are increasing your damage output.

If you like, I can make two item sets to show you the general idea of a decent end game Ranger (one for TPing, one for WSing.) My Ranger isn't perfect, but it's only missing Salvage pieces and a relic. Asides from that it's a near optimal build. It might be good for some pointers.

--

The most important thing about RNG is, just enjoy it. It's designed to be a "OMGWTF I JUST DID 9000" job, and it's designed to rip things apart. You'll do this easier than most, but if you really go the distance, you will rip anything that stands in your way a new butthole.

Sorry for the long post. As you can tell, I am fond of Ranger.

tl;dr: RNG rules!

/em highfives Wooooooooodum

I have only just recently finished getting ranger to 75 so I cannot say too much about end lvl besides that Hellfire +1 is the higher damage according to some ranger buddies.

While lvling up I noticed that with my gear and setup my using War bow+1 did about as much damage or more, as any gun I could buy 50-70. I did the comparisons. After lvl 70 I got a Shigeto bow and did not bother to make any comparisons, just finished the lvling. I went ahead and used bow and arrow most of the way up to lvl 75, when I was pulling I used xbow for speed. I used guns from time to time but ofcourse I noticed with that, I was spending more gil to do the same damage.

So in short.. bullets cost more and do the same damage probably until lvl 70-71 from my recent experience, same gear per weapon.

Str is a better damage modifier than agi for bow and gun ws.

I personally leveled RNG mostly on Archery but I kept marksmanship at proper skill level and maxed both merits. I just didn't like how slow Guns were. Once I have my extra Gil I'll get me a Hellfire +1.

Just want to say thanks for the posts so far. Secondly to answer a few questions , 1 money is not a concern of mine.I knew goin in this was goin to cost a bit to get it to where I want it. Like you sad Woooodum , when I decided to lvl this job , I was looking at it as a suicide job , generally not caring weather I am alive or not at the end and more about weather or not whatever I hit is defly dead.

One thing I did not mention that I should have is that I am only goin to merit either Archery or Marksmanship (due to the fact that SE still hates us all and limits us to only fully meriting 2 weapon categories).I want to be fully merited in whichever I choose before I continue to lvl it (currently 37).

Last thing is about the Anwig Salade , just want to know what is prolly the best Augments. Thanks again.

I levelled to 75 using Vali's Bow, and I would say this exact thing to anyone else levelling. There isn't a noticeable difference from 55+ with a gun than a bow; and because of the nature of levelling and not having amazing gear or merits, you'll be missing whilst levelling too. This means it's more economic to use arrows, simply because you'll be producing more or less the same damage for less of the cost.

A gun will outperform a bow on Colibri still, as Silver Bullets can be used at those levels. However, unless you're fortunate enough to be staticing with a Bard or Corsair, it would generally be more efficient financially to focus on Archery. At 70+, the gear for Ranger really starts to come into its own. As Hellfire +1 is level 70, I would suggest any Ranger thinking of making the transition does so here. From this point forth, Hellfire +1 > Vali's Bow, unless you merit Archery 8/8 and have at Marksmanship 0/0.

I tried Augmenting my Hellfire +1 and got +3 Lightning resistance. Good for Khimaira, useless for everything else. But until I finish Annihilator, I don't see myself selling it.



This is a good summary, I wish I'd read it before I wrote this post. <.<

I haven't personally finished the Moogle missions, so I'm not fully aware what augments are available. Is there a list on Wiki somewhere I could look at? I can decide which I would choose if I were going for a Ranger piece from that list.

If you were augmenting the hat for ranger (which I will when I get one) I would get STR+4 and AGI+4 mods. I actually am getting ranger + thf aug and going STR+4 and Dex+4.

Also I hardly ever died on ranger lvling up. You do not have to see it as a suicide job. If you are using a high damage weapon like bow or gun you should be ending fights and making sure you dont overkill too much. That way you wont die form WS. Also if you are pulling than your Xbow ws doesnt need to come out in the end for you to survive becuaue the WS damage will be weak, with this you are able to take off before the mob is dead for the next pull.

Gil is not an issue to me either but economics...

Yea guns are slow.

Have fun^

I pulled with a Loxley Bow once, that was epic. I'll never get over how damn fast that bow is. Certainly useless outside of pulling, claiming and skilling up, but it's still fun to switch to it now and then during Dynamis and laugh at myself for a few minutes.

In answer to Wooooodum , yes , if you type Anwig Salade in to the search the Augs should eb at the bottom of the page. I would guess that Zoey is most likey right from what I know about RNG WS and just WS in general.

A lot goes into
Marksmanship VS. Archery

Race? I'm Tarutaru I can use both and have to only focus on STR boost.

But, me myself like Archery more.

I am on the larger side lol , I am a Galka so , but it seems that in any case STR will be the main thing I will be spending money on (aside from Ammo).

Looking at the available augments and contemplating what's available elsewhere, I think:

STR+4 Weapon Skill Accuracy +15

and

AGI+4 Increases weapon skill damage (+2%)

Are clear cut winners for RNG. The added Snapshot would be useful, but 3% isn't really that big an increase; certainly not something I'd warrant sacrificing either of the above two for.

Ok the STR+4 and WS Acc are clear wins , but the only thing I was wondering about is this. As far as I know is there any other Helm that offers 10 RACC and 5 RATK ? Seems that would give me a very decent WS head and possibly the best TP head ?

I went with these Augemnts instead. I felt they were the best 2 for me overall.

As a RNG, you should keep both marksmanship and archery lvled. Personally, I prefer Archery, and I ended up going 8/8 on it.

Completely missed those augments, I wonder how that happened. In that case, yes, I would choose Ranged Accuracy +10 and Ranged Attack +5 instead.

Here is my Marksmanship TPing setup:

http://www.ffxiah.com/item_sets.php?id=56328

I will make the following changes over time:

Dusk Trousers +1 with Skadi's Chausses (Don't have time or the will for Salvage at the moment)
Scouts Socks with the Scout's Socks +1 version (Waiting on the -1 drop from Qufim)
Scout's Belt with Bucaneer's Belt (The difference is marginal, so I'm better spending my ichor)
Hunter's Beret +1 with Zha'Go's Barbut

The last is really hard to obtain, but I've been working on soloing the pop item. Taking a very long time on my own, but I'll get there eventually. Given the augments on the Anwig Salade, though, I might forget all about them. The augments we collectively chose would blow that piece into the ground for TPing and WSing, just because of how much easier it is to obtain.

And obviously replacing the Hellfire +1 with This Beast.

Asides from those changes, I'm happy with this set. It's certainly above average and puts me above the majority of Rangers on our server, but it's also not perfect.

Though the STR/WSACC RACC/RATK head is an excellent option to fulltime if you don't have the Barbut.

It's difficult to do this whilst levelling though, mainly because of the cost factor. I agree, though, and I would've made sure to keep mine capped as I went along. Marksmanship was already capped to a 75 COR's level, though, so I didn't need to bother until about 69ish.

The absolute worst item to get, in my opinion. Exceptional piece, but damn difficult to obtain. Unless you're in a HNMLS, I don't see how anyone can realistically farm these pops. I've been working on soloing them for nearly a month and haven't built a full set yet. I have just got Crimson Cuisses, though, so maybe it'll be a little easier now.

PS. My interest in the game has only recently re-ignited though so by a month, I sort of mean I've been going here and there for a month.

Gnadbhod's Helm poses a similar problem. There's no denying it's a pain in the *** to get, but there's also no denying it's the best-in-slot.

Agreed, and I have my eyes on it. As with everything else, I won't stop working towards it until I get it, even if it's the death of me.

In response to this , I plan to have both capped. Marksmanship is already around 220 ish and Archery is somehwere around 160. I will only end up meriting 1 though and from the looks of things this will most likey be Marksmanship. This job will primarily be another end game DD job for me so I am looking for highest damage out put.

I'm not a RDM, but I do assist farming the NMs with SMN on occasion. Usually it's myself, and two RDM/NIN friends. Can get all of them done with this setup, pretty sure RDM/NIN can solo most if not all of them, it just takes forever, and some of them do some god-awful things. Maybe get some friends to assist you? :s

I'll try with W.Legs now, it might've been the missing piece of the jigsaw. If not, then I'll call on favours, since I know most people wouldn't want to help because it's so time consuming!

Ahaha, yeah. I should note both RDMs had wlegs. Like I said, I was basically there to ZZZ and hit the BP button, and occasionally pay attention because of evil NMs like the one that switches between Phys damage absorption to magic damage. D: It didn't help that they like farming these at around 3am when I'm mostly dead. ; -;