Marksmanship VS. Archery

One last question and then I think I will have most of the info I need. S.Kote VS BFG on WS?

Blood Finger Gauntlets. Less accuracy but more punch.

I disagree on that point. TPing in BFG is fine, but I WS in S.Kotes. I have yet to come across a single mob in the game where +15 agi on the base WS dmg from the kotes ever outweighed the defence piercing from +12 rng attk, yes even on lolboob. This is even more noticable on the non-traditional WS's such as Empyreal arrow, Detonator, or Heavy Shot.

The +15 AGI from Kotes will provide a roughly 1% damage boost to Weapon skills on Archery, and slightly higher for Marksmanship. The AGI modifier doesn't increase weapon skills more than a good helping of Ranged Attack will.

Seiryu's Kote are exceptional if your accuracy isn't at or near the cap; however, if it is, then Gauntlets are a better choice, statistically.

Although I used to use Kote on Marksmanship weapon skill, as that's the AGI modifier sorted on one slot.

1% would be neglible, and hard to notice. I typcially notice a 100-150 damage difference on WS's between the two pieces of gear on sky guards/kirin using Slug Shot. And the lower the mobs vit/def/lvl the difference is even more apparent. Numbers don't lie. If you like stacking rng atkk for your hand slot on WS's, hey go for it. If you like epeen on them, need to dust off the kotes for that WS macro.

Could you post the circumstances surrounding these weapon skills, your gear setup, the buffs you had in effect and any food on at the time? Post some examples of damage if possible please.

Nice trick on throwing the entire burden of proof in my corner^^ Would you like my dental records, Kaiser card, SSN# too? lol..

Circumstances, are rather irrelevant when you're not the attack cap.

Whether you have, say a buff like warcry with Kotes on or not, Kotes WS will still be higher. Same goes for food or COR/BRD buffs. I'm not going to list every possible variable, as we both know... there's quite a bit on RNG, especially with distance modded into the damage equations. But, just like you, I am a career RNG and simply stating the noticable differences in damage on WS's. If you disagree, fine.

This also doesn't include the whole accuracy argument either. When fighting end-game mobs, acc > all. Slugshot does 0 damage when it misses, again putting Kotes > BFG's on WS's.

IF you happen to be at the attack cap, Kotes hands down. Rng attack obviously does nothing.

You have to keep in mind, sometimes there are no absolutes. When not at the attack cap, Agi vs Rng attk varies depending on how much is there. +1 Rng attk doesn't equal the end damage on WS against +1 Agi. Take another case of +3 Rng attk vs +1 Agi. The Rng attk piece will perform better. Again amounts of said stats can be the factor. Think back to when you leveled. AF RNG feet, +4 Agi, performed equivalent to the NQ War boots with +5 Rng attk on exp/high def mobs for WS. BUT it fell short on the HQ version, +6 Rng attk > +4 Agi. BFG's cream the relic hands, +12 Rng attk > +5 Agi, but fall short against S.Kotes, hands down. +15 Agi > +12 Rng attk.

They're not. Circumstances are never irrelevant. In this case, I'm asking for the circumstances of these weapon skills that are defying everythin I know about the mechanics and maths of Ranger damage calculation.



Just for the weapon skills on gods that are giving you 100-150 difference with / without Kotes. I don't give a rat's penis ***about anything else; just what you had at the time of those weapon skills. I have to figure them in to my calculations or they'll be wrong.



In my calculations I always calculate including the sweet spot bonus, as there isn't really an excuse not to stand at the sweet spot for weapon skills.



I don't disagree; I disagree with your proof. Everything I know about Ranger and how it works is being rendered obsolete by your claim. Hence me being very specific on wanting some information to do some maths with. You can't simply say, "I notice this, because", in a thread of this nature and not expect to be asked for some facts.



Slug Shot does 0 damage when it misses on any monster. I believe I already touched on the subject of missing weapon skills, and how Seiryu's Kote are better for weapon skills if your accuracy is at cap. I agree; when accuracy is uncapped, Seiryu's Kote are better. However most Rangers should not have a trouble with accuracy, even on sky gods.



Similarly to melee attacks, there is no cap to attack on Ranger weapon skills. Also, even if there was, the oodles of STR gear being equipped would decrease the chances of reaching the ranged attack cap.



Agreed, however, I am not claiming any absolutes. I'm talking about the weapon skills on gods where you're noticing these differences. Nothing more. Our discussion has evolved from Kote Vs BFG into your weapon skills and how you're noticing the difference, and with what setup and circumstances.



You just said there are no absolutes, but this is a contradicting point. Depending on the rest of your gear, the bigger than sign may or may not flip over. Hence why I am asking for circumstances.



Excuse me? I'm asking for the sake of the debate, because we clearly have opposing views. In order to understand your view and better my picture, I'm asking for circumstances, gear sets, etc.

Seriously, if it's too much to ask for that you defend your point, stop posting and leave this discussion to people who will.

Kirin, 1050 Detonator, /war zerk'd wc'd + flashy shot, sole sushi w/ Kotes. Kirin, 940 Detonator, same mods but BFG's. Kirin was not angon'd, def down'd nor dia'd. There was no Brd or Cor. I have no screenshots. This is going off a memory, shoot it down if you will.

Sky dolls for Despot pops. 1700's vs 1600's. Kotes > BFG's.

Similiar results on Suzaku / Seiryu. Usually hitting 1k's with, 900's w/o.

Again off of memory, Byakko 750ish Slugs vs 680 or so? Kinda vague.

Kind of have to to be honest if you're going off your memory, but I'll use what you posted anyway for the sake of it.

PS. Detonator?

With differences that high, at such low damage weapon skills, there is no way it's the Kotes. Simple as that, but I will present some maths to prove it.

Some item sets would be helpful.

Yes, I do wish they were higher but my current sky shell seems to that Bio 2'ing all mobs is far more effective than lowering it's def. while 10 melee's beat on it. Also the BLM party has a better use for the BRD's than the DD's do, even though they have a RDM and COR already.

/Facepalm

I did get a 1.4k Det on Kirin with a DRG's angon. That wasn't too shabby.

Little late to the party on this one, heh, but you weren't looking at either point correctly.

I know, they both have a "sweet spot" but it's the positioning of them that I'm talking about.

Archery's max sweet spot is 9.5 feet. What that means is, for any 10 foot AoE (Almost every AoE you're likely to encounter short of LV90~ HNMs) you can just step a half of a foot back and get like a 5% decrease in damage. If you were 10 feet away with gun, there would be no point because you'd do like 80% and should just switch to bow at that time.

Likewise, Gun's minimum sweet spot is 4.5 feet. If you were to take hate the mob (Greater Colibri, in this case) would close to 3.4 feet.
Again, that's just 1 foot of difference and you lose about 6~7% of your damage. What I'm saying is, if you take hate a lot, you will be in melee range a lot and gun does not suffer nearly as much as Bow in that respect.

I didn't mean "low" in the personal sense that your weapon skills were weak, because without buffs, I struggle to break 1k on Sky gods too. I meant it in the sense that with a smaller weapon skill, you're getting a smaller boost in % from the +15 AGI on the Kote.

By your theory, the Kotes are giving you roughly a 150 damage increase, calculated in with a 600 weapon skill. That'd imply you're gaining approximately a 35% boost on your weapon skills from +15 AGI.

That's just not true.

As far as "Sets" I removed them since I change gears out quite a bit depending on Lvl of mobs vs Rnc acc, etc. The gears you're probably interested are the WS pieces I use. Wyvern helm, K.Osode, S.Kotes, War Brais +1, Scout's socks, Scout's belt, Anemit +1, Drone Earrings x 2 ( genin if /nin but I never go /nin to sky), Qiqirn collar, and for sky guards usually behemoth rings +1 x 2.

I have all the merits needed and very strong gears and still all the ranger of Vanadiel on forums seems to do better damage or need way less racc than me. It will always be a mystery!

Very productive contribution.

If my ws's were 600's I'd shoot myself :D ( Boob doesn't count!) Granted we're ballparking things, but 900 and 1k is 11% diff. At 15 Agi > over 0 base generated, it's not THAT unreasonable.

Very productive contribution.

Read the rest of the thread, and tell me I'm not contributing productively to this discussion.

It was a joke. Calm down.

Very productive indeed, just pointing out that many people seems to give numbers that are very hard to explain and they rarely put an explanation with it.

The original point I was making is the increase from AGI+15 is dependant on the rest of your gear, given that the increase is % on your damage, and not some calculation along the way.

This is why I wanted to know your attack boosts, buffs, gear, etc, so that I could do some maths for myself and figure out either what's wrong in yours or my point.

It could be that the Kote don't increase damage (as opposed to BFG) until your base damage reaches a certain point, at which point the Kotes, with a bigger figure to proportionately increase the damage of, then are more beneficial for damage output than BFG. This seems to be the case, and I'll test it in a couple of days time when I'm off work and find out for sure.

This is based off the fact I am fairly positive Ranged Attack is a flat increase to damage, whereas the modiifers are naturally a percentage calculated somewhere along the lines of a weapon skill.

The general mood and open mindedness of our discussion is pleasing; one which your post did nothing to contribute to.

You are so freaking annoying Wooooodum. I am deeply and sincerely sorry it was not a contribution to your current conversation. I hope you feel way better now that you told me it was not productive.

I'm annoying for wanting a good discussion? One which we were having, and you saw your place to come post in. Fair enough; that's your entitlement. Just don't be surprised if you post deliberately with the intention of not contributing and get called out on it.

And if you posted your view and a good argument to go with it that me and Seraphita could discuss, I wouldn't mind being called annoying. Otherwise, get the *** out our thread and go troll in some thread that doesn't have a good debate going.

Ok mister internet forum police now I will always wait for a 2 people conversation to be over before I post if I want to state a point that is not directly being discussed by the 2 people in question. If I do not wait then I will be prepared to have you pointing out the obvious.

Ranged attack is not a flat increase in damage. It's amount of your base damage that pierces the enemie's def/vit.

I'm simply asking you to contribute to the discussion or leave, that's all. This is a thread with positive, constructive discussion and you've made your intentions not to join in clear.

The flame core was made so you had somewhere to troll; this thread is not it.