Automaton Research Thread

Eorzea Time
 
 
 
Language: JP EN FR DE
users online
Forum » FFXI » Jobs » Puppet Master » Automaton Research Thread
Automaton Research Thread
First Page 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9
Offline
Posts: 1113
By Ruaumoko 2015-08-05 23:16:24
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Quetzalcoatl.Trulusia said: »
Phoenix.Capuchin said: »
Ruaumoko said: »
Unfortunately Pet: Haste and Pet: Damage Taken-% share the same augment slot on Duskorb Stones and since I'm a skinflint I cannot be bothered to make a set for both. Besides, I find my VE tanking or in danger of taking pretty big damage quite often. It's therefore good to have a set that makes it near-unkillable.

I think the new August update attachments makes gearing for full Pet DT- a lot less important now. Tier IV Auto-Repair kit and Armor Plate, tier III Shock Absorber... it's really, really, really getting hard to kill VE. Especially with recent slashed Repair timer (which I've merited 5/5 too). I think a capped automaton gear haste set with a good bit of acc (or at least heavier automaton haste) is probably more useful in the vast majority of situations, while adding in DT pieces where you can (Anwig Salade DT-10%/Haste +5% is nice, Handler's Earring/+1, Shepherd's Chain, etc.)

Of course, the problem in all scenarios is that no matter how you gear it's still quite difficult to hold hate over something like a strong BST pet... What we REALLY need is better automaton enmity tools.

The problem is that Armor plates don't do ***against magic damage, and that's what is going to wreck your auto 99% of the time anyway. I don't even use VE for tanking much anymore. No reason to use Auto to tank unless you need a real tank, and in that case you're almost certainly worried more about magic damage. SoulSoother/Harle is my go to magic tank. Also pretty damn good at holding hate somehow.
True. Good point about magic damage. However, it is worth mentioning that the Mana Jammer IV we got this update is x5 Water Capacity and that is exactly what the Valoredge has with the 100 job point gift. It might mitigate it quite a bit.
 Phoenix.Capuchin
Offline
Server: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
user: Anza
Posts: 2143
By Phoenix.Capuchin 2015-08-06 01:39:27
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Quetzalcoatl.Trulusia said: »
The problem is that Armor plates don't do ***against magic damage, and that's what is going to wreck your auto 99% of the time anyway. I don't even use VE for tanking much anymore. No reason to use Auto to tank unless you need a real tank, and in that case you're almost certainly worried more about magic damage. SoulSoother/Harle is my go to magic tank. Also pretty damn good at holding hate somehow.

I do mean using VE as a "real tank". It's plenty sturdy enough to survive, and even handling major magic damage is doable (even more now with the new attachments and recent repair changes). But if you're playing with actual decent DDs (including BST pets), I just don't have much confidence VE can actually hold hate even with both Strobes. How are the rest of you doing it, if you're doing it at all?

Switching gears a little bit, has anyone done serious testing with Spiritreaver since all of the new attachments, changes to Ice Makers, addition of Amplifier I and II, and some decent automaton nuking gear? Especially since we're in an era that's pretty strong for nukers (players) and MBs, I'm a little curious if we're not overlooking some decent potential.

Sharpshot is about as weak as it's ever been, VE is way more interesting but has some flaws as noted above, Soulsoother is kinda irrelevant with the rise of trusts, Stormwaker has its niche for pretty good solo/lowman support... but I don't know that Spiritreaver has really even the attention to fairly tell whether it's currently any good. (sorry Harlequin, for not even mentioning you)
 Sylph.Safiyyah
Offline
Server: Sylph
Game: FFXI
user: Safiyyah
Posts: 1119
By Sylph.Safiyyah 2015-08-06 11:42:09
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Phoenix.Capuchin said: »
Ruaumoko said: »
Unfortunately Pet: Haste and Pet: Damage Taken-% share the same augment slot on Duskorb Stones and since I'm a skinflint I cannot be bothered to make a set for both. Besides, I find my VE tanking or in danger of taking pretty big damage quite often. It's therefore good to have a set that makes it near-unkillable.

I think the new August update attachments makes gearing for full Pet DT- a lot less important now. Tier IV Auto-Repair kit and Armor Plate, tier III Shock Absorber... it's really, really, really getting hard to kill VE. Especially with recent slashed Repair timer (which I've merited 5/5 too). I think a capped automaton gear haste set with a good bit of acc (or at least heavier automaton haste) is probably more useful in the vast majority of situations, while adding in DT pieces where you can (Anwig Salade DT-10%/Haste +5% is nice, Handler's Earring/+1, Shepherd's Chain, etc.)

Of course, the problem in all scenarios is that no matter how you gear it's still quite difficult to hold hate over something like a strong BST pet... What we REALLY need is better automaton enmity tools.

How well do our pets team up with BST pets as a tank? I was thinking about gearing up my VE towards tanking using the following setup:

ItemSet 336677

and updating my wife's BST as well. Or is it better to do VE and just focus on damage?
 Quetzalcoatl.Trulusia
Offline
Server: Quetzalcoatl
Game: FFXI
user: Trulusia
Posts: 1117
By Quetzalcoatl.Trulusia 2015-08-06 13:25:39
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Sylph.Safiyyah said: »
Phoenix.Capuchin said: »
Ruaumoko said: »
Unfortunately Pet: Haste and Pet: Damage Taken-% share the same augment slot on Duskorb Stones and since I'm a skinflint I cannot be bothered to make a set for both. Besides, I find my VE tanking or in danger of taking pretty big damage quite often. It's therefore good to have a set that makes it near-unkillable.

I think the new August update attachments makes gearing for full Pet DT- a lot less important now. Tier IV Auto-Repair kit and Armor Plate, tier III Shock Absorber... it's really, really, really getting hard to kill VE. Especially with recent slashed Repair timer (which I've merited 5/5 too). I think a capped automaton gear haste set with a good bit of acc (or at least heavier automaton haste) is probably more useful in the vast majority of situations, while adding in DT pieces where you can (Anwig Salade DT-10%/Haste +5% is nice, Handler's Earring/+1, Shepherd's Chain, etc.)

Of course, the problem in all scenarios is that no matter how you gear it's still quite difficult to hold hate over something like a strong BST pet... What we REALLY need is better automaton enmity tools.

How well do our pets team up with BST pets as a tank? I was thinking about gearing up my VE towards tanking using the following setup:

ItemSet 336677

and updating my wife's BST as well. Or is it better to do VE and just focus on damage?

Your tanking set looks like mine, but I use Nibiru Santi. Depending on how Midnight's can be augmented and how the maneuver effect works, those might be the only weapon we need.

I've tried a bunch of different ***to hold hate, and basically what I have settled into is using Soulsouther+Harle and cure cheating Cure IV like a mofo. I throw in both strobes and mana converter when I need it to keep the machine rolling. I like to sub SCH for sublimation and regen, and use role reversal to refill MP. Throw in the job points that restore MP when you use repair, and you can keep MP up on that little auto's shitty mp pool for a remarkably long time. This is how I tank Plouton, and generally so long as I A. Don't run out of oil(happened once >.>) and B. Don't get boned on having curse land right before I use repair, Harle doesn't die and holds hate pretty well. Namely, towards the end of the fight where damage isn't going in quite as fast as the start.

I TRY to keep up Light(ARKs and Damage Gauger[pretty much have to use it for cure cheating]) Fire and a Water. The downside to using Soul head is that Benediction sucks in pet groups.
 Phoenix.Capuchin
Offline
Server: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
user: Anza
Posts: 2143
By Phoenix.Capuchin 2015-08-06 13:38:39
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Sylph.Safiyyah said: »
How well do our pets team up with BST pets as a tank?

If the BSTs are actually good, their pets (especially Randy) will rip hate right off your VE in no time. This to me is the biggest issue of VE tanking, if the puppet held hate it would be practically unkillable. Perhaps some strobe adjustments, a Strobe III, maybe an reduce enmity loss when taking damage effect on VE... there are ways to fix this that aren't too complicated, they just don't exist today. Trulusia's HarleSoother ideas might be a better way to actually hold hate than attempting to do it on VE.

DD-spec VE is looking better and better with the new attachments though. You probably won't beat a good BST pet, but gearing for it is at least non-trivial damage contribution. I'd wager VE might be straight up better than SS for DD now, even if SS is standing in melee range (and has the added bonus of being far sturdier).

I intend to play around with Spiritreaver too, seems like it has been ignored though perhaps more viable now with MBs, new attachments, etc. Tossed together the below set this morning (surely could improve, but it's what I had that could help nukes), will play with it later...
ItemSet 336805
 Quetzalcoatl.Trulusia
Offline
Server: Quetzalcoatl
Game: FFXI
user: Trulusia
Posts: 1117
By Quetzalcoatl.Trulusia 2015-08-06 13:55:48
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Phoenix.Capuchin said: »
I intend to play around with Spiritreaver too, seems like it has been ignored though perhaps more viable now with MBs, new attachments, etc. Tossed together the below set this morning (surely could improve, but it's what I had that could help nukes), will play with it later...
ItemSet 336805

Myself and some other people tried to use Spiritreaver after they released Amplifier. The only problem is that Amplifier DOESN'T *** WORK. I heard someone was able to occasionally force it by only throwing their pet at something after the skillchain was starting and just hoping the stupid thing didn't cast the wrong spell.

Other than that, the amount of time between casts, the frequency with which it would cast worthless spells and it's crappy magic accuracy was pretty much why we didn't use it. Does Amplifier II actually change the auto's spellcasting so that it will actually try to magic burst, or is it still a luck game? Or did anyone figure out how to make it cast properly to magic burst?
 Sylph.Safiyyah
Offline
Server: Sylph
Game: FFXI
user: Safiyyah
Posts: 1119
By Sylph.Safiyyah 2015-08-06 17:01:25
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Phoenix.Capuchin said: »
Sylph.Safiyyah said: »
How well do our pets team up with BST pets as a tank?

If the BSTs are actually good, their pets (especially Randy) will rip hate right off your VE in no time. This to me is the biggest issue of VE tanking, if the puppet held hate it would be practically unkillable. Perhaps some strobe adjustments, a Strobe III, maybe an reduce enmity loss when taking damage effect on VE... there are ways to fix this that aren't too complicated, they just don't exist today. Trulusia's HarleSoother ideas might be a better way to actually hold hate than attempting to do it on VE.

DD-spec VE is looking better and better with the new attachments though. You probably won't beat a good BST pet, but gearing for it is at least non-trivial damage contribution. I'd wager VE might be straight up better than SS for DD now, even if SS is standing in melee range (and has the added bonus of being far sturdier).

I intend to play around with Spiritreaver too, seems like it has been ignored though perhaps more viable now with MBs, new attachments, etc. Tossed together the below set this morning (surely could improve, but it's what I had that could help nukes), will play with it later...
ItemSet 336805

Maybe what I'll do is use the above set if I need to stack DT, and this set:

ItemSet 336818

for most stuff.

As far as Spiritreaver, I used him a couple of weeks ago to do Insidio (RUN AF1 quest orobon). He still sucks. He did do one massive magic burst but the AI isn't set up to take advantage of MB's so it's an exercise in frustration.
 Phoenix.Capuchin
Offline
Server: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
user: Anza
Posts: 2143
By Phoenix.Capuchin 2015-08-06 18:14:13
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Took Spiritreaver out in Ceizak on weak trash mobs and was getting ~7k Tier V nukes with the above nuke set. Relevant attachments: Ice Maker, whatever Loudspeakers I could fit, Optic Fiber, Mana Channeler. Not that awful?

But no clue how it stands up on anything of consequence where you really, really want all the Macc you could get. Kinda want to go into Vagary or something when I can and load up on all the Tranquilizer I can fit.

I'm also toying with a set a lot like Safiyyah's for VE melee:
ItemSet 336819
Taeon stuff has Haste+5%, DA+5%, and Acc/Racc 20~23 per piece.

Has some room for improvement from Escha gear (Empath Necklace, Overbearing Ring). Legs I could swap for Taeon too, but I'm OK with Skill+23 for now.

No Thurandaut Ring for me, I use my Haverton too damn much (RNG, COR, all the DW jobs) to spend that reward on Automaton melee (I don't BST, so it would be PUP only gear for me)... but if we ever get ability to hold 2 Adoulin rings at once I'd grab Thurandaut too.

With Kenkonken, slipping in to hit a 3000tp Pummel for AM3 aftermath is surely best DPS for pet if you can manage it (even if you have to run away afterwards), though potentially tricky given that you'd be using a pet-only setup like this main in situations where players meleeing is too dangerous. Without KKK, Nibiru and Tinhaspa aren't bad choices.
necroskull Necro Bump Detected! [119 days between previous and next post]
 Asura.Marysvillain
Offline
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 40
By Asura.Marysvillain 2015-12-03 18:29:12
Link | Quote | Reply
 
So I am new to pup as in, ive only just unlocked it now. I am curious before I begin if anyone could advise as to which frames I should be buying/advancing/focusing first.
 Phoenix.Tearxx
Offline
Server: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
user: Tearxx
Posts: 81
By Phoenix.Tearxx 2015-12-03 19:10:01
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Asura.Marysvillain said: »
So I am new to pup as in, ive only just unlocked it now. I am curious before I begin if anyone could advise as to which frames I should be buying/advancing/focusing first.

With the current state of PUP, Valoredge>WHM puppet>others. VE as a tank is really, really good at 99, so I'd suggest to work with that the most. I still personally enjoy Sharpshot, but its uses have dwindled with the updates to attachments for hate generation.
 Asura.Marysvillain
Offline
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 40
By Asura.Marysvillain 2015-12-03 19:13:12
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Phoenix.Tearxx said: »
Asura.Marysvillain said: »
So I am new to pup as in, ive only just unlocked it now. I am curious before I begin if anyone could advise as to which frames I should be buying/advancing/focusing first.

With the current state of PUP, Valoredge>WHM puppet>others. VE as a tank is really, really good at 99, so I'd suggest to work with that the most. I still personally enjoy Sharpshot, but its uses have dwindled with the updates to attachments for hate generation.
alright thank you for responding. with the frames, it says you have to buy them at 10,20,30 and then there are 2 at 40 and 50? Do you have to at level 10 get each of the frames? Like frame A,B,C at 10, and 20 and 30. or Frame A 10, Frame b 20, frame c 30?
 Shiva.Dawezy
Offline
Server: Shiva
Game: FFXI
user: Dawezy
Posts: 25
By Shiva.Dawezy 2015-12-04 01:09:31
Link | Quote | Reply
 
FF wiki has a good outline of what is required, for getting all the frames. Give it a read over ^_^

http://ffxiclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/Puppetmaster:_Upgrading_Your_Automaton

Damn.. nostalgia trip, I still got some sc's from back when I was killing Orcs in West Ronfaure with only Combo available equipped with a Tunic.
[+]
First Page 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9