Samurai: 5-Hit Polearm, 17% Haste

Nobody did, it was an example to make a point.



Parse results please.

Not sure what Frob will consider ideal, but what I've done that really shredded was SAM/WAR (All Polearm) x3 with COR, BRD, and RDM.

It was a very well equipped COR/NIN with Joy/M.Kris that was steadily pumping out Slug Shots in the 1200-1700 range in addition to keeping buffs on everyone and assisting with crowd Control, and it was a sick party. We pulled down 45k in just over an hour and a half (COR tinkered with rolls, and we found that we could kill at or better than respawn rate while using Corsair's Roll as one of the rolls).

I've had other kickass bird parties, and I've Barded for both Lanceburns and Thiefburns that did almost the same, but I was on "initial provoke" duty as SAM/WAR, mostly to clear it off the puller, and I'd usually drop off current bird as soon as I had TP for another Penta Thrust and it was below 30%, and I'd start next bird.

*** nonsense. You're telling us you think its a fair to compare yourself to any DRG when you're getting Madrigal? A Good DRG will have capped accuracy with no acc buffs whatsoever on birds and your Tomoe SAM would shrivel without either Madrigal or Hunter's. I couldn't gimp myself down enough to make Madrigal useful.

It is dishonest at best (or worse yet, ignorant ;-;) to even argue this as a level playing field when you're getting, essentially, an extra buff in your comparison. The following would be a more fair comparison (read: buffs equally beneficial to all):

WAR SAM DRG BRD COR RDM

If you took your best gear/food against my regular lolibri merit gear (Turban + Askarbody instead of Askarhead + Zahak's) and made the buffs Marchx2 + Samurai's Roll + Fighter's Roll you would get absolutely destroyed.

Finally, I am getting beyond frustrated with people who think the best use of a parser is anything other than comparing yourself to yourself.

Really, if you've got a COR, the name of the game is being efficient enough to chain steadily while using corsair's roll and not running yourself dry. Seems like people forget that the whole idea is to gain a higher exp/merit per/hr and instead prefer ***that gives them higher parse blahblah or something they probably shouldn't need, such as madrigal. lol

You guys all suck.

"my job is better than yours with 2 bards"

it seems to me that brd is the key job here and not sam or drg lol.

parse or no parse, try to do your comparing without any bard. As long as you guys have to stick a bard or 2 in to the equation, bard is still the key job.

its just silly to compare penis sizes based on having 2 bards in a party.

my 2 cents.

I know, I was just highlighting that Double Attack isn't a "nope" feature in the discussed scenario -- regardless of subjob.


Correct. It's more useful when something does go entirely wrong. However, even when things are going smooth it's always nice to high jump a bird before a pecking flurry gets sent my way. Does dmg, quickens TP gain, and sheds hate.


Thank you for catching that. I did deviate a bit with that example. It's natural to have GK on the mind when discussing SAM.

However, if not for the goal of a self-skillchain, utilizing the jumps in correlation with meditate will allow for more weapon skills. Eventhough a skillchain will not result, the less time it takes to execute two weapon skills is in favor of /DRG (and the 30 second kill).

There's really no need to continue, as results have been shown by a SAM that probably out-gears us all by far. In short, the title of the thread was not bragging about things like 10% DA or Berserk. It was 17% haste and a 5 hit build. In contrast, all I was claiming was that changing subs gives 25% haste and a 5 hit build. Couple that with Rukenshin's findings that echo my claims, and I'd say it's pretty clear which sub is ideal for higher parse results.

However, none of this means that a SAM/DRG would automatically beat a properly geared/played DRG/SAM in a Colibri merit... Sure, one might, but probably not always - making it a difference that is outside of job combinations. (i.e., the player)

Why would I go to birds on Pole Sam w/o madrigal? That would be stupid. The point isn't to be fair, or to have an even playing field or w/e. The only thing that matters is 3 sam, 2 brd, 1 rdm are going to be able to get to an xp/hr rate that drg can't get to. Pole Sam requires specific circumstances to reach Godlike performance, but when those are met, very little else in the game can get to that lvl.

For the last time, Ruke was using AMANO, GKT and POLE are NOT THE SAME. You don't play the same way, much of what /war brings to Pole is lost on Gkt, which is why /Drg does so well with Gkt.

It doesn't matter how fast you miss...

A 5-Hit build that is successful is one that you get TP in 5 Swings, not 6-7 Swings.

It's hard to do that without one or more of the following:

- Bard
- Corsair
- Sacrificing Haste or other stats in favor of Accuracy (i.e. O.Hat vs. Turban)
- Accuracy food (And this is LOL on birds)

I would probably use 11% Haste at most with Polearm (Haidate/Dusk/Fuma) even though I have 9% more in the bag, 14% more if /DRG. That's without even paying attention to Store TP.

Sam/War, Sam/War, Sam/War, Brd/Nin, Brd/Whm, Rdm/Whm

Brd/Nin pulls with AU throwing disc, and sings both marches.
Brd/Whm needs at least 700 Mp and sings double Ballad + Mad + Min IV and main heals the Sams when the Rdm needs to rest
Rdm/Whm Hastes the 3 Sams, Refresh themself and the /Whm brd and hopefully has Dia 3

With this group you can camp middle birds, kill all the birds, the wyrve, some birds from the bottom and some mamool from the top. You will need to pull them all to keep chain going.

Thats why its really nice if you have some combo acc/haste gear.
Ace's Helm, Askar Hands, Byakko's, Usu or even Enkiudo feet. Also, nice that swift has some acc on it for those of us w/o V belt.

He did another test, with Hagun, that showed similar results. Did you actually read the link I posted?

You know with merited polearm and /drg you would be around 80%+ accurate on colibri birds without food or your precious Madrigal? With your unmerited polearm and /war you are sitting at 70%. Makes more sense why you want 2 brds in your party now.

Yes, I read his results about 2 years ago or w/e it was that he released it. It's what started the whole /drg craze and is why the earring went from dirt to 200k+.

Yeah it does make sense why I want 2 brds. I've said over and over, it takes a specific setup to make Pole Sam better than other jobs. What part of my post do you not understand?

I understood your post, I just think refusing to party if not given the sweetest setup to do it in is a bit snobbish. It is still my opinion that /drg would do more for an unmerited sam using polearm without any usukane gear (such as yourself) than /war would. Given how much evidence I have seen both on Rukenshin's research as well as parses I have done myself. However, we'll just have to agree to disagree.

Thank you for the discussion Frobeus, despite my view points I have learned more about SAM/WAR and do hold it slightly higher in respect. Take Care!

I think it's apparent we'll just have to agree to disagree.

One thing though, how much xp/hr does your double-BRD-middle-camp-Mammool/Wivre/Bird-party give you?

Just to toss a little more fuel to the fire, regarding the lol'ing @ sushi...

For a 3x pole SAM party, sure have the brd sing madrigal as it will benefit all melee. But if there are other DD that dont need that acc (So I guess Frob this doesn't affect you) it is a wasted buff.

With Madrigal and Kabobs you gain ~30 acc for yourself only and 60 attack.

With Minuet3 and Crab Sushi you gain ~48 attack for all melee and ~50 acc.

So with Madrigal you lose 20 acc to gain 12 attack and you screw the other DD out of a 3rd buff. While with Sushi, you have all the acc needed (allowing you to gear more haste/attack) and keeping the whole party buffed.

And yes, this will outperform GKT on birds, no need to change style because you have a DRG and WAR in the party.

As far as the /DRG stuff goes, yes it is great with a GKT - Amano, Hagun, and Soboro. But it does not carry to polearm. The lost attack (especially on penta) just cant be made up with a couple jumps and haste.

That's the whole point of spamming crab sushi, which I believe you've called "fail." It's usually cheaper than meat and doesn't gimp your songs, nor does it require a sacrifice from a cor if you aren't fortunate enough to have the magical double brd setup. Sure Madrigal works if all you have is pole SAMs AND double BRD, even though it would be no different than using sushi, but to think that all these posts thus far have revolved around 1 single setup to work at one single camp is kind of ridiculous. Just for the sake of not using crab sushi. lol

If you couldn't even put together a proper 5-hit setup without relying on some really HELP I AM TRAPPED IN 2006 PLEASE SEND A TIME MACHINE conditions and now this, I'll just stop here. lol

After Mogue's last post, most of this is just nonsense anyway.

Edit: Too late, Kaster basically nailed all the points to be made about this.

NP. I never seek with the intent of joining a merit pt, and when I do merit (once every 2 months maybe) I only go with friends, so I don't really find it snoobish as I don't turn down pts b/c they aren't to my liking.

(I do have usu legs btw) 0/23402394572039573757803948 on bees. If they ever drop I'll have sun-ate the next morning.

I never merit unless everyone in the party have atleast 1 relic weapon each. <.<

Edit: Prefer if they have mythic too

If you have a relic and are good friends with 2 other relic holders, and have 2 Ghorn brds that don't mind meriting then that would not be an unreasonable statement.

hmmm just sort of a random question u guys think smiloden+1 is better than foragers? im sitting at around 150 str with haub+1 and hachiryu pants (rest of sam str gear is pretty common). guess im wondering if the benefits of stacking str decline over the rate of stacking att as u max out on str mods

just trying to see what ur input is before i start parsing it to get an idea of what to expect.

Gekko has a natural Acc/Att boost built into it, making att gear almost worthless. (Any one who disagree's can go fight it out on BG where all the numbers/parses are posted)

Osode > Haub +1 for Gek
Smi+1 > Fora for Gek

well i usually just use askar when i dont need the acc... i dunno i like the DA stacks, makes those random 1600+ WSs fun to watch.

personally though ive been starting to just use haub+1 more cause the wyvern+1 and hachiryu pants took out like 10+ acc from the shura pieces... i started wiffing like 20% of the time which is way too much. ill look into just swapping smiloden+1 in, but the haubt+1 is the best way to swap in the acc while preserving the acc.

Fig of your imagination. Gekko's natural acc bonus puts it @ capped Acc in nearly all situations.

Also, before everyone goes apeshit again, I was in the same camp as you before I actually tested it out.

i dont know about that frob.. i accidentally forgot to bring acc setup to faffy lol and i think i made 1/4 WS.. boy was the ls mad hahaha. u cud be right about the gekko acc being higher which i dont see why SE would do something like that. but i like using yuki and kasha on birds just for the effect procs. ill try it out on gekko though

Were you blinded? acc- effects seem to still have an effect. Otherwise it was just bad luck. 4 isnt a huge sample size XD

lol well i was in askar... after that they were like GET OUT OF THE ALLIANCE! haha i had no acc gear on. just full haste. woops! but i didnt know gekko had extra mods on it inately.. thats strange ill look around but it just seems strange the only gekko has higher att/acc mods than the other 2

I don't wanna hear it. I've been in a bird meripo where I was outdamaging the DRG in the pt with a similar (not exact) setup as the OP stated. With a single BRD in the pt using 2 attack+ songs I was getting anywhere from 800-1400 with a polearm on my SAM. And I haven't merited polearm.

yea when we build LS meripo parties we know all of our DD's have capped/merited skills

we still get a brd/cor they just roll/sing march,march,fighters,corsairs

i notice alot of misses on my SAM, even with gk297 skill

i s'pose it's just because im used to my WAR's multi-hit skills, where even if on ehit lands it still counts

as to where a y/g/k miss is a miss ; ;

I've done Drg burn pts, and sam burn pts-
Drg we did 3/4 drg 2/blu 1/2 /sam, RDM, BRD 1/2 and we run out of birds, mam's we dont break chain, but it sure gets close to losing it. But, were also pulling other pts mobs which sucks ***. So i'd rather 1 brd, 1rdm 4 dd and pull at a normal pace :)
Sam's pt's. 3/4 sam rdm brd 1/2 we usually have more repoping before they have even killed 1 floor lol..(please don't use the "they don't have my gear" or "they suck *** then" excuses, These are just regular players and good ones who have good gear. Not everyone in the game can be top notch top of the world)

I'd rather Drg burn, I like not being out of MP every 10 seconds because people think its fun to make the rdm want to scream out bloody murder because of the lack of MP. They help contribute to the overall party time and are always alot nicer. I dont mind tossing them a refresh instead of 5 cure IV's and they keep the brd alive on bad pulls if i cant.
lol *** hate DD and the elitest *** who jump on your *** because you cant keep up with their MP sinking ***.

anyways, yes you can kill them in 30 seconds, but they can also pecking flurry your *** and take a lot of MP from the mages. You don't have a mage job leveled from what i see, and you don't have DRG level'd so i guess you wouldn't know :(
Btw, when i get a double bard PT, Unless your Cluh, lol never seen any brds DD and do anything besides stand there. they are just decorative and to make the dd happy :( moar DD brds yes please!

Erroli- as for your OP, Chose whatever set up you like, and you see working for you. If you like i can try to find a few sites that have good set ups without the huge end game gear. But your gonna be the only one who knows what works best for you :)