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Magic: The Gathering
By Eugene 2012-01-09 20:25:12
Quote: Q: I heard somebody talking about "mana burn". What's that?
A: Before the Magic 2010 rules changes, when mana disappeared from your mana pool, you lost life equal to the amount of mana lost this way; this was called "mana burn".
Mana burn wasn't very common, because most of the time players produce only as much mana as they need as they need it, but it sometimes came up when a spell or ability added a fixed amount of mana to their mana pool and they weren't able to spend all of it. However, you don't have to worry about that, because mana burn is no longer a part of the game.
All I can find on it easily. thanks
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By Phoenix.Wackatramp 2012-01-09 20:34:09
Wow. I haven't played in so long. I would with a few friends every now and then in junior high. Ha. I miss the smell of opening a new pack of cards. The first pack I ever bought was from Chronicles?. I have no idea what I ended with. I have a lot of Tempest cards still kicking around.
I'm going to most def. look into this again. Now that we re In the era of online, it ll be easy to find others to play against.
Cool thread, yo',
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By Odin.Graywind 2012-01-09 20:57:35
Quote: Q: I heard somebody talking about "mana burn". What's that?
A: Before the Magic 2010 rules changes, when mana disappeared from your mana pool, you lost life equal to the amount of mana lost this way; this was called "mana burn".
Mana burn wasn't very common, because most of the time players produce only as much mana as they need as they need it, but it sometimes came up when a spell or ability added a fixed amount of mana to their mana pool and they weren't able to spend all of it. However, you don't have to worry about that, because mana burn is no longer a part of the game.
All I can find on it easily. thanks
They got rid of mana burn in 2010?.. that's kind of stupid in my opinion..
Bahamut.Serj
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By Bahamut.Serj 2012-01-09 21:11:59
Quote: Q: I heard somebody talking about "mana burn". What's that?
A: Before the Magic 2010 rules changes, when mana disappeared from your mana pool, you lost life equal to the amount of mana lost this way; this was called "mana burn".
Mana burn wasn't very common, because most of the time players produce only as much mana as they need as they need it, but it sometimes came up when a spell or ability added a fixed amount of mana to their mana pool and they weren't able to spend all of it. However, you don't have to worry about that, because mana burn is no longer a part of the game.
All I can find on it easily. thanks
They got rid of mana burn in 2010?.. that's kind of stupid in my opinion..
I know there are several cards that prevented damage from manaburn.
Kind of wondering what the point was. I mean, it doesn't change much of anything except mana burning your opponent whenever that rarely can happen and stopping yourself from dying from things like Gaea's Cradles and the like.
Actually helps me out in a few decks.
Still strange.
Carbuncle.Lolserj
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By Carbuncle.Lolserj 2012-01-09 21:15:32
There are a few cards that keep mana in your mana pool
thats probably why
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By Odin.Graywind 2012-01-09 21:21:05
That's probably it, it makes sense at least.
By Eugene 2012-01-09 21:31:05
Apparently it was taken out because people weren't aware it existed.
Quote: 3) Mana Pools and Mana Burn
3A) Mana Pools Emptying
The Reality: Many players can't clearly distinguish between phases and steps. The fact that mana remains in pools from step to step but not phase to phase is arbitrary. The concept of floating mana from step to step is hard to understand. Mana pools, in general, should be empty most of the time that players pass priority for ease of keeping track of the game state.
The Fix: Mana pools now empty at the end of each step and phase, which means mana can no longer be floated from the upkeep to the draw step, nor from the declare attackers step to the declare blockers step of combat.
The Details: This is mostly a change on the rules side. Currently, rule 300.3 of the Comprehensive Rules says "When a phase ends (but not a step), any unused mana left in a player's mana pool is lost." That'll change to "When a step or phase ends, any unused mana left in a player's mana pool is lost." A few cards, such as Upwelling and Sakura-Tribe Springcaller, will get minor errata to their "mana doesn't empty from mana pools" abilities just to specify that the mana doesn't empty when steps end either. Other cards affected by this change, such as Radha, Heir to Keld and Braid of Fire, will not receive errata.
3B) Mana Burn Eliminated
The Reality: Many players aren't aware of the existence of mana burn as a game concept. Discovering it exists, especially via an opponent manipulating his own life total for gain, can be jarring. Its existence impacts game play in a negligible way, whereas its existence impacts card design space somewhat significantly.
The Fix: Mana burn is eliminated as a game concept. Mana left unspent at the end of steps or phases will simply vanish, with no accompanying loss of life.
The Details: It turns out that eliminating mana burn from the game is surprisingly easy. I delete three sentences from rule 300.3, strike the glossary entry, and modify a few other rules that mention mana burn, and it's gone. Six cards will get errata to delete their references to mana burn, since "This mana doesn't cause mana burn" text will be pretty redundant all of a sudden.
What happens during a game? Let's say Heartbeat of Spring is in play, and you add four mana to your mana pool, but you spend only three of it. At the end of the current step or phase, the extra mana vanishes. That's it. No penalty; it's just gone.
By my reckoning, the elimination of mana burn will functionally impact about 40 cards, some for the better and some for the worse, some directly and some indirectly, because no cards are getting errata as a result of this rules change. That's right: We're not maintaining current functionality for these cards; the whole point of getting rid of the mana burn rule is to get rid of the mana burn rule.
Some examples of cards that will work differently:
Cathodion, Tolarian Academy, and Mana Drain are better, since there's now no drawback to adding unspendable mana to your mana pool.
Spectral Searchlight and Valleymaker are worse, since you can't use them to cause your opponent to mana burn.
Spur Grappler and Well of Discovery are better, since you can basically tap all of your lands for free now.
Citadel of Pain is worse, since your opponent can basically tap all of his or her lands for free now.
Hidetsugu's Second Rite is better, since your opponent can't dodge a life total of 10 by mana burning down to 9.
Magus of the Mirror, Convalescent Care, and Pulse of the Forge are worse, since you can't intentionally (and easily) mana burn yourself down to a low life total.
In 99.9% of Magic games, of course, you'll never even notice mana burn is gone. source
I knew about it because i read a rulebook once. I never made decks centered around it but you definitely could with cards like:
Before the rule change those cards (at least searchlight) could serve double purposes, early game searchlight could provide a source of mana, and late game provide a source of unpreventable damage. I'm kinda bummed its gone, more because of the lore aspect than anything.
By Eugene 2012-01-09 21:36:57
also granted this card is mostly useless, this could illustrate there could a few instances where mana burn was useful. Say if you had a direct dmg spell that could almost finish off an opponent at your life total. mana burn yourself to drop your life total into kill range, play repay in kind, kill opponent with direct spell.
again, highly situational, but there are a few instances where it worked in your favor, as well as keeping certain cards in check.
Also, all the cards mentioned in the notes on the rule change are changed to some degree.
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By Odin.Graywind 2012-01-09 21:46:43
I just thought it was an interesting thing to think about when using specific cards that enhance your mana pool. Eugene brings up valid options for it with some of the cards he listed as well.
Carbuncle.Lolserj
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By Carbuncle.Lolserj 2012-01-09 23:00:28
I've learned to never question what they do with this game because half of the time it probably makes no *** sense
Lakshmi.Jesi
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By Lakshmi.Jesi 2012-01-09 23:11:06
My friends and I used to play with proxy decks all of the time.
It was fun being able to use any card in the game and plus it was cheap lol.
We would just print the cards out and slide them into those card protectors.
I don't really like playing magic in video game form, just because it feels sooooo slow. Plus the best part of the game for me was the social aspect anyway.
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By Pandemonium.Anookulchandra 2012-01-09 23:12:26
also granted this card is mostly useless, this could illustrate there could a few instances where mana burn was useful. Say if you had a direct dmg spell that could almost finish off an opponent at your life total. mana burn yourself to drop your life total into kill range, play repay in kind, kill opponent with direct spell.
again, highly situational, but there are a few instances where it worked in your favor, as well as keeping certain cards in check.
Also, all the cards mentioned in the notes on the rule change are changed to some degree.
That card is not bad at all. It's actually sexy in situations of large group play. 2 headed Giants, King matches or just large group free for alls. It's also used in the game in general for games like if you are trying to counter certain decks. Knowing your opponents who have decks that burn their own health in return for something special reason for stronger monsters out and what not. Then to use that to bring you to their level and *** him hard saying you mad?
It doesn't help though when you play cards like
Bahamut.Serj
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By Bahamut.Serj 2012-01-09 23:14:40
Quote: As Lich enters the battlefield, you lose life equal to your life total.
You don't lose the game for having 0 or less life.
If you would gain life, draw that many cards instead.
Whenever you're dealt damage, sacrifice that many nontoken permanents. If you can't, you lose the game.
When Lich is put into a graveyard from the battlefield, you lose the game.
Problem?
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By Pandemonium.Anookulchandra 2012-01-09 23:18:26
Quote: As Lich enters the battlefield, you lose life equal to your life total.
You don't lose the game for having 0 or less life.
If you would gain life, draw that many cards instead.
Whenever you're dealt damage, sacrifice that many nontoken permanents. If you can't, you lose the game.
When Lich is put into a graveyard from the battlefield, you lose the game.
Problem?
That's not a tournament legal card for how over powered it is and literally what little can be done to stop it. And if you have deck to burn their cards or monster abilities and vice versa like for example Ravanous Rats it was broken.
Bahamut.Serj
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By Bahamut.Serj 2012-01-09 23:19:31
Quote: Format Legality
Legacy Legal
Vintage Legal
Commander Legal
Legal in Legacy, which is the only format I'd play in atm.
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By Odin.Graywind 2012-01-09 23:31:31
Lots can be done about that card really, all you need is a disenchant and ta-da game won for whoever used it.
Even the combo can be blocked because of that, disenchant is an instant while repay in Kind is a sorcery.
Quetzalcoatl.Zano
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By Quetzalcoatl.Zano 2012-01-09 23:36:29
This Guy
And this Guy
Not really a big combo or anything (that and takes a bit to set up) but the most recent Jace is fun.
Been playing MtG off and on over the past 6 or so years, and what I enjoy mostly is the plethora of cards to play with(pending format you're playing in) Good thread =)
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By Pandemonium.Anookulchandra 2012-01-09 23:36:38
Lots can be done about that card really, all you need is a disenchant and ta-da game won for whoever used it.
Even the combo can be blocked because of that, disenchant is an instant while repay in Kind is a sorcery.
I'm just quoting the magic guys who said that people can't even tell the difference between a end phase and mid phase.
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By Odin.Graywind 2012-01-09 23:56:42
Pandemonium.Anookulchandra said: »I'm just quoting the magic guys who said that people can't even tell the difference between a end phase and mid phase.
True, fair enough. To be honest that didn't make much sense to me at all
Bahamut.Serj
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By Bahamut.Serj 2012-01-10 00:25:11
Need some more deck concepts up in hur.
Going to order my new deck (parts I need) soon enough. 14.81$ for all of them, and .99$ for shipping.
Not bad at all.
Also am going to be working on condensing my white/blue down to 60 cards, see what else I need there before I order the rest for that deck.
By Sylfeya 2012-01-10 01:07:50
A Johnny here, although I haven't played in ages. Kinda sad mana burn's gone... never won a game with it, but I lost a game hilariously in a 'hoisted my own petard' moment:
http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=3318
plus
http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=19831
in a multiplayer game? Not even multiple http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=205351 saved me... my life total would skyrocket during each player's upkeep, and then almost flatline during my own main phase because I had no way to spend all that black mana. Had Pestilence's and Drain Life's... but of course, they didn't surface before I was eating over 80 points of mana burn a turn =/
Bahamut.Serj
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By Bahamut.Serj 2012-01-10 01:33:26
What's everyone's opinion on the most broken card in MTG?
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By Odin.Graywind 2012-01-10 01:49:28
This, is both the most expensive and most broken card in the game in my opinion:
[+]
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By Sylph.Systematicchaos 2012-01-10 01:51:36
*** HELP I AM TRAPPED IN 2006 PLEASE SEND A TIME MACHINE-*** card.
Also can black lotus even be used? Seems like something that would be banned in most formats.
Edit: Missed the part where you sacrifice black lotus, seems viable.
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By Odin.Minefield 2012-01-10 01:55:04
I'm OP, more OP than Yomi.
[+]
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By Odin.Graywind 2012-01-10 01:55:51
Oh, it's banned in most formats, part of the reason it has my vote for most broken card.
Bahamut.Serj
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By Bahamut.Serj 2012-01-10 01:55:53
I'd have to say this.
Or
Black Lotus is amazing and extremely epic, but imo Necropotence and Yawgmoth's Will honestly break the game.
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By Odin.Graywind 2012-01-10 02:04:13
I just feel Necropotence lacks logic to it... I mean why would someone use an enchantment that would, in effect, make their draw phase cost them life? I can see it being used to draw multiple cards, or prevent the player from decking themselves... But it just feels silly to me.
Bahamut.Serj
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By Bahamut.Serj 2012-01-10 02:09:04
I just feel Necropotence lacks logic to it... I mean why would someone use an enchantment that would, in effect, make their draw phase cost them life? I can see it being used to draw multiple cards, or prevent the player from decking themselves... But it just feels silly to me.
Basically, even if you can't Library of Lang or Spellbook, you draw out 19 cards and have the ability to unleash a winning combo asap. It's dangerous, but more than likely you'll get every card you need to pull out a win in 1 turn.
Same thing with Yawgmoth's Will. Dump your library in your graveyard through one of the various methods. Play everything to win it all at once.
Thing is, they're turn 1 with dark rit and get you you're winning combo almost 100% of the time.
Black lotus just helps your turn 1 hand and if it's perfect gets you a win. Necropotence and Yawmoth's get you your win.
Alas, both of them are banned in most formats =\
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By Shiva.Varistor 2012-01-10 02:15:50
I quit not too long before 5th edition came out and started after 3rd edition. my most prized card i had was timetwister. my favorite deck I made was discarding and drawing, using timetwister, wheel of fortune, eureka, library of alexandria, mahat djinns and clones and dopplegangers, etc..
Well due to a few people talking about Magic in the Fishing thread I decided to make a thread on it here. I feel like a good amount of people here probably play or have played magic.
Post some of your good deck ideas maybe some cool cards you've come across or maybe combos that work well. I just want a thread dedicated to discussion of Magic the Gathering because I feel like that would be pretty cool.
I mean it would be cool if we got people to download Lackey make decks and play online. I'm always up for a game of magic.
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