Thief In VW

point is, SAM, DRK, DRGs not optimal DD, is always way better than THFs not optimal DD

In a world where proccing didn't matter, would you seriously care if all the DD's are WARs? What makes you absolutely positively need to bring a SAM or a DRK?

And even if they are equivalent to WAR, my argument is if that is the case, and Ihina remained relatively competitive against you and the two WARs, that should mean THF is equivalent as well.


1. Fixed.
2. That is the relevance of the parses that show otherwise.
3. So what is this a contest between the suck tiers on who is closest to approaching WAR/MNK? And why should bragging rights flow from the arbitrary imbalance decisions of the devs? Any DRK or SAM that tries to lord over THF is just gonna get lorded over by the WARs and the MNKs.

I'm willing to recognize the way things are, but it's hilarious and sad to watch all the pre-2H rejects try to feel important because SE broke the game for them due to their whining. DD's should be balanced and they aren't.

Nah, what that mean is, the people playing SAM or DRK arent doing that well.

And can't I just say all the parses where you see a THF doing badly is the people playing THF not doing that well?

Where's the line when all the parses where a THF doing well are the SAMs/DRKs sucking, but all the parses with a THF doing badly is just because THF sucks as a class?

Speak for your self.

Would I take a tp magian sam or drk over a ukon war? No. Would I take a sam or drk with relic/emp that I knew was of high caliber? Absolutely.

Why do you bring Ukon wars if not for procing? Pure damage output. I think I've proven that sam is quite capable of surpassing war.

Now with all that said (/rant), the sheer amount of good players with ukons vs. good players with Masa/Amano is pretty one sided. Someone made a good analogy about a gatling gun being associated with ukon(think it was you) and it is really quite true.

Because math says other wise.

And my point is, we can't have our cake and eat it too.

Generic cannot use parsing to show SAM is top flight with WAR because SAMs can stay close to WARs on parses, and then dismiss Ihina's performance that shows THF is capable of keeping pace.

I have no reason to not disbelieve you, I am simply pointing out the logical consequences.


Oh I agree with that, I'm arguing from the "equal gear and skill standpoint." It's definitely possible for Ukko to lose because its user is HELP I AM TRAPPED IN 2006 PLEASE SEND A TIME MACHINE.

Honestly, uses Parses to prove anything is pretty dumb. Like I already said, Math shows how good a job is, parses just show how good a player is.

needs to have a wall with tons of health. Who does the most damage the fastest wins as best dd?

This

I agree math shows the theoretical ceiling for each job.

And I agree THF's is lower, and I discussed many reasons why this is so (most having to do with recent changes related to Abyssea and also due to the 2H patch).

But if you do believe that THF is inferior because it is reflected in the math, then DRK and SAM are also inferior to Ukko and V.Smite. Which means they would ultimately be just as replaceable if not for procs.

So really, they have the same place in VW as BST and PUP. A slot that is a result of a HELP I AM TRAPPED IN 2006 PLEASE SEND A TIME MACHINE proc system, not because they are OMGELITEDMG.

It's just like the old days where it was BLM or gtfo, only now it's WAR/MNK or gtfo. I think the player base should be encouraging balance to correct this, but that's not what ppl think about. It's all about them, which is why you have all the butthurt about the Ukko nerfs and why SAMs and DRKs redirect butthurt they receive from WARs onto THFs.


Good show chap.

I thought the majority of dmg drks so was through melee swings
Sam with ws frequency and thfs were for hate control.
With mnks and wars is combo of melee and ws

I'm so confused x.x
How is that not a HELP I AM TRAPPED IN 2006 PLEASE SEND A TIME MACHINE amount of dmg ?
ohhhhhhhhh I get it. You think I'm on WAR :D
Na bro those parses are me on DRK. There's no reason that my parse shouldn't show you that DRK is premier for DDing. I'm not taking away from MNK or WAR but DRK is the best DD hands down. If you don't think 55k dmg in 2:40 is "OMGELITEDMG" then wtf is ? But go ahead Gredival, your LS name is IIZERG and I didn't see any DRK's so you must be right. DRK is a sub par DD^^

If DRK is premier for DDing, better than WAR... then why were you so hellbent on being the 3rd WAR in our VW PT earlier when we needed to shift jobs around, even though you were bragging about being able to outparse other WAR...?

And by shift jobs around I mean getting you on DRK so our DRK could go to an Emp SAM so I could cover the empty COR slot to feed the DD PT Regain and Conserve TP...

Wanted to test MS with Resolution and cba when it comes to job changing :/

Ah ok. Was confused by that statement :x

The best DRK is pretty much better than the best WAR outside of abyssea.

Currently using Apocalypse, I pop a 300tp Catastrophe, then ride out Entropy. The closest person that has gotten to me was another DRK using a Ragnarok, and I only won because I was just a better player. A Ragnarok DRK seems to be the best DD you can really get right now.

@Gredival - Ignorance is bliss I suppose.

All of my saved parses are from before level 99, so they are not relevent anymore (Even though I won all of them). I didn't save any recent parses because I've already proven to the people I play with that DRK is hands down the best DD outside of abyssea.

I wish we could parse :/
Sounds like it would be fun lol

Here, let me spell it out for you because you can't read.

1. You believe in parses. Your parse shows a DRK can be a competitive DD. You argue that SAMs can keep up, although they fall behind in the parse and you make excuses to explain why they are still good regardless. THEN you must also concede THF can keep up based on Ihina's performance in parses. You aren't allowed to make excuses left and right for the SAM based on parses, then not extend the same courtesy. Also you can't claim just assume that the people Ihina beat on THF were bad, I can just say the WARs you beat are bad.

OR

2. You believe in math. In which case we set ground rules about what mobs, what buffs, what gear, etc. and we math out the consequences. DRK will probably win a lot of zerg situations because of BW+SE, as it always does. But in this scenario, SAM will definitely lag behind. Which contradicts your statement that SAM is a premiere DD while THF is not.

Choose your poison.

In either case I've proven my point. We agree that THF is bad in VW, but you absolutely refuse to admit that any 2H class is suboptimal in DMG while you're more than willing to look the other way and contradict yourself in order argue that.

Yall are bunch of whiney people wow.... Who *** cares if drk is the best dd or sam or war...how about you all just gear yourselves the best you can and stop being elitists.... its sickening hearing that this drk beat this war by 1k dmg and this war beat this mnk by this or that...its sad...and i bet someone trolls me about my spelling...well F u too. Make threads with usefull information.

Useful information...you mean like a discussion on the capabilities of various jobs on endgame mobs?

Yeah we should do that. Let's do that.

Oh, I forgot to post about what the thread is actually about. Yea THF is pretty bad in VW.

And I'm not saying WAR is a bad DD because it is not. It's fantastic actually. Just not as fantastic as DRK :D




Lol it would. For fun sometimes I wait for the Voidwatch to be at around 50% before I go in to try and salvage my usual #1 spot.

Lol and there you go jumping at the SAM thing again. I don't HAVE to concede anything. THF is a bad DD and SAM isn't. 2.1k per Shoha is enough to prove that is a Top DD. In Aerison's and in my Parse him and Teilo average 2-2.1k per Shoha and the highest averaging Ukko's is 2.5k however SAM will pull off a few more (1-4) WS' than a WAR.
btw DRK doesn't need to BW to win a parse. I've done all my DDing w.o 2hring on DRK. I don't see why your making an excuse anyways you told us all DRK is sub par DD :/

I won't troll you about your spelling but your math is off. I definitely did 10k more dmg than the WAR in the Pil Parse and the Qilin Parse D:

Well congratufuckinlations...you can do a couple more ws than someone else lol....your so much cooler and better than us. How about you offer suggestions on how a thf can be more useful in VW and not how you can do more dmg than other people?

Gredival, Isn't this when your kind comes in and posts "Change to Warrior"?

Sure you don't. It just means you're a hypocrite and you are shifting the standards by which you evaluate two separate jobs because evaluating them on the same standard means you have to either give credit to THF or admit that one 2H job, God forbid, isn't super special awesome.

For the 13th time, I've already said THF isn't good at Voidwatch. It isn't about that, it's about the hypocritical treatment you give THF.


And despite that, Ihina's performance was good enough for Aerison himself to say that THF can contribute.

So why can you dismiss Ihina's performance saying those WARs and SAM Ihina parsed against were bad... but I can't just dismiss yours by saying the WARs you beat were bad?

Again this is about hypocrisy. I can't take a stance until you have a set standard and position for me to argue against.


Stop excusing mediocrity.

Well ok. First the THF can lvl a different job that's actually useful for VW (Sorry the drop system does not support). Second I'm sorry that DRK is just THAT good of a DD. I'll post about what I've been posting about thank you. You don't have to read what I post :/ Lastly Thank you for congratulating me on my parse :D

95% of the population doesn't care about the ukkon warriors doing this and that lol... We don't care which job is BEST...we care about what we can do with our favorite jobs...GET THAT CONCEPT.

I like how you speak for 95% of the ppl that play when 100% of the ppl commenting on you page say that your a retard and that's just pertaining to exp parties. Why are you on this Thread ?