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SE does see the problem with pld....
By Wenuden 2011-08-09 12:30:44
God I hope this war/dnc is tryin to troll.
Ramuh.Lorzy
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By Ramuh.Lorzy 2011-08-09 12:54:05
Fenrir.Nightfyre said: mortontony1 said: Yes yes I did I've outtanked him NIN/DNC while dualboxing a BLM for grellow procs. All he did was feed the NM a shitton of TP along with the THF and lolBST that were also there (especially the BST, contributed nothing else to the fight), which was fun *** times considering it was Quasimodo. 2k spikes every 10 seconds, anyone?
Calling a Skeld Sword, Sattva Ring, Knight's Earring PLD awesome is laughable. well, when you compare it to his war...
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By Phoenix.Smileybone 2011-08-09 12:57:44
Cerberus.Kelhor said:
1) hate caps the same for everyone
2) DDs can mitigate damage just fine (or better!) while doing damage
3) PLD damage is pretty meh without an empyrean or relic
To address point #2:
What if SE reduced the -dmg taken% cap on all other jobs except pld? idk maybe reduce dmg taken cap to 20 or 25 for most jobs. It would make it harder to tank as a war or mnk or w/e and at least make pld a little bit more viable, right?
Cerberus.Kelhor
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By Cerberus.Kelhor 2011-08-09 13:03:22
Phoenix.Smileybone said:
To address point #2:
What if SE reduced the -dmg taken% cap on all other jobs except pld? idk maybe reduce dmg taken cap to 20 or 25 for most jobs. It would make it harder to tank as a war or mnk or w/e and at least make pld a little bit more viable, right?
Problem there is, if you remove/hinder DDs ability to tank (and yes, shadows/3rd eye would still work in that setup), you now have one job out of twenty that becomes required for a lot of things, and mostly kills the idea of doing things lowman, unless your lowman group is sporting an Aegis or Ochain (or both).
SE actually sort of went the other way with this, by letting Mythic/Relic PLDs break the cap the other way.
I don't think it would be good for the game, though; I love paladin, but I don't want the game as a whole to suffer, and making any job essentially required is bad for the game.
edit: Oh, and you could make -damage taken cap at 5 on monk, and it would still be a better way to go for a lot of fights. Counterstance+HP in Abyssea is essentially idiot proof and works on a lot of things.
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By Phoenix.Darkwizardzin 2011-08-09 13:06:45
Phoenix.Smileybone said: Cerberus.Kelhor said:
1) hate caps the same for everyone
2) DDs can mitigate damage just fine (or better!) while doing damage
3) PLD damage is pretty meh without an empyrean or relic
To address point #2:
What if SE reduced the -dmg taken% cap on all other jobs except pld? idk maybe reduce dmg taken cap to 20 or 25 for most jobs. It would make it harder to tank as a war or mnk or w/e and at least make pld a little bit more viable, right? If SE did that all the DD would say "wtf SE!" for nerfing them.
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By Ifrit.Darkanaseur 2011-08-09 13:10:33
Cerberus.Kelhor said: Stuff
I may love you
mortontony1 said: Yes yes I did
So, your WAR doesn't pull hate off a Sattva PLD. I think we're narrowing in on the problem.
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By Phoenix.Smileybone 2011-08-09 13:11:00
Cerberus.Kelhor said:
edit: Oh, and you could make -damage taken cap at 5 on monk, and it would still be a better way to go for a lot of fights. Counterstance+HP in Abyssea is essentially idiot proof and works on a lot of things.
Well I don't really think you can fix pld in abyssea.
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By Fenrir.Nightfyre 2011-08-09 13:18:06
SE has backed themselves into a corner with PLD's design and the present state of game mechanics.
If the job is not useful, then we have the undesirable situation in which the job goes more or less ignored aside from soloing and the occasional LS member bringing the job to events anyway more or less because they can instead of any actual utility. This essentially describes the situation of the past few years and can also be applied to several other jobs as well.
The other side of that coin is the situation where PLD is not only useful, but necessary in order to succeed at a given event. This isn't quite as big a problem as it used to be since jobs are so easy to level and gear now but it still strikes me as poor game design. This is the situation SE seems to be trending towards with Voidwatch, and is largely due to the way SE has made great efforts to push other jobs out of the turtle tanking niche in an attempt to give PLD something to work with. There are some other, less popular options that may gain ground in time which is the most desirable scenario, but it's a fine line.
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By Fenrir.Skarwind 2011-08-09 13:26:41
Hmmm let PLD use Great Axes again and give them access to raging rush while using a shield! (they could use GAXE in the beta right?)
Cerberus.Kelhor
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By Cerberus.Kelhor 2011-08-09 13:28:13
Fenrir.Skarwind said: Hmmm let PLD use Great Axes again and give them access to raging rush while using a shield! (they could use GAXE in the beta right?)
Nope. They've already said they won't boost our damage, anyway.
Seriously, where did you hear that?
/NA PS2 Beta
edit: besides, if we're getting anything back from the old days, I want the old shield rules back
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By Cerberus.Tidis 2011-08-09 13:35:52
Ifrit.Darkanaseur said: Cerberus.Kelhor said: Stuff
I may love you
mortontony1 said: Yes yes I did
So, your WAR doesn't pull hate off a Sattva PLD. I think we're narrowing in on the problem. The fact he doesn't have SAM or NIN leveled as a viable sub is all the info I need.
Please work on improving WAR before even contemplating a Ukon.
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By Bahamut.Aeronis 2011-08-09 13:39:08
Asura.Izilder said: 1. Trying to MPK a holder in this day and age with Sargas over a Tiamat - is pathetic and make's you and your LS look real derp. Makes them look smarter than someone who wouldn't do that... The NM is there, may as well use it to your advantage.
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By Fenrir.Captaincrunch 2011-08-09 13:46:36
I know I'm a little late to the party
mortontony1 said: See you're taking that out of context, I said in solo play. In a party play (in my parties at least) having our PLD actually increases dmg output. I'm currently a fulltime WAR and because our tank is so awesome, I can keep berserk up and spam Raging Rush (Ukko's soon) with no fear I'll pull hate or, because berserk is up/don't have good tank gear, take massive amounts of damage and die.
But, seriously?
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By Leviathan.Narshe 2011-08-09 13:51:07
Fenrir.Captaincrunch said: I know I'm a little late to the party
mortontony1 said: See you're taking that out of context, I said in solo play. In a party play (in my parties at least) having our PLD actually increases dmg output. I'm currently a fulltime WAR and because our tank is so awesome, I can keep berserk up and spam Raging Rush (Ukko's soon) with no fear I'll pull hate or, because berserk is up/don't have good tank gear, take massive amounts of damage and die.
But, seriously? I'm eating you.. right now.. how does it feel?
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By Fenrir.Captaincrunch 2011-08-09 13:52:40
I'm overwhelmed with both fear and arousal.
I like it
[+]
Leviathan.Narshe
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By Leviathan.Narshe 2011-08-09 13:53:33
;) Crunchatize me cap'n.
(k sorry for derailing :x)
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By Fenrir.Gradd 2011-08-09 13:54:03
Fenrir.Captaincrunch said: I know I'm a little late to the party
mortontony1 said: See you're taking that out of context, I said in solo play. In a party play (in my parties at least) having our PLD actually increases dmg output. I'm currently a fulltime WAR and because our tank is so awesome, I can keep berserk up and spam Raging Rush (Ukko's soon) with no fear I'll pull hate or, because berserk is up/don't have good tank gear, take massive amounts of damage and die.
But, seriously?
Hey CC you *** amazing taru you! I'm dropping my Rajas and getting Sattva so YOU CAN DO THAT TOO!!! Also dumping my haste gear down to 12% needs moar enmity for TP.
ILU CC
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By Fenrir.Captaincrunch 2011-08-09 13:54:45
<3 You're too good to me.
Ramuh.Austar
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By Ramuh.Austar 2011-08-09 14:11:58
Fenrir.Captaincrunch said: <3 You're too good to me. You hurt the roof of my mouth! *** you!
[+]
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By Fenrir.Captaincrunch 2011-08-09 14:20:32
You'll learn to love it, I promise.
Cerberus.Kvazz
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By Cerberus.Kvazz 2011-08-09 14:27:44
mortontony1 said: Hey NIN gets damn expensive, especially on things like that damn rabbit in Misareaux
Not supposed to sub anything other than sam on warrior, ever.
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By Carbuncle.Virtuosus 2011-08-09 15:02:56
but from the looks of it doesn't know/unsure of how to fix it.
for the lazy:
Quote: We are aware that paladins are having a difficult time when damage dealers push the limits of their abilities in battle and we plan on making adjustments so that it’s easier for paladins to grab the focus of a target. However, since it would quickly become boring and lack any sense of challenge if party members were able to fight without fear of enmity as long as a paladin is present, it will be necessary to take into account the proper enmity balance between every role in party situations. Not only thieves, but magic and songs amongst other things are there to assist in taming enmity, so it would be beneficial to utilize those tools as well.
In regards to increasing the enmity for paladin’s cures, we are currently looking into it.
Since paladin would pretty much be able to do anything if we increase both its defense and attack, we will not be doing this. (A paladin’s weapon skill damage output isn’t low by any means.)
Thoughts?
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