Pup DD Gears Yo

The fTP value that's displayed on wiki is only applied to the first hit. As such, you can treat all the other hits as having an fTP of 1 that is not modified by gorget or belt. If you apply that to Stringing Pummel, well, it actually has a very high "fTP" for the purposes of accurately evaluating the benefits of the gorget.

so if all hits are accounted for, it would actually have a 5.75? Thats ludicrously high lol.. no wonder it doesn't go up by the normal TP anchors that the other WSs do

Wow, I think that's the longest it's taken for someone to make a lolpup comment in a pup thread.


Haha yeah sorry, worded that wrong

I wonder how you can say this, when you dont have any DA gear (brutal/epona) and when you dont use the HQ version of items you use.


The best set (inside abyssea) is here : (Outside abyssea, i would change the back/belt/left ear by a vellaunus/Pipilaka Belt or sentry belt/kamas)

you can only have 8 attack rounds on a weaponskill so you can only double attack 1 time so triple attack gear is worthless (my sets for pummel) the pants i have are +6 str so the diff between them and usukane are small i dont even try for the pants anymore

Ire torque wins by a landslide for pummel over gorget too

also in no way shape or form does the +2 body beat usukane or the +1 harness for pummel it offers no WSC only acc att and dex for Ddex (forever capped inside abyssea) and usukane has dex too lol..

the belt is meh need the acc on sentry to cap on some thingslike viodwatch

also you can epeen HQ all you want its not relatively obtainable and s not a worthwhile timesink when other things can be worked on for a larger boost to overall damage.

No, you can double attack twice, and triple attack once.

h2h weaponskills get an additional hit like dual wielded weapons so it is 6.75

and 6fTP of that is not affected by the fTP bonus gorgets and belts give

7+1=8
7+1+1=9
7+2=9

lol im HELP I AM TRAPPED IN 2006 PLEASE SEND A TIME MACHINE

Nope.

can i get any proof for that or am i going to have to blindly trust a stranger

Run out and WS something. I don't see what you don't understand.

Cirque > Faith (if it gets you up a h2htier) > Asagaya for neck during TP.
Usukane sune-ate or Kokugetsu Kyahan are better choices for Tping., can get up to 3% haste on Kyahan (very rare tho... 2% more common).
Unless you wanna keep AF3+2 feet for the set bonus and stats... at which point you should probably put Tiercel Necklace on neck.
Kemas can be a decent alternative to Aesir if you need the acc.
You should either TP in Keen Ring or Epona's ring though, in place of Spiral.
Karagoz can be... uh, ok if you need the acc, but you should aim for Pantin Cape imho.

As for Stringing Pummel.
Keen Ring + Epona's Ring > Spiral Ring + Rajas Ring
Usukane Hizayoroi > AF3+2 legs
Aesir > Kemas (unless you need acc)
Faith > Elemental gorget > Agasaya on neck (supposing faith brings you up an h2h tier)
Pantin > Cavaros

Everything else is ok in these 2 sets.
One thing that surprised me a lot while messing around with Motenten's spreadsheet is that appearently for Stringing Pummel
Cirque +2 Body > Usukane > Cirque +1
o.O
Now that makes perfectly sense for Vsmite, but for Stringing Pummel? With its low modifiers and 6 attacks I was expecting Cirque +1 to be over Usukane, but appearently I was wrong.

Actually the vere and the gear your posted made me think that you talked about VS, i didnt see it was vere 80 (what a bad weapon for SP...)
6+x hit in theory, that means you have to not miss any hit. In my last SP build, i had +102 acc (w/o food) and i missed few hits kinda every time, even on normal mobs (inside abyssea), i wonder how you can have a capped acc with half the acc i had.



Only on capped acc, that we dont have on SP, and the test was done for VS, not SP. The first one has a 60% str mod while the second one has a 30ish% str mod (and i dont talk about the fTP value on both ws), so no it's not a good choice.


Wrong. On a multi hit ws like SP, you will have a better result with 20 att instead 8 str (or 6 str +lol2% dmg on critical hits)


Its true, i had VS in mind.

Then dont say "this is the best set" when its clearly not the best you can have for SP or VS.

meh just trusted the guys that told me otherwise~ guess i should wait more than a week before im the know everything pup. w/e thats an easy thing to test anyway



and Sechs how and what makes AF +@ body beats the WSC that usukane gives or the crit damage Alcd. Harness +1 gives?

You missed because .95^6 = roughly 73.51% chance to land all hits.

ok ok so your telling me that /war base 20% crit rate + atma crit rate + crit rate boost from weaponskill with berserk/pizza

the 20 att will still win or would other i could see it being close with berserk down but not really other wise

For a odd number i can imagine it but if you have 6 hits... dont you already have the last offhand hit?

--------------------------


Well its true in this conditions the att alone is not so great to boost the critical hit dmg itselt (but the str wont do anything too), however considering the overall stat on the body, you will still have a better result with the af 3 +2 anyway, especially if SP is a 7 hits ws.

i dont see it needing that much acc tho =/.. im used to multi hits being DRK main the missing doesnt make me want to stack acc anymore because your gunna miss just how the game is lol

Haven't tested Alcide+1 but I can test it now if you want.
Wasn't voicing my opinion, was just reporting the mathematical results that I found from Motenten's spreadsheet.
It's usually very accurate but of course we could assume there are some mistakes in the PUP spreadsheet formulae. If you wanna give it a deeper look be my guest. I'm a complete ignorant when it comes to math so it's not like I was claiming to be a math god or anything :D

According to the spreadsheet:
Vsmite: Cirque+2 > Usu > Cirque+1
Pummel: Circue+2 > Usu > Cirque +1

For Vsmite Cirque+2 is very close to Usu, it's not a big surprise. Probably with capped attack Usu wins? But then again it's not really likely to cap attack on PUP, even with food and berserk up. Potentia/Pantin/Cavaros are in a similar situation. While Potentia should in theory win, in a lot of circumstances Pantin produces slightly higher numbers (I assume it's still for the uncapped attack thing)

For Pummel I was expecting Usu to be last honestly. On multihit WS usually att > everything else, especially when you have small modifiers. Instead, to my big surprise, Usu places 2nd according to the spreadsheet.


Edit:
Just tested again with capped attack, Usukane rightfully wins on Vsmite just like expected, Cirque+2 comes second.
Still the thing is that it's highly unreasonable to assume capped attack, unless in some zerging situation where we're getting bards + CORs + best food + stalwart + warcry + berserk etc. (and even then, who would use PUP for a zerg? x_X)
But yeah, in such situations Usukane wins over Cirque+2 body.
For Potentia/Pantin/Cavaros it's a different thing.
They're all very close no matter which one wins, but in some circumstances Pantin is better. I've noticed the attack threshold at which point Potentia becomes better than Pantin is noticeably lower than the body one. As for Cavaros, it becomes better the more damage your WS does. STR/Att add a "fixed" amount of damage, Cavaros adds a %, so 3% is of course gonna be more valuable the higher the base value is. Here too there is a threshold after which Cavaros becomes better than Potentia/Pantin. It normally is under both in all other situations, but still pretty close.


tl;dr
Usu/Cirque+2 and Cavaros/Pantin/Potentia give different results according to different situations. While there is one piece which is the winner in most situations, the difference among these pieces is not that huge, so in all honesty whichever of these you pick up, it's still gonna be a nice option nonetheless.

DRK is probably not the same thing that PUP since SE ninja nerf this WS few years ago. Believe me, you never have too much acc for this WS lol.

Anyway the best way to convince you is to is to go exp with the 2 body, parse yourself and you will see (i never had the usu body, but did it and my af 3 +2 gave me a better result over my old alcide +1)

Hmm wondering how this all factors in with the weaponskill geting a pdif boost of 1.0 when you crit and inside abyssea thats .. all the time..

I don't currently have Alcide+1 in the spredsheet but it's pretty easy to add.
Do you want me to test and post the results? If I recall it's 2-3 crit damage, right? Plus 6 STR and acc+11. Even without crit damage it's similar to usukane.
So it's pretty safe to assume that, at least in situations where your attack is capped (are there any?! :P :P :P) Alcide+1 should be the BEST option, even better than Usukane.

Just my guessing, gimme a sec to check on the spread.

Results for Alcide+1 tests:

Vsmite, capped attack
Alcide +1 > Usukane > Cirque +2

Pummel, capped attack
Alcide +1 > Usukane > Cirque +2

Comments:
For Smite, difference between alcide and usukane is pretty big, bigger than I expected at least.
For Pummel it's not that huge, but still it's there.
It's pretty obvious that Usukane gets above Cirque+2 in such a situation because you have capped attack and capped acc, so Cirque+2 virtually adds nothing, while Usukane adds +8STR to the modifiers.


Vsmite, uncapped attack
Alcide+1 > Cirque+2 > Usukane

Pummel, uncapped attack
Alcide+1 > Cirque+2 > Usukane

Comments:
For Pummel the difference is almost non-suxistant, especially between Alcide and Cirque, really... they're virtually on the same tier.
For Smite the difference is bigger, but still pretty small if you ask me.


tl;dr
It seems Alcide is the best in all situations, altough the only noteworthy one is Vsmite on capped attack. For all other situations there is a difference but it's usually so small I wouldn't really say you should bother for inventory+1 and gil -5mils over something free like Cirque+2.

Here is my Tp and WS set. Mind you, these are far from done and far from perfect.

Tp: http://www.ffxiah.com/item-sets/218410

Ws: http://www.ffxiah.com/item-sets/218411

I'm curious as to why? Accuracy probably won't be an issue for you or your automaton!

Attack+15 to the auto is great in low-buff situations and it might contribute to critrate slightly. That or Vellaunus would be the go-to choice for TP imo unless you really need accuracy.

Speaking of Vellaunus, I'm really not getting the hardon for Potentia Cape on WS in this thread when it comes to a discussion of "best" gears. Pretty sure Pantin Cape would outperform 6 STR as well.

I already posted the results above, altough in my previous post I didn't consider Vellaunus.
Pantin, Potentia and Cavaros are all pretty close to each other. Cavaros becoming better the more base damage your WS does.
Potentia > Pantin if your attack is capped but seriously, how many situations can you imagine where your attack as PUP will be capped?
In most situations I'd use Pantin for sure, and this goes for both Pummel and Vsmite.


@Erlayn
Let's leave +2 upgrades aside for a moment, I'm sure you're working on them.
Haven't tested it, but at a guess Cirque Farsetto +1 should be better than Alcide for TPing.
Same for Keen Ring in place of Heed, and Aesir in place of Kemas.
Also, Furor Cesti and Burattinaios are both probably better than Marotte Claws.
For WS I see you're using Pummel. Skip flame ring and use Keen.
On belt, elemental one outperforms Crudelis.
Doubt Optical Hat is gonna be useful either, at least inside Aby or outside when using Pizza+1. Maybe you should aim for other options in the head, there are several interesting pieces, with best one probably being MKE one.

How about this? Actuall more an attack build for Pummel, and EponasFlamebelt missing etc.
Using it in and outside.