Help A BRD Out!

Yeah grips and stuff were being hinky, just put both staffs and grips up.

Not doing Salvage so AF2 +1 is more realistic for me, and the Roundlet +1 is a sexy beast.

Whoa, A thread that made it to page 2 without being trolled. /panic

Help a BRD?! Stop being lazy and get/buy better gear cheapo!


Better?

I knew it was too good to be true! D:

Haha.

Right now this is my current debuff set. Depending on what we are fighting, I normally cast my elegy with Horn+1 for the extra 2% slow.. once that's resisted I will full time IR Horn for the CHR+4.


BRD Roundlet isn't being very kind to me, still just 1/2 on limbus items as well. Debated grabbing Errant pants as well, but just haven't really ran into much trouble with what little end game stuff I do.

FYI, Horn+1 increases duration, not potency of elegy... I think.

According to Wiki it adds 1% for each Elegy+.

Not that wiki is truth, but that's what has been reported there.

This is what I want my Debuffing set to be one day. x.x



Edit - I don't Salvage so atm I have no way of obtaining Marduk, which is why I didn't add them into this set. The same goes for the Roundlet not being +1'd.

To shed some light on singing/wind skill vs. magic accuracy, consider that it has been proven that 1 elemental magic skill is equal to one magic accuracy despite what level your total skill is. This is different from melee weapon skill vs. melee accuracy, which is rounded down to .9 after a certain skill level. If it's true for elemental magic skill, we can make a reasonable leap and assume it's true for wind/singing skill.

If you're not sure how that translates into actual hit rate, you can check out some further research on how magic accuracy affects elemental magic hit rates. That blog post gives some numbers you can crush that will help explain why a BRD with 500+ skill can miss a debuff. Also, if you read past the conclusion statements there is some additional information on level penalties, which usually come into play when you're talking about mobs that can regularly resist debuffs.

If you're a math ***, this can all be very interesting, but if not you can just follow some general rules for debuffs:

1) Try not to stack CHR past the 110-120 range, unless you don't have any better options for the CHR heavy slots.
2) Remember 1 wind/singing is one magic accuracy when comparing CHR vs. skill gear.
3) Experiment to find what builds work best against the mobs you fight commonly.
4) Testing shows Greater Colibri have stats in the high 60's. Keep that information in mind when you merit and try some different builds. You may gain some insight you didn't have before.

Allyson, looking at the set I posted, would that make the Skill+5 Cape better than Jester's +1 then? I'm Elvaan, Base 70CHR I think.

The skill +5 cape will never be better than the CHR +10 cape for debuffs, however, there will be situations where they are the same or the CHR +10 cape is better. So, of course you'd want to use the CHR +10 cape. Stop reading now to avoid math faggary.

1 CHR is 1 magic accuracy when the difference between your CHR and your target's CHR (this value is known as ΔCHR) is 10 or less. 1 CHR is .5 magic accuracy for every CHR past the point where your CHR is 10 more than your target's CHR. This information is based off INT values for elemental magic, but we can reasonably assume CHR behaves in the same way.

Most "endgame" mobs have stat values <110, but keep the context in mind... Is the mob you're fighting a BRD or a BST? Is it sentient? Is it an HNM? All these things will hint at a mob having high CHR. Source, and more information if you're curious.

Horn does add 1% to battlefield elegy, Horn +1 adds 2%; however, carnage elegy gives 50% without any horn which is cap. The only benefit to using Horn +1 on carnage elegy is additional duration.

Yep, I knew that part, that's why I was asking. I figured the Jester's would always win or at least be tied with the Skill+5 Cape. Thanks for the info though. :D

Quote is borked, but:

@ Ignasio: Yeah that makes sense, I just remembered 50% was the cap for Carnage

@Allyson: 'assume it's true for wind/singing skill"
That's the part I have problems with. Can you highlight the part you were referring to about resists w 500+ macc?

Well, there's really no other option but to assume it's true for wind/singing skill. No one has done such exhaustive testing on those skills, and I don't think it's unreasonable at all to make the leap. The part that I think applies to resists on high levels mobs says,

"For Steelshells, magic hit rate appears to be reduced by .10 for level 76 Steelshells compared to level 75 Steelshells, but this point estimate is not that precise. That seems like a fairly big effect if we can generalize this result, considering the types of VT-IT monsters a black mage might fight and still have a low resist rate on with decent merits and equipment (thinking Aura Statues), but I don't see any reason to doubt these results."

So, there is some evidence of a level penalty for elemental magic resist rates that begins at a pretty steep rate. If one level of difference can reduce your hit rate by 10%, that is very suggestive that higher level mobs can do some real damage to your accuracy by principle of level alone. There could be other factors at play here that are not fully documented, such as magical accuracy caps, certain monster's traits to resist certain elemental debuffs (or all debuffs). High resist mobs are not frequent test subjects in the data I can find, but I don't think the idea that there are mobs with (puzzlingly) high resist rates invalidates anything about magic accuracy, relation to skill, or CHR's affect on magic accuracy.

In my opinion, what is most likely happening when a RDM and a BRD experience similarly high resist rates on a mob is that they are both reaching a magic accuracy cap, or they are both experiencing a percentage based hit rate penalty because of a mob's high level or special traits. Certainly, more information would be helpful, but it's just not out there. The special cases these mobs present doesn't make me doubt the validity of the testing on more "normal" mobs that shows relationships between skill, accuracy, and stats. So, yea, there is a lot of assuming going on here, that is very true, but it's based on valid testing and reasonable assumptions and that's all we got.

Well my thoughts are moreso related to a mob that a well geared rdm/blm(/whm/drk) can enfeeble, but a brd can miss on. Just going by the numbers, if another job can debuff a mob, a naked brd w/ an instrument should be able to land easy. Alternatively, a fully geared bard without an instrument should also be able to debuff relatively easily. But these aren't always the case, that's where my skepticism comes from.

Just finished getting BRD75, and was wondering if anyone was able to offer a few suggestions for this:



I'm not in a VNM shell so Oracle's is out of the question (for now), same with Marduks and Einherjar is put on hold so Shadow gear is as well.

Instruments: Iron Ram Horn, Angel Flute +1, Horn +1, Traversiere +1, Piccolo +1, Cornette+1, Flute +2.

Working on: Mary's Horn, Military Harp, and Requiem Flute(or Hamelin Flute?).

EDIT** And Sha'ir Manteel is out of my price-range for the time being><

I would suggest HQ staves, a full skill set, a set for debuffs, possibly a precast set (a lot of which I use teal for, so at 78 just grab the whole lot.)

This is my old one. But, get your HQ staffs and Magic ACC Grips.
Also: Replace that Wind Torq with a Piper's Torq.
Delta Earring is a fine choice, just if you use spell cast macro that in.

Last, Bard's Cannions +1 Are pretty beast! :P

Here are the item sets I currently use, just to give you an idea.

For skill+



For Elegy/Lullaby


For General Haste+(Ballad, Utsusemi)

If Sha'ir Manteel is out of price range, Just macro in Yigit Body and switch back to Kirin to land the De-Buffs.

Last: Brd gear really doesn't mean a lot... :P

Teal Saio for debuffs, as well as Teal Slops.

HQ ele staves (Or ToTM.) Use the elemental grips for elemental based Debuffs, the Reign grip is ok for Threnodies if you're running out of space, but the light grip and earth grip are far more accurate for Elegy, Lullaby and Requiem as well as the corresponding threnodies.

Number one tip is to have multiple macro's, I don't know if you have windower, but if you have using windower macros to switch between: Fast recast lullaby set, Full debuff potency set and fast cast debuff sets

Really help.

As a brd, be on your toes, use different gear depending on the mob. Personally I use Sha'ir Gages for debuffs, they don't have as much accuracy but the haste is helpful for getting Lullaby up fast.

It really does. Don't fall into lazyness because you think you don't need gear. You're not going to be landing debuffs consistently without a decent set.

Oop, yeah, forgot to put the HQ staves in the "Working on:" list.

Would you be able to go into a bit more detail for the skill and debuffs sets?

I'll have to work on getting BRD78 for Teal, no problemo, going to merit first though.

EDIT...nvm you posted them lol

Don't write off oracle's just because you aren't in a VNM shell. I don't see what jobs you have, but if you have a RDM friend, you can duo the T1 puk easily. From there, the T2 wivre is very easy. I soloed it on sch half asleep. Dea is also very easy, can solo it but duo is very easy and quick. If no one in your shell will help you, you can shout in whitegate with a lock on oracles, and people who need enkidu will come help you easily. Go out there and get them!

Not completely true, as Reign grip has a varying magic acc from 1.5-3, depending on dCHR, and on higher level targets(higher chr), will be the better piece.

For skill



This is a pretty attainable set, I mean it isn't the best as you don't have Marduk in there, but it's not too hard to obtain if you want bang for your buck.

The highest level mobs CHR caps out at 132 (iirc) meaning unless your fighting that particular mob, you'll get more out of elemental grips.

The Reign grips 3 CHR is easily obtainable in other slots, Macc isn't.

In a general build the 3 chr in the slot is going to be pointless.

Really doesn't. Just have the bare min-um.
Been in endgame for 5 years... It doesn't matter. You can land most stuff. Only slightly matters when it comes to HNM.

So you did it naked? Good luck hitting Elegy on high end mobs with no gear on.

Bare minimum varies for some people. For some people HQ staves are bare minimum, by saying gear doesn't mean a lot is silly.