DRG Endgame Tank O.o?

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DRG Endgame tank O.o?
 Sylph.Tigerwoods
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By Sylph.Tigerwoods 2010-05-09 10:31:44
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Quit partying with people who suck
 Asura.Tero
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By Asura.Tero 2010-05-09 10:33:10
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Sylph.Tigerwoods said:
Quit partying with people who suck

easier said then done lol
 Sylph.Tigerwoods
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By Sylph.Tigerwoods 2010-05-09 10:34:42
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Point is though, if you have a mage that doesn't suck and keeps haste up then there is no room for a drg/mage to heal. You can argue a shitty mage, but I'm talking about equal players, so we'd compare that to a shitty drg, not a ***mage vs a good drg.
 Asura.Tero
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By Asura.Tero 2010-05-09 10:38:50
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Sylph.Tigerwoods said:
Point is though, if you have a mage that doesn't suck and keeps haste up then there is no room for a drg/mage to heal. You can argue a shitty mage, but I'm talking about equal players, so we'd compare that to a shitty drg, not a ***mage vs a good drg.

regardless a well geared dragoon/mage could probably compensate and more for the damage that would be created by the haste and generate more but again that is all in retrospect to the gear of the players we can sit here and argue which is better in the end both are ways of partying, different ways and people have different preferences. I like both and I am just talking from my experience. Both require good players who have good gear and don't slack off.
 Siren.Enternius
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By Siren.Enternius 2010-05-09 10:41:40
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I haven't read this whole thread but it seems like a DRG/NIN would be a better tank than a DRG/Mage. Doesn't anyone think it's a problem that you have to be in orange HP just to trigger HB? Almost all HNMs can one-shot you at that point.
 Sylph.Tigerwoods
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By Sylph.Tigerwoods 2010-05-09 10:43:32
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Let's say you have

drg drg drg cor brd drg/mage
vs
drg drg drg cor brd rdm

You won't compensate w/ the dmg of a 4th drg over haste, provided you make the drg that's has the worst DD gear be the healer. If you're taking your best DD and make him the healer, then that's just retarded.
 Asura.Tero
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By Asura.Tero 2010-05-09 10:44:16
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Siren.Enternius said:
I haven't read this whole thread but it seems like a DRG/NIN would be a better tank than a DRG/Mage. Doesn't anyone think it's a problem that you have to be in orange HP just to trigger HB? Almost all HNMs can one-shot you at that point.

the reason that you would not want to be /nin and tank is the fact that you would have to wear your af1 head @33% of your hp to heal yourself as opposed to if you were /mage and you used your af1 head you would be able to trigger healing breath @50% of your hp. With the proper hp gear on a hume i can trigger healing breathe close to 780 hp and it then heals me for about 450~511 hp depending on how laggy the server is being with gear swaps. without hp gear my regular hp on dragoon sits around around 1280 so even on the low end of healing breath my hp would be almost filled.
 Asura.Tero
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By Asura.Tero 2010-05-09 10:46:05
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Sylph.Tigerwoods said:
Let's say you have

drg drg drg cor brd drg/mage
vs
drg drg drg cor brd rdm

You won't compensate w/ the dmg of a 4th drg over haste, provided you make the drg that's has the worst DD gear be the healer. If you're taking your best DD and make him the healer, then that's just retarded.

no no lol im not talking about a dragoon burn, im talking scattered dds if i was doing a dragoon burn i would prolly have the worst geared dragoon go /mage and being a cor/whm for support healing considering that the worst geared dragoon is prolly not going to have a good healing breathe setup.
 Caitsith.Mahayaya
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By Caitsith.Mahayaya 2010-05-09 10:47:08
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Sylph.Tigerwoods said:
Let's say you have

drg drg drg cor brd drg/mage
vs
drg drg drg cor brd rdm

You won't compensate w/ the dmg of a 4th drg over haste, provided you make the drg that's has the worst DD gear be the healer. If you're taking your best DD and make him the healer, then that's just retarded.

Hmm, but considering that haste is exponential, if you can't get a BRD for the party, just put a DRG in the RDM's spot? If you have the option for double march + haste, no question as to which would be better, though.
 Sylph.Tigerwoods
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By Sylph.Tigerwoods 2010-05-09 10:48:42
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Scattered DDS, well I mainly invite polearm sams and drgs to bird pts, so could swap the drgs to sams if you want. Would still benefit more from extra haste. Gotta keep in mind, you're not adding the damage of a merit drg. You're adding the damage of a watered down, 7hit, no hasso having drg.
 Sylph.Tigerwoods
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By Sylph.Tigerwoods 2010-05-09 10:50:21
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Caitsith.Mahayaya said:
Sylph.Tigerwoods said:
Let's say you have

drg drg drg cor brd drg/mage
vs
drg drg drg cor brd rdm

You won't compensate w/ the dmg of a 4th drg over haste, provided you make the drg that's has the worst DD gear be the healer. If you're taking your best DD and make him the healer, then that's just retarded.

Hmm, but considering that haste is exponential, if you can't get a BRD for the party, just put a DRG in the RDM's spot? If you have the option for double march haste, no question as to which would be better, though.
I was talking about good exp set ups though. Let's say drg drg drg drg/mage came behind having a rdm, but it was respectable still.

The set up w/o brd wouldn't be in the same league as the two we were comparing.. can argue pup would be top DD if it came to a pt w/ a sch healer and no brd or cor
 Asura.Tero
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By Asura.Tero 2010-05-09 10:50:58
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true and i know where your coming from but the primary reason i go with this setup is because i got sick of dealing with noobs and having crappy merit parties otherwise i would always go with the rdm. but as i said both are good exp i have a tedency of getting less bored on drg/mage either way i get 25~35k per hour depending on the skill/gear of the players at hand.
 Sylph.Tigerwoods
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By Sylph.Tigerwoods 2010-05-09 10:54:29
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Also, another thing about your previous argument, the damage you add as drg/mage. You are in this party no matter what since it's you. It's deciding whether you're going to go /mage or /sam. So, instead of it being the dmg you contribute as /mage as opposed to having a rdm. It's the dmg of the person who isn't coming because you invited the rdm, not yours.

It's you/mage + weak link DD vs you/sam w/ haste and hasso
 Asura.Tero
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By Asura.Tero 2010-05-09 10:55:48
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like i said either way i get good exp its personal preference as to which way you want to exp.
 Sylph.Tigerwoods
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By Sylph.Tigerwoods 2010-05-09 10:56:44
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Asura.Tero said:
like i said either way i get good exp its personal preference as to which way you want to exp.
I'm not arguing preference though, I'm arguing which will allow for higher max exp. You can party how you want, sure. I'm not arguing that or telling you what you can't or can't do. I'm just saying that drg/mage is never best for max exp.
 Caitsith.Mahayaya
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By Caitsith.Mahayaya 2010-05-09 10:57:01
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As for end game tanking, DRG seems to take way too much damage to be any good at it, even with a decent PDT set.

1. That damage you take is going to kill you or get you close to death too often to be reasonable.

2. When you do cure yourself with your wyvern, no hate is generated. Unlike a PLD or RDM tossing up a Cure IV, your Cure IV+ breath isn't going to spike any hate.

You'd need lots of THFs or /thfs just to keep hate on you for the majority of fights you would do.

DRG is nice for soloing or grouping with other DRGs, but for something that you need to keep and hold hate on, would be pretty tough in my opinion.

EDIT: Also, if the mob you're facing spams AoE spells or abilities, you can say goodbye to your wyvern. :/
 Unicorn.Ninetales
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By Unicorn.Ninetales 2010-05-09 11:06:40
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People need to stop thinking if they can do something solo, that means they'll automatically be great at doing something in endgame. As Veg said, soloing != tanking.
 Sylph.Spiriel
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By Sylph.Spiriel 2010-05-09 11:42:54
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High Jump sheds hate, you take damage HORRIBLY, wyvern healing breaths are essentially hateless (yes, hateless), you lack any way to mitigate damage, let alone grab and hold hate.

Short version: No.

Long version: Noooooooooo!

That being said, 2-3 DRG/Mages can make a pretty fun healing experience, as long as you aren't fighting something that can do a lot of damage in a short amount of time. Throw two in a party alone and they can tear through Sea Puks like nothing else for fun. Don't even need Wyrm/Saurian for that. But I'll admit, healing breath cures aren't for everyone, because a lot can happen between you casting that spell and the wyvern giving the breath.

And finally, HB potency macro:
/equip head Drachen Armet
/ma Barfire <me>
/wait 1
/equip head Wyrm Armet (or Saurian Helm)
/wait 4-5
/equip head TP piece

Or:
/equip head Drachen Armet
/ma Barfire <me>

/equip body Wyvern Mail
/equip legs Drachen Brais
/equip neck Chaonix's Gorget
/equip feet Homam Gambieras
/equip head Wyrm Armet

/equip TP set

Second one can get a bit cumbersome, and that's without resorting to third party tools like Spellcast.
 Caitsith.Mahayaya
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By Caitsith.Mahayaya 2010-05-09 11:43:14
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I'm all for trying new things out to see if they work even if other people don't condone it, but within reason. Things that make a tank: Spike hate often enough and damage mitigation. Under this, that's a lot of options for tanks. Watched a video of a BLM/NIN tanking Byakko. And if a monster likes AoE moves, why not have a WHM/NIN Curaga IV to hold hate as a tank?

DRG lacks these spike hate spells with ninja sub. DRG/RDM could probably pull hate, and have their wyvern cure them while spamming hate spells if their macros are good enough. Things you'd probably want though.. 1. lots of refresh 2. fast cast gear 3. HP+Defense food like Pescatora.

This is also kind of limited to what mob you're facing, I don't see DRG/RDM tanking any Sky gods as of yet.
 Shiva.Darkshade
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By Shiva.Darkshade 2010-05-09 11:47:19
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[+]
 Quetzalcoatl.Zandra
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By Quetzalcoatl.Zandra 2010-05-09 12:03:26
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i just logged in to comment on the sweet bro and hella jeff comic. AWESOME. never met anyone else who reads mspa
 Sylph.Spiriel
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By Sylph.Spiriel 2010-05-09 18:30:45
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I forgot one, and I'm surprised nobody else brought it up.

The WHMs and RDMs will cure bomb you. Nevermind that they've seen you use Healing Breath, never mind that you told them not to.

They'll do it.

They always do.

***.
 Seraph.Rafik
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By Seraph.Rafik 2010-05-09 20:02:47
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had a meripo a few days ago drg/mageX2, drg/sam, sam/drg, cor and brd. Got to chain 100 and people started to disconnect lol There was no rdm flag up at that time.
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By Shiva.Darkshade 2010-05-09 22:11:20
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Quetzalcoatl.Zandra said:
i just logged in to comment on the sweet bro and hella jeff comic. AWESOME. never met anyone else who reads mspa
*high five*
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By Asura.Diraphe 2010-05-11 00:14:58
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We can tank links on the mages while they sleep it or while the real tank gets around to it. That count?