Wanting Info On Rings Which Is Better?

Unless GK SAM wants to use sword strap, or polearm SAM wants to gear in full haste and have a reliable 5 hit.

You'd need horrendous accuracy. You should be eating sushi/pizza in just about every situation as a THF, and if you can't hit >~80% accuracy with that then your melee won't be effective in that situation, regardless.

Blanket statement inc: Rajas is the answer if the Store TP drops you a hit (2handers and 1handers), stops you making other sacrifices to drop hits (see: Askar Korazin) and gives you an fSTR boost in combination with the above. Practically meaning: (almost) always use it unless you are a MNK with capped fSTR which can happen. If your accuracy is bad enough to make an acc ring better than it, then your melee will be inconsequential anyway.

Again, let me explain this concept. On a forum you discuss things. Generally you discuss the topic and anything related to it; in this case, Rajas Ring is the topic. Having a go at people for discussing it for other jobs is basically like saying, "*** you for daring to use these forums to discuss the topic".

Whether you like it or not, the topic is Rajas Rings. Stop being the forum police and a douchebag in the process just because you're wrong, lol.

Well since this thread is so popular... lol

Here are my stats:
8/8 Dagger
5/5 Triple Attack

TP:
Blau Dolch
Sirocco Kukri
Bomb Core
Walahra Turban
Peacock Amulet
Brutal Earring
Suppanomimi
Homam Corazza
Homam Manopolas
Rajas Ring
Divisor Ring
Amemet Mantle +1
Swift Belt
Homam Cosciales
Dusk Ledelsens

Will have Homam feet as soon as I can get them to drop... Love Torque may be a ways off yet. Have yet to dive into Salvage. Will I benefit from having any different ring setups? What about weapon skills? Keep those rings equipped or swap one out for something else? It's tough for me to decide since ACC seems to be so important to Thief.

I hear Skadi feet and legs are great because the ensure 10% TP per round. This is more effective than the 4% haste + ACC you gain from Homam?

I don't think anyone is saying Rajas is a bad ring for 2 handers so not sure why its really a discussion if everyone is agreeing.

That's just me though.

??? Only the legs give sTP! If the sTP generally drops you a hit, then yah: Skadi > Homam.

Your rings are fine~ look into Cuch Mantle and Rapparee Harness for cap acc situations (which'll happen sometimes with Sushi/Pizza - also Feint). As for weaponskill, DE and Evis maybe keep the ones you have. For Shark Bite, Mandalic - probably better off going DEX. You can do DEX on DE/Evis too ... all depends. I'd make different builds with Feint up and down if you wanna really push it.

oh and to answer yes i do have 8/8 merits on dagger i was wanting to know cuz i seen some thf's using them latley but all this info is great thank you again

Whoops, my mistake. Ugh yeah... Skadi legs are better but I hate the look. lol oh well.

The 6 acc 3 attack is only available if you wear both rings, was comparing it as an individual ring. If you want to go dual rings and do Rajas/Tor vs tor/tor vs lava/kush, then Rajas/Tor will win in more situations than it wouldn't.

What about Rajas/Tor vs Rajas/Divisor?

DoT job (mnk thf nin) Divisor. WS damage job (sam ect) Tor.

Stop being different just to break the mold.

Rajas/nothing could probably beat lavas/kusha for thf.

nah, rajas is good, not that good. 9-10 acc more is going to be more of a boost to DoT than 1(75% of the time)or 2(25%) of the time fstr and the frequency from rajas isn't going to touch those rings either.

You're kidding yourself if you honestly think a lone rajas will beat the two of those rings in uncapped acc.

I didn't say with uncapped acc!!! But yeah was making a point. WIth an acc ring the acc difference is so small.

Granted it is kinda hard for a thf to cap acc on birds with just pizza without a ring and without sacrificing haste. However with those it really isn't too hard to do

there was a comment about STP being worse to dw jobs. Now that i think about it, this is far from the truth.

STP affects any melee in a constant way. No matter your delay, it will affect it the same way. A x % increase. The thing is 2 handed jobs got access to more STP because they can /sam.

My drg's pole needs 26 STP to reach 6 hit.

I think this is how you do it:

Going from 7 to 6 hit is 7/6 = 16,67% increase in ws frequency.

Now let's take a thf with bd/sk and 23% dw and a magical 26 STP that doesnt exist with equip.
Delay = 252.
Delay by hand= 126.
Base tp = 4.5
26 STP tp = 5.6

Base # of hits to ws = 23 (100/4.5 = 22.22 ->23)
STP # of hits to ws = 18 (100/5.6 = 17.85 ->18)

23/18 = 27.7% increase in ws frequency.

Hmm, i actually expected the same return here lol (or closer). Did i do something wrong? lol (Correct me if im wrong please. I'm really curious on how i should do this comparison)

I think the reason is that lower than 180 delay weapons receive a exponential boost in tp gain.

One thing is for sure. DW jobs need lesser values STP to get a decrease in # of hits to ws returned. +3 STP decrease the number of hits on this thf from 23 to 22 (+2.22 STP would do the job actually).

The only problem with x hit build for DW jobs is that they are more prone to miss between those 20 ish hits than a 2 handed is between those 6 hits.

I made this mistake once myself. Looking at it logically:

The first hit (the WS hit) is always present - agreed? Therefore, we can say that the first hit is a constant.

When you are calculating a return like that, what you are looking for is the rate of increase (or percentage increase) - constants are not important for this!

So what actually happens is 6 hits between WS decreases to 5 hits between WS, for a 20% increase in WS frequency (6/5).

So that accounts for why the difference was so large to begin with. As for the rest... the rate at which store TP increases WS frequency decreases (though the increase in WS frequency it produces increases) - this is to say that it requires a lot more Store TP to go from 7 to 6 hit than it does to go from 20 to something hit. What is happening there is just the fact that Store TP decreases the number of hits very rapidly as number of hits is high and then slows down (and this is also why people who say Store TP does nothing for 1handers are silly).

Ah yeah guess the ws would make it right. We still need to make the same assumption for the dw ws. I thought for simplicity i would take it from 0 tp hehe.

Using DE for this test:

4.5+4.5+1+1+1+1 = 13
87/4.5 = 19.33 (20 hits)

5.6+5.6+1+1+1+1 = 15.2
84.8/5.6= 15.14 (16 hits)

20/16 = 25% increase

25 compared to 20 is much better lol

Here is a good related topic,

http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/db/jobs.html?fjob=10&mid=126400909921441312&num=20&page=1

thanks Shamaya that linked helped alot and thanks again guys hope this helped other thiefs =D

THF is a dot job? <_< THF is a burst damage job...

Would you eat them
in a box?
Would you eat them
with a fox?

Not in a box.
Not with a fox.
Not in a house.
Not with a mouse.
I would not eat them here or there.
I would not eat them anywhere.
I would not eat green eggs and ham.
I do not like them, Sam-I-am.

Would you? Could you?
in a car?
Eat them! Eat them!
Here they are.

I woould not ,
could not,
in a car

You may like them.
You will see.
You may like them
in a tree?
d not in a tree.
I would not, could not in a tree.
Not in a car! You let me be.

Negatory comrade, unless you're fighting something REALLY high level. Below parses are not meant to flaunt epeen and my WS averages tend to be rather poor since as a THF I would simply take whatever parties I could get (meaning one BRD was typical, I don't think any of those parses involve 2x buffer...)! I'd often run out of food on birds etc... these are just to show the TP/WS damage splits, not that I managed to beat other people with subpar buffs etc.

Note: I play THF aggressively and don't ever wait on SA/TA unless it's very close. SoloSA and soloTA are both used extensively.

ARGH I MISS MY THF

DoT job, lol

I still don't think thf is a DOT job. Soloing on thf is sooo bad and slow just because without SA/TA you do like, negative damage. My NIN does 4000x the DOT a well geared thf does :|

I'm just not seeing it, thf kills so slooooooooooow with it's DOT, all it's damage is SA/TA/WS >_<

By DoT job, I mean a job that gets more of it's total damage from DoT than it does from WS. For example, mnk is a 65/35%ish split on DoT/WS damage. Thf and nin are around the same numbers.

Skill your marksmanship, TA on your adventuring fellow, and Suck Less™.

I agree with that, but a thf is more than just DOT/WS!

You can't use your NPC everywhere/always, it's not always leveled, you can't always sleep bolt, and this doesn't even matter because it's just proving me right even more, showing you NEED to TA and SA to do damage, ty~

Please, elaborate on what constitutes a "DoT job" (sic).

Damage based on autoattacking and facing the correct direction: NIN MNK

It doesn't really matter, we're arguing dumb stuff now, I agree thf isn't mostly WS damage and is non-WS damage, so for that discussion, we're done and I admit it.