Songs For Merit Party

Lol, I don't merit with anyone that has a Kclub, Nor do I often get to party with a cor, my norm for exp is only 22~23 an hr, none of us are super "leet" but all are above average..and as for hate pulling on rng, 2 use xbow so the dmg nerf isn't as bad close up, the other uses bow though... >.> and unless I get some great war or nin to voke.. or someone does a good WS at start, rngs always have hate.

or the drg just jumps mob at start and he will keep hate for at least a little bit..

Most fun I have had in a long time in a merit though was rngx3 cor brd rdm..

Totally epic

BRD/NIN - March Song X2

BRD/WHM - MinuetX2; Minuet/Madrigal if your DD are sloppy on lurkers. (Keeping Barfira up on Mamools as well)

COR - Chaos/Corsair's

If your DD don't have capped ACC your meriting with the wrong people, 407 ACC is cap on birds and a good DD should be 400~407 Total ACC. Anything below 90% ACC your DD are piss poor.


DD should be /SAM or /WAR Depending on if their SAM or WAR; anything else is unacceptable RDM don't you bish about MP sponge!

Not to sound hypocritical, as I did the OP asking which is better, but I honestly don't care for the elitist attitude, even if it is correct.. especially since the "piss poor" DD I merit with on occasion, are LS members who recently got the job 75

Ty for the useful info on the 407 acc for cap though.

Wait, are you getting 23k an hour, or are you above average?

Those two things are mutually exclusive, make up your mind.

Minuets are for DD who eyeball the chat log/don't parse/don't use food.

As I DRG I'll take march/march any day over mins. The absolute max haste I can get (w/o SV) is 64%, and losing a march or two stings. Other jobs can stack gear haste even higher, making marches all the more valuable.

I'd rather do 3 1k ws with marches in the time it would take me to do 1 2k ws with mins.

23k would be average, 26+ is a more reasonable number. 23k seems like MJSP S where you happen to get too many puks on your pulls; Overall higher chain, lower exp

Okey trolled this topic a few times, guess I'll post my two cents. Merit party=March/Min. I sing that 99% of the time, only exception being meriting with the relic rng in my ls who asks directly for double minuet so he can explode things. If they ask directly for a song, I give it to them, otherwise March and Minuet will be sung. My lsmates that I merit with are big on parsing and they tell me to sing march/minuet, and I trust their opinion, therefore those songs will always be the ones belted out of this bard.

Yeah, I've never seen or been in a faster party, 26k i think was my fastest, my invites whenever i randomly go LFG are all under 20k, maybe on your server ppl are more focused on meriting, but not the parties I am in

So yes, at the person who asked, 23k is above average from every party I have taken, and that is at bird camps, my fastest was actually at mamool and we pulled everything.. including puks, front camp.. but out in the middle close to where wyverns spawned, was a legacy or w/e they were called back then LS party at jade entrance (4 heavy dd 2 brds and 3 outside healers) this was before cor was popular..wasn't long after toau release..but back then jade was my favorite camp since it had mostly mamools.. although not many healers that were lfg could keep up.. back then, nowadays its birds or gtho

I don't merit often, but when I do it is on bard, maybe hardcore LSs make their own parties w/ their "leet" members and make a perfectly tuned party...

Don't assume your #s are the same server wide.. anyways

Done posting unless someone has anymore useful info on topic.

And yes, my parties I have to pull from bottom while camping middle because we kill faster then respawned, that, from my personal experience on this server, is above average. I do not know about your servers, nor do i honestly care how fast your server gets exp. It's irrelevant to the topic.

Eh, 2nd post, I will try out marchx2 though the next time I merit w/o a ranger.. and seeing as 1 quit and 1 is back on duty w/ military, will probably be the next time i merit

3rd post.. was rereading.. lol, total fail

Anyways, Argettio said..

min/march would be an "ok" set of songs for a 2 dd+rng party, i want to mention a few things

first, im assuming this includes the rng having minuetx2 since i usually have the time to cast that

2nd, "2 dd+rng" i rarely, if ever, find a cor or 2nd brd to merit with
idk if its like, insanely common where you are from, but 1/20 parties i have actually has a 2nd support (be that brd or cor) usually its 4 dd brd healer...

Anyways

you said, would be an "ok" set but wouldn't be great.

Is it really THAT much of a difference going from Min4>>Adv March?

I will defer to the testing that march gives a bigger bonus then Min4, but how much of a difference overall is that? Don't tell me that they do 5% more dmg per DD, that # doesn't mean diddly

What if the 5% comes from the killshot on each mob, and it is way overkill? (sam doing gekko or something at 10% life anyone?) sure on a parse they do 5% more dmg in the same amount of time as the exact same setup w/ minuet IV, but overkill is wasted dmg, if it did exactly 10%..although the reverse is still true i guess w/ minuet IV, although w/ more WSs compared to the amount of melee dmg between WSs.. more overkill shots?

My meaning in that is, it takes a sam, say, 5 hits to 100 then he WSs (6hit build). regardless of min or march, it's still the same # of hits. so he will be doing 5 slightly weaker hits in exchange for WSn more, which I will agree is overall "more" dmg, but at the same time, more spike dmg leads to more wasted dmg from overkill shots, just curious how much "better" it really is.

I won't deny it's better since most ppl say it is, and I will try it myself next time, but just curious how much better, is better?

Also, the bards most ppl merit with in these 30k/hr parties, do they bother doing balladx2 for the healer? Or they just assuming cor takes care of that

Don't forget i rarely if ever party with a cor.. and what is standard rolls for a cor should i have the luck in finding one, chaos+sam roll?

Any dd w/ an adequate haste build is going to benefit more from a 2nd march.

Let's use Colibri as an example.

DD has 17% haste, haste spell, hasso, march.
2nd march vs minuet?

Total haste w/ 2nd march = 62
9/(100-62) = 23.68% increase in damage.


Minuet is 66 attack. Let's assume 500 base. 82 birds, Dia II = 293 defense

((566/293)-.35)/((500/293)-.33) = 16.6% increase.

non hasso DD
9/(100-53) = 19.14% increase (still wins)

I should look more into what the #s are you are saying.. but i know it doesn't matter, i know what the info is you are posting

Can you do that w/o Dia II? And 500 base attack? >.>

If you're w/o Dia II, get a new mage who doesn't think they can leech their way through a party, but yea.

((566/327)-.35)/((500/327)-.33) = 17.12% increase.

Also, for both of those calculations, they're higher than they should be on the attack% portion, because there are also lv 81 birds, which the attack will do less for since they are less effected by level correlation and also less during the ws portion of your damage, as you should have more attack during WS than you do in TP, which lowers the value of the attack you're adding.

Tyvm for the informative responses.

And I had 1 WHM who could manage to haste everyone (including the bard pulling) and dia mob. .but outside of her, haven't seen that since >.> not even from relic hat/dalmy rdms...

Dalmy is kinda... Uhh... Town gear, isn't it?

That's what I always thought it was, forgive me if I'm wrong.

I prefer getting Minuet + March in meripo because as a Samurai+Polearm, I gain TP fast enough to beat the crap out any bird really fast with Penta Thurst.

Double march means weak Penta Thrust :s

Dalmy is a refresh body, know anything better for RDM meriting? Don't say morrigan, cuz in the end its the same thing. refresh, the other stats are irrelevant, unless you are elvaan, then the dalmy might be better for HP>>MP to equal out your convert swap

i prefer minuet/march if im using multihit weaponskills.

I prefer double minuet- oh wait... we're not after e-peen numbers.
Please guys, do your party a favor and let non-RNGed DDs have their double march please? :)

EXP/hr > Biggerthanyours:Depeen

Serious question though, Don't think I saw anyone mention

Does Att play a larger role on multi hit ws then on single hits?

For instance, (making an assumption) 2 str>5 attack for gekko? but what about, say, penta or asuran?

complicated issue.

It comes down to the WS modifiers, for example Gekko has a 75% STR mod, so you will get far better returns from stacking but-tones of STR over any other stat (for pure damage).

Something like Guillotine has a 25% STR mod (and 25% MND mod), at this point the gains from adding STR is significantly lower than on gekko, so attack is more effective means of increasing damage.

The best rule of thumb is, if the mod is lower than 30% then Attack going to become more important, over 30% then STR is the way.

There is a lot more to consider, including pdif boost and accuracy boosts on so WS, but that's a good starter for 10.

@ Vincentius: Dalmy is the best meriting body in the game for RDM, Refresh and MP is all you need for merits, and that's all the dalmy has.

Morrigan's is arguably a better idle piece for RDM (the only other item that gives RDM body refresh), but is also 'harder' to get.

@ all those saying they don't get rdms that cast dia: I do, but not always. If we are limited on mobs (eg other camp is taken) then Dia will actually lead to you killing too fast and losing chain. But in a party where we can pull from both camps then every mob will get Dia II or Dia III if MP allows.

@ all those suggesting the brd play 3 melee songs: I can't find many bards that can sing three songs at all... 90% of them sing 2 melee songs and forget the RDM. Sometimes that is no problem, up some times (sucky DD) means we lose chain as I have to rest. Getting them to play 3 melee songs and 1-2 mage songs would be impossible.

Double march is superior for multi hit ws as well. Like I said, my calculated values will go DOWN for ws. So let's say it's 16% increase for TP, then it may only be a 15% increase for WS. The increase from haste on march is consistent w/ both DoT and WS frequency. Using your multi hit ws more frequently > epeen numbers.

For multi hit ws, attack plays nearly the same role as it does for TP'ing.

If X amount of attack > Y amount of str, for TP'ing it will most likely still be the same for WS, but by very slightly less if the WS is modded at all by STR.

I usually keep up 5 songs while pulling, every once in awhile I will lose songs on someone.. but that's because i'm oftentimes dual boxing or talking to someone on IM/phone.. >.>

But I totally agree w/ the point that, if Mamool camp and lower bird camp are taken, then don't need dia as bad because we will just kill all birds and either have to pull a wivre, which will oftentimes kill chain anyways, or sit around waiting for a bird to spawn

But, I honestly don't get many mages that actually use Dia II every mob for however long we merit... i actually got told by someone when i asked for it


"like we need to kill faster"

>.>

but that was also a party w/ 3 drgs and a war..so the mob had angon most of the time, dunno if dia woulda made a serious difference..

ever I want cast Dia II as rdm, 2 or more "cry" and say "NO DIA!, YOU ARE CRAZY?" /sigh for what use "shadows" or think I can't use "erase" -.-

like a DD having Dia reflected on them by the colibri will really make a diff -.-, only adds more dmg if that particular DD being hit.. and even then, how much more dmg do they really take?

only time i hate it is when i go rdm/sch and the damn things aspir me back, i try to run out of range usually after aspir lulz

i guess the idea is that if dia is constant, minuet is wasted. interesting. keeping dia constant isn't always done, but i agree that we should plan that it Should be. and we should try to get a mage who can do it.

as an aside, dalmatica is actually a superior 'idle' piece because it grants two useful idle stats that morrigan's does not. MDB and MP+. Morrigan's does neither of these. morrigan's is arguably harder to get as well (esp now that the ingots are so expensive).

i do disagree w/ the elitist concept of 'getting someone else.' the time it takes to get a rep is more detrimental to exp/hour than the bad player. just as often, it can be impossible to find another one. this is especially true if it's a mage. of note, i have replaced extremely bad players. a monk w/o asuran fists joined my merit party w/ trial weapons once. we all agreed he had to go.

one more note, i respectfully disagree with that someone is 'piss poor' if he can't cap hit rate on colibri. w/o food, it's almost impossible to do so. and just as often people forego food for colibri. i'm saying like 80-90 isn't piss poor.

Let's take a Lv75 MNK/NIN w/o any gear (DEX70 Skill 276) vs G. Colibri (Lv82 Eva 327). According to ffxi calculator he needs more than +80 accuracy to get just a 90% hit rate. That's a lot of accuracy. A THF using Sushi +1 just needs about +30 accuracy for 90%~. The lack of food makes capping hit rate very, very difficult at colibri for non-2Handers. Even then, DRG needs +60 acc for just a 90% HR. That's still a good hunk. I imagine pole SAM/WAR or WAR/SAM w/o food do not have 'capped' hit rate either. I don't think lacking capped hit rate makes someone 'piss poor.' Not the best, but not piss poor.

thanks,

~G

DDs not using food is irrelevant. There are very cheap options for both acc and attack (Crab sushi and kabobs) at about 4k/stack each on Fairy. If your DDs are that poor, then merit mamools.

Birds + Wivre > Mamools > Birds alone > Birds w/o food.

Birds w/o food is at the bottom of the food chain when it comes to xp/hr. If they don't want to use food, then merit on mamools instead, I promise you will do better.