New Games Suck... Or Is It Just Me?

Biscuit is a 'fun' character who is comically muscular for the sake of upending expectations. She isn't a hideous manly character for the sake of woke ideology. Same goes for muscular or tomboy fetish; they are still traditionally attractive without being waifs. A short haircut or physical fitness doesn't make someone hideous or manly.

Exactly, I think the problem here isn't if a character is muscular or strong or not. What matters is if this character itself is likeable relatable in the story.

That being said, I do agree that people with a tomboy fetish is likely in the minority, so from money making perspective, there is always a risk to make a tomboy MC.

I still think tomboy character is fine if it's well written. There is nothing wrong with tomboy imo.

I think you missed my point. Muscles, short hair, or tomboy persona don't make a character(or real woman) ugly.

This is a muscular tomboy that fits the aesthetic gamers like:


This is ugly:


Tomboy or strong female is fine. Ugly for the sake of being ugly is a design decision that will alienate much of potential audience.

The character in this picture is more of an art direction problem than manly female problem imo.

I can see this character being being visibly female. I wouldn't use the term "manly" to describe her.

Personally I always find "manly" a positive trait for female, nor I associate manly girl with ugly. But I think people who uses this term here has different opinion on what manly girls are. Apparently a lot of people use the term manly the same way as ugly, I think that's where the confusion comes from.

I agree with this. I don't think the problem is any specific manly trait, but general ugliness. Personally, I think muscular women are attractive and often prefer the tomboy aesthetic (both in game and rl). If using precise language, manly should not be the complaint.

Thorny has good taste I see ;) ;) ;)

Real life muscular women are hot, those other things aren't.

Not hard.

Dodik is secretly my ally I see ;)

I can see muscular women kink club growing ;)

If you mean steroid monstrosities then that's a minority fetish, not shared by the majority of men. If you mean toned like Lara Croft then yes.

he not that fem - I still need to beat this game - gonna throw a couple hours at it now.

Can't believe sweet baby got away with this. As a fellow Chud this is unacceptable. Now excuse me as I OwO in Nier.

I played both games (and watched Drakengard 3 playthrough).

About the combat, Drakengard 1 indeed seemed like a Dynasty Warrior, but the multipath style, with each path being unlocked by accmplishing certain things in stages got me entranced to play. The need of collecting all sword to unlock the final stage is also a goal that became a trademark in the Drakengard series, and personally I liked having that goal.

Combat was repetitive indeed, but not terrible boring. I had more fun than boredom tbf.

Drakengard 2 combat was about the same with few improvement, but it added a new requisite that also became a trademark but I could stand at all: the thing that you need to beat the same game like THREE times to have the final stage. That was too much for me. That alone made me feel tired just to think in Drakengard 2 than Drakengard 1.

Storywise, Drakengard 1 story is surprinsingly interesting. I liked it entirely. Its unconfortable how messed that main cast were. That PDF guy is the creepiest story, that kinda exposed how messed in the head Yoko Taro is to make someone like that.

I also liked the plot twist of Caim sister also.

In sum, its not a likeable cast, but totally interesting to follow, even if just to feel creepied by them.

Now Drakengard 2.... There is a reason why probably this game is considered "non-canon" in Yoko taro-verse, where even theather plays, only available in Japan for a short time, and probably a lost media by now, is considered canon,

The cast in Drakengard 2 is definitively the most boring one. They are more "normal" than the original one, but also not likeable so they are just whatever.

The story also kinda sucks. I completed the first ending, but I could even start the second playthrough because it was... just not worth.

Drakengard 2 is a sequel of one of the endings of Drakengard 1, but surely the most forgetable of the entire series.

I just watched the Drakengard 3, and despite teh criticism, I thought it quite interesting narretively. The context of Drakengard 3 is more in line with the NieR timeline too. I like all the cast of it.

Hold up
Are people in here under the belief that Lara Croft is overly muscular and jacked???

There is a word you all are missing in your discussion of tomboys etc. the word is "butch." Butch ranges from androgynous to more masculine than a lumberjack. Bull dykes aren't fem in the slightest but aren't necessarily masculine. What they are is large. Old lesbian joke* "What's the difference between a bull dyke and a blue whale? 200 lbs and a flannel shirt."

Also RL muscular women's muscles don't show unless they flex. This has occasionally gotten *** men hurt badly.

*As in told by old lesbians.

what about abby in tlou2?

Thats just a man

Popular tomboy characters are plenty, that's because "tomboy" is a wide term, so tomboys come in many flavors. Tomboys can be cute and endearing. e.g. Sakura from Street Fighter and Yuri from Art of Fighting, both of which I really like.
Heck, even Cidney from FF15 can be considered a tomboy, given her mannerisms & passion (mechanic).

I may be misusing the term tomboy here. When I used the term, my impression is probably closer to "Butch" that Chanti described. Which is females who choose a more gender neutral apparance, who is also often gay. The most classic example is Haruka Tenou in Sailor moon.

So to me, Cidney isn't a tomboy. Her appearance is very feminine, and being a mechanic isn't inherently manly, it's just a profession.

But I guess tomboy is supposed to be an umbrella term that includes Butch, as well as action type heroines from Thorny's picture or Sakura.

I would define tomboy as a girl who doesn't (often) dress feminine and partakes in traditionally male hobbies. Competitive sports, weightlifting, heavy farm work, dirt bikes, that sort of thing. General appearance/attractiveness isn't part of it, though toned muscle likely has a correlation to those hobbies. I would say that most 'action heroines' already fit the behavioral criteria, so just comes down to whether they dress feminine.

I've always heard butch used in the context of lesbians taking the male role in the relationship: it has major implications about physical appearance/attractiveness rather than just behavior/fashion.

I thought 'bull ****' was a homophobic slur with effectively the same meaning as butch, tbh.

Tomboy isn't an inclusive term from the 2020s. Culturally, a female mechanic would almost certainly be seen as a tomboy at a glance. Lot of her fashion choices fit the stereotype too: her cap, cutoff jeans, boots are all typical of rural tomboy look. The thigh highs and exposed undergarments not so much, but obvious fan service.

Here you are being wrong again.

Your definition of basic concepts are brainwashed by woke plague.

See how easy it is to map this:
To this:




That's because Thorny is just applying basic real life concept to things without consulting the cult first.

Nah, combination of body type, training, and nutrition. She's a pretty realistic portrayal of how some women that lift heavy will look - and the fact that she could put on that sort of mass in that game world gave something of a backstory.


She's dressed like a race queen rather than in the coveralls that'd be more typical for both the actual job, and for similar characters (of which there are plenty).

I think it's probably a difference in developer approach though. FF games are typically going to use that pseudo-anime, synthetic pretty people look. Can't really judge it on the same merits as those going for a more grounded, realistic one. Or vice versa really.

Absolutely wrong. Abby is what woke trash thinks strong women look like. Absolutely no girl at my gym look like that dude. The stronger ones would look a lot more like this:



Look how Abby is not even stronger than the girl above, but looks like a dude anyways:



And lol:

They absolutely used a male to model Abby. Training and diet don't change things like wrist and hand circumference significantly.

Take a good look at the hands and wrists on a real female lifter (or a dozen of them) then compare to Abby. She definitely didn't skip wrist day.

It's funny how I initially typed "profession" in my original message then changed it to "passion" in anticipation for this reply, lol

Complete with always being covered in grease. Given how much women typically care about & spend on their skin care & overall outward appearance to look pretty, this wilful disregard is typically masculine.

Did you not read anything in a post again, and rage for nothing? Read again.


My post said my definition of tomboy concept was defined by an anime from 1992 in Japan.

So 1992 anime from Japan is woke? Your statement is ridiculous.

Next time, stop assuming everything I said is woke, it's just silly.


Thorny is a Westerner and native English user, I'm not. So of course our perception on what tomboy is will be different due to cultural and language difference.

In my culture, tomboy exclusively means lesbian who took the male role in a relationship. Someone like Haruka in Sailor moon. It has nothing to do with woke brainwashing, it's just cultural difference on how a term is used.

You made WAY too much assumptions in this thread to the point that it's annoying.

This is obvious truth, it's not a woke issue, just different interpretations of a subjective term (does your native language even use the word tomboy?)

Fair warning, I haven't watched sailor moon. A quick google of Haruka doesn't seem like a tomboy or butch to me; the male presenting outfits all come off as well-curated and intentional. I can't speak for all Westerners, but personally I would not consider a woman who puts that much effort into appearance a tomboy.

I think there needs to be a degree of sportiness involved, suit doesn't fit my interpretation of the term. For example, a woman wearing a power suit to work is not a tomboy.

In your culture.. Exactly... Your culture. That's why you are always wrong. Your perv basement culture means nothing out here in the world. In the real world, whether you like it or not, is common sense that prevails. Not this:




Rage? Why would I rage? Making fun of your deranged takes on basic things is rather fun!

Also, before you try to BS with "this is japanese definition" remember that this is not 1920s. We grew up with characters like Yuri from TKOF being the Japanese version of a Tomboy. Your definition is the universal woke cult definition, not this cute tomboy:

Yeah. In LGBT community in my region, we call females who assumed the male role in a lesbian relationship, who often dress up as male and have short hair "Tomboy" or just "T" in English letter.

It's not until Chanti and you posted then I realized in English there is a separate term from Tomboy for male role lesbians.


Haruka is a lesbian who assumed male role in a lesbian relationship, she also dressed up like a guy and likes driving(a male hobby). This is basic "Tomboy stereotype" in my mind. I guess you can use Butch to describe her instead, since she is definitely a lesbian.


Edit: actually, not just LGBT community uses tomboy this way. Other people do too.

I say some for a reason. I work in college athletics. One of my brothers trains for strongman and power lifting. There's a wide variety of body types for both men and women - Abbey at her peak looks like she could have trained to throw shot put, like Brock Lesnar's daughter does - https://csurams.com/news/2024/3/9/track-field-mya-lesnar-claims-2024-indoor-womens-shot-put-national-championship

Are you drunk? Why are you posting a picture that's irrelevant to the discussion lol.

Who gives a ***about what LGBT interpret things? They don't even know how define a woman, let alone a tomboy.


Brock Lesnar's is not what you typically see tho, is it?. Also, she is not a beauty queen but she looks very feminine to me. I went and pick a random picture from google because all of the pics looked like the girl I posted. You got an outlier to make a point.