Addon: SheolHelper

Alright this is lovely then ty Sechs! I asked because, on a side topic, the parse addon doesn't track DPS accurately when people are far from each other, would be great if it did though. Thank you for confirming anyway ;) excited to try it today!

There is a difference between DPS addons and other packets.
The DPS data isn't on a specific damage packet (afaik) but it's one of the chat packets. It's information conveyed to the client through text imbued in chat packets.
These packets get often lost and have a yalms range (is it like... 50 yalms? 100? whatever is).
If you're more than a certain distance away you won't receive the packet containing the information and the parse addon won't be able to process it.

This also is a problem for lost packets.
Any type of packet can and will often get lost, not just the chat ones, but let's see why it's different between segments and DPS.
In DPS you don't have a number, a counter, a totalizer. You only receive single numbers and it's the addon that calculats your DPS by adding all the numbers one by one. If you lose even a single packet, the total amount of DPS will be lower than it should.

With Segments you don't have this issue because you have a in-game built in counter. So even if you lose some single packet that says "segments+20" you still have the overall "total segments: xxxx" counter.
This means that even if there's a hiccup and you lose a couple of segments updates, the nubmers will get perfectly in line with the successive packet update you will receive.


Not sure if I managed to explain myself, I still need to properly wake up lol.
But in general let's say IN THEORY those that normally are the issues that can hinder DPS parsing, are not a problem for tracking stuff like Segments which have a specific dedicated packet and counter.

A better example.

Let's say you hit a monster 10 times with punches that deal 500 damage each.
The overall damage is gonna be 5000, ok?
There is no packet that says "total damage 5000". This value is calculated by the parsing addon because it received the "Sechs deals 500 damage" message 10 times and the addon sums it up to get the 5000 damage total value.
So far so good, right?

Let's say 2 of these packets get lost. The addon won't receive them. So the addon will only count 8 punches and it will say the overall damage is 4000 and you can't avoid that.




Now let's see how this is different with segments.
Segments have a specific packet that says how many segments you just gained and how many total segments you have.
Let's say you start with zero and kill 10 monsters that give 20 segments each. The total will be 2000 and the addon doesn't have to sum up anything, it's the game itself saying that you have 2000 total segments.



Now in the following example packets 6 and 7 will not be received, the addon won't see that "+20" twice
If the addon is correctly coded he will be able to "recover" the +40 segments of the lost packets during the 8th received packet because the total Segments of packet 8 will show a value that's 40 segments higher than it should, so by comparing that value it will be able to re-sync even if 2 packets were lost.

Now I haven't seen the lua code so I don't know if the addon already does that... It was just to say that it's something possible that you can do in theory, whereas for chat messages (DPS info) if something get lost it's lost forever and you can't do anything about it.

You guys wrote so much and you have that info in first post since start..


Just in case if that's not clear. "catch up if you keep killing mobs" means it checks for total segments.

I am going to be forthright with you Baniak, I know English proficiency is not one of your strongest strengths, I clearly read the original post, and my question was not related to lag. I specifically asked if the segment counter will take into consideration if players are scattered or not in same floor/area, in which Sechs was kind of to answer the question, and the reason he wrote so much, was to answer my side question related to parse, in which again he was kind enough to explain with examples. Hope this clarifies any confusion for you.

You are the second person to report this now, does this persist for you? Have you tried several runs and it never counts? Or just sometimes?

As far as Balduran's original question goes: Sechs explained it pretty on spot, and Simon makes a point, but why not go into detail :)
Square stuffed the segment counts into the packet that was mostly used for Voidwalker and Abyssea (when you /heal to read hints about a NM's location). I suppose because there was space in there to use, which is purely speculation on my part. If you're curious I commented on this in the source. Luckily for me this packet not only sends the amount of segments of any kill (I'd argue you could probably even be on different floors, but I haven't tested this [has anyone ever tested killing something on another floor and another person receiving segments?...]) but also the player's current total (your actual overall total, not the current run's total).

This makes it rather trivial to "track"-compare/compute the count against your total segments, just as Sechs mentioned. If you lose packets on the last three mobs though, there won't be anything to compare against and the addon will miss the count from those three mobs.
The opposite also happens by the way, your client may receive the exact same packet several times, which forced me to come up with a little workaround to prevent the same packet being counted several times.

Love your addon, and glad to report accurate figures between client and addon from today's runs using version 1.2 in Sheol C.

The next run I did logged the segments correctly

.. I wasn't confused at all and I might have issue with writing something, but not with reading. So please don't go personal road, or I will go too.

You clearly don't understand implication of what I quoted. That quote indirectly tells you that addon checks for total segments count, because in case of lag it will sync based on total segment count (which might only be a problem if lag happens in last seconds of the run and you wont have any total segments update for addon to sync). It's basically everything Sechs explained, but in short 2 sentences (coming directly from addon creator).

You are ruining all the fun at the end of the run when we are trying to figure out how many segments we got and 3 people have totally different numbers and we spend a good 10 minutes arguing who is right... Good times..

Easy.

# of Bonus Segments * 5 = Total Segments.
OR
x * 5 = y

We kill/open chests after we get the bonus, that's where fun begins ;)

EDIT: It's the best when 3 people rush to 3 different mobs and we WS/kill in last second and we don't know if that registered or not :D Ofc we could simply check segments before entering and after exiting, but where the fun in that :D

I checked against my own logs a few times and normally is correct within ~30 segments.

Checking for today it was 100% correct.

Wanted to report a possible error in the database for Sheol C mob resistance.
The Nostos Ghoul (mage skellies with Scythe).
The resistance tab reports more damage taken for blunt and reduced damage for Slashing and Piercing BUT it reports more resistance for slashing than for piercing.

Are we sure about this? I mean it's true that some mob families inside Sheol have completely different properties from those they have in the outside world, but this feels like a potential mistake in the data, if you ask me.

Can anybody doublecheck please?

That sounds normal to me if I'm reading that right. The skeletons already have slashing resistance which then is mixed in with the Sheol C slashing resistance while the piercing resist they have is just normal skeleton piercing resistance.
I admittedly don't have much data outside of me facepalming at the massive damage drop when some dumbass pulls skeletons in a group that only has slashing/piercing.

Sounds right to me.

Skeleton base should be 125% h2h, 112% blunt, 87.5% slashing, 50% piercing.

In C slashing would get another 50% to resistance, putting it lower then piercing.

Okay, but then can anybody explain why my Fudo WS average was around ~20% higher than my Shining One Impulse Drive WS avg?

If both resistances were the same I guess a ~20% difference could be explained with different stats on weapons, more att, better WS in general etc.
But with Piercing being theoretically 25% better than Slashing, then I can't really explain a ~20% difference in favour of GKT.

Acc was capped, Att wasn't capped. Was Sheol C either first or second floor I can't remember.

~1300 JPs
Grape Daifuku
Honor March, Blade Madrigal, 3x Minuets
Chaos Roll
Sam Roll
R15 Dojikiri / Shining One

Can anybody think of a possible explanation?

Impulse drive set sucks, WS with too little TP. etc

Edit: Want to use impulse with 2k+ TP (after TP bonus+)

I highly welcome discussions about this and if SheolHelper leads ultimately to more people actually testing resistances in Odyssey that's awesome.

I feel like it can't be stressed enough though:
It would seem there's still rather little the community knows about these details or if there are any to begin with. As mentioned earlier, most better known resistances (read: a Lv2 Mandragora from 2002 e.g.) we have in wikis and/or project databases come from people actually setting up little test environments to have constant nukes or swings and then compare medians among all of 'em. Some have done this even for enfeebling.

I'll personally currently not touch this as long as it's not numbers that I completely messed up from known values. The assumption still holds: mobs seem to have their usual resistances and on top of that there's some fancy weirdness going on in Odyssey (which is the famous JPEG tables flying around, which I also referred to for this addon, and some wiki's also do).

Again, please feel free to discuss this, as more discussion will possibly lead to more people reporting/testing! :)

As for Impulse: My experience as WAR is basically what's written everywhere and what Bippin says, if it's below 2k my numbers mostly disappoint. Fudo also gets stronger with more tp but can perform well with less from my experience (or lolmiss). On top of that polearm for WAR and SAM is only B-, Impulse is two hit, fudo is one hit, there's so many variables here.

Another point that might be stressed:
Please don't take the exact percentages in SheolHelper too seriously, as in, please don't compare 5000 non-crit swings of piercing and slashing against same mob with same set with same food and same buffs in odyssey and then come back to here, but rather bring those results to the wikis first, where they're highly needed :)

I would totally try to do some testing myself if it wasn't for a stupid 20h wait for 30mins of time. Oh well...
Also it may be that there's already threads and people who have done some in-depth testing and I simply don't know about it. I feel that even in that case our common place data platforms should be the main focus to update first. Maybe a dedicated Odyssey resistance testing thread could become a thing? (kinda doubt the popularity chances tho [maybe it exists? I'm not too frequently on here])

Comparing 2 WSs with different base damage, number of hits, scaling, pdif caps and one being able to crit to figure out resist to damage type is totally pointless.

Two runs tonight that did not log segments, getting this error when I load into zone

SheolHelper: Lua runtime error: sheolhelper/sheolhelper.lua:249 attempt to concatenate upvalue 'sheolzone' (a nil value)

Did you find a solution to this? I'm getting the same error now when I didn't previously.

They get more elemental resist in higher Sheols. (The Percentages decrease)

From here: https://twitter.com/long_horned/status/1499837524771889152?cxt=HHwWgICjzYiSv9ApAAAA




You can see this page for a Resistance rank chart
https://www.bg-wiki.com/ffxi/Resist#Resistance_Rank

These are elemental resist ranks, not elemental damage taken. They are used to determine resistances and skillchain damage.

Generally if the resistance value is 50% or less you are guaranteed a 1/2 resist or more.

You can see that the Sheol B tigers are much more forgiving with all elements 60% or above. Sheol B also only has 25% resistance to their strong damage types instead of 50%.

Compared to the Sheol C tiger with only 3 elements (Fire, Thunder, Water) 60% or above and 50% resistance to piercing.

Note the Darkness Resistance. 70% in B and 50% in C. This is why tigers in B can be doomed with cruel joke but not in C.

Also, note that there may be copy and paste errors by SE that may not have been fixed. Weapons in B used to blood aggro (which was fixed) etc.

Have had this happen a few times now, I enter C with a negative number of segments and counts back up as we get segments.

No error or anything in console

Thank you everyone for your continued feedback and comments. I'm happy with how v2 is coming along. Might as well upload soon and make y'all my lab rats as it should get rid of most if not all of the last reported issues. Stay tuned.

Not sure if they ever fixed it but Kurmajara (Adamantoise NM) in Sheol C broke the family rule. It had slashing resistance instead of blunt resistance. I don't know if SE forgot adamantoise are lizards and not aquans, or if they just didn't want slashing to be good on every NM in C. I haven't spawned it recently to confirm though or checked what your addon reports it as.

SheolHelper considers Adamantoises, including Kurmajara, to be of the lizard type and therefore strong (read: additional resistance) against blunt.
Have you seen this from personal experience and/or have there been other people reporting this somewhere? Maybe Japanese have some extensive list where extraordinary stuff like that is being reported and we/I don't even know about it? ^^;
Also as usual from a single report like that I have to assume that your assumption might be based on insufficient testing, no offense. If you did test it yourself and/or have sources, it might need consideration, might be even worth a comment on the bgwiki page for Kurmajara. Interesting comments popping up here :)

https://twitter.com/long_horned/status/1427783697655222277

His website is here: https://w.atwiki.jp/bartlett3/pages/313.html but most new stuff seems to be posted to Twitter.

https://www.ffxiah.com/forum/topic/55734/odyssey-segment-farming/3/#3568019

Tried out this addon, and it's fantastic. Would be really great if this could also show current Izzat as well.

Hey Deridjian, have you considered putting this on the official Windower repository perchance?