BST has gotten some updates but look at them in-depth.
November 2019: BST gets 2 pets. Lucani and Watermelon copy-pasta pet. With weaker stats and seemingly faster attack speed. Not used.
January 2020: Can hit 10 second recast on Ready without Charmer's. Great! Ready delay on activation to 0.25 seconds... Too fast to equip ready delay and removed with the same lockout. They have a perfect example with SMN timing and being able to interrupt their animation but nope. Self buffs, which due to limitations most of them don't get used due to party setups.
August 2020:
Better pets with more SC options, Woo! Less variety and damage on most than expected... womp...
Tandem Blow/Strike... 50 acc/macc and 15 subtle blow. Sure, I'll take it. Still think it's weird to tie those to both engaged. Maybe a damage bonus requiring that but that's my personal opinion.
So yeah it feels like whining to some. But they haven't touched most of the actual job's issues. And honestly if they took away Dolichenus and Slug, BSTs power would drops dramatically.
Current State Of BST: August 2020 Update
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Current state of BST: August 2020 Update
Bismarck.Rwolf said: » So yeah it feels like whining to some. But they haven't touched most of the actual job's issues. And honestly if they took away Dolichenus and Slug, BSTs power would drops dramatically. This made me chuckle. I guess I could say, "If they took away Ifrit and Ramuh from Summoner, SMN power would drop dramatically."
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I mean, sure, if you took away dancers steps, it would drop in power too.
Still, fact remains that the problem with bst isnt that it provides nothing or that it is weak. Its that the combat in 11 is clunky and archaic, and bsts design amplifies this. It really needs to be cleaned up so the experience is smoother. theyd still have garuda, siren, and a plethora of support/utility actions to perform all as they choose to since its just a quick summon/resummon on their part not 3~5+ mins between calling pets.
If a DNC lost steps itd just be the same DD powerhouse it currently is, and still bring haste samba/emergency heals. I dont see the disconnect with being miffed bst having to use an axe to get 1 of their phys WS up to a respectable level, mistral can be -okay- but thats about where it stops, the rest are trash, aymur rend can do alright but then you have seraph of both kinds now with daybreak, and trueflight being what it is, rend just looks middling by comparison. Take away slug and what do you have left to bring in the dd/utility front? All the other debuffs are the same -25% that other jobs have/have higher amounts of. You still got mdb-25, theres that i guess, jetts a nice additional niche i guess, a sleep thats got a small radius. So you're left with dmg, and thats already been covered plenty elsewhere
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Take away dnc steps, and its just a worse thf that can sometimes finish off haste for some DDs
Again, making the argument that a lot of benefit comes from a specific pet isnt a complaint, or a valid argument. Taking away utility from any utility job is going to be a massive nerf. Your argument could literally be said about any utility based job. You know there's a problem with axe weapon skills when they create a weapon that has +120% WS damage on it, instead of just.... Fixing the garbage WS associated with the weapon. Dolichenus is basically the only reason BST can compete with anything.
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Lakshmi.Buukki said: » You know there's a problem with axe weapon skills when they create a weapon that has +120% WS damage on it, instead of just.... Fixing the garbage WS associated with the weapon. Dolichenus is basically the only reason BST can compete with anything. Yup. Irony of Dolichenus too is that of the jobs on it, BST isn't even the best with it. WAR and even DRK can take better advantage of it! That simply should not be. Give BST +WSD. Make BST REMA better. Spaitin said: » Asura.Viska said: » so where should Beast sit in the party setup. Needs better utility and or DPS. SMN gives much better support. Pup pet is wayyy more durable. To be fair, SMN support is kind of bad. Beast has limited support but some powerful unique debuffs. SMN's buffs and debuffs are better covered by other jobs, you pretty much bring it on content where geomancy is nerfed and you need Earthen Armor or Carby's enmity reduction. Stunga is very potent, atk down aoes nice, caits always a thing if you want to limit tp, got a fairly potent magic phalanx with all the avatar+ stat available now, then theres not-scherzo like you said. I wont say any of its amazing but its generally decent
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SMN has hastega 2, freeing up a slot for songs (if no RDM), TP bonus, damage mitigation, strongest enspells, but most importantly shock squall. Shock squall lasts almost the duration of it's cooldown, stunning wave 3 packs for 15 seconds then stunning them for another 7~10 seconds a short while later is completely broken, usually all the adds are dead before it wears off, plus you have another single target stun on a different cooldown. If you really want, leviathan also has attack down as well, although not as strong as BSTs. I think BST is a great job for the 18th slot but most of the time if I had to choose between putting a BST or a SMN there it would be a SMN 95% of the time. Even for some 6 man content like cait I'd take a SMN over BST but that's mainly for EA which you already mentioned.
BST is tied to one WS on one weapon for most content. If you don't need the debuffs from the slug pet it's basically a gimp *** WAR, with a hate dump that you probably won't need because you're a gimp *** WAR. If the state of BST is to be improved it needs to have tools which make it more desirable for 6 man content outside of lowbuff setups. If I'm attack capped on VD ambu even as a BRD why would I want to bring a BST (unless you can't use support)? Plenty of jobs have attack down, it's not that special. I agree with others, buff axe WS. Why the hell does one WS get 120% dmg to all hits? Means that WS sucks balls by default is why. change it to like 12% dmg all hits and buff the hell out of that maybe some other axe WS. Or give BST a WSD trait with pet out and just flat out copy paste DRG cause it sure as hell worked for them.
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Comparing SMN and DNC is just being cheeky and missing the point entirely. The point is too much is focused on use of a solitary axe for damage. And one pet that standout amongst support.
I'm not not going to argue if you think that's good enough. You're entitled to that opinion. But I'll say in response that's not good enough. Also don't stick words in my mouth about BST being weak just so you can argue something I didn't say. It's just a super dumb argument. You're literally saying if you take away something that makes a job strong, it's no longer strong.
I disagree 100%, I think BST is fine without Dolichenus and the slug, but I didn't add that because it's pointless to argue with people on the internet. I just got at a laugh at how dumb the argument you made was and wanted to share it. Bismarck.Nyaarun said: » Take away dnc steps, and its just a worse thf that can sometimes finish off haste for some DDs Again, making the argument that a lot of benefit comes from a specific pet isnt a complaint, or a valid argument. Taking away utility from any utility job is going to be a massive nerf. Your argument could literally be said about any utility based job. Not even a worse thf since dnc currently has access to better offensive gears. If it wasn't for FM I wouldn't bother with steps outside of Dyna D. Pdif is easy to cap as it is. Using steps just generates more JA delay for nothing Ermah said: » I disagree 100%, I think BST is fine without Dolichenus and the slug, They are speaking from party perspective, not solo perspective. In a party without the def- and kaja axe people will just invite another job instead.
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Lakshmi.Buukki said: » You know there's a problem with axe weapon skills when they create a weapon that has +120% WS damage on it, instead of just.... Fixing the garbage WS associated with the weapon. Dolichenus is basically the only reason BST can compete with anything. I wouldnt say its indicative of axe WS being in a bad spot anymore than marksmanship WS being in a bad spot because DP gives nearly 50% wsd. They wanted to make a more accessible rema with WS they had avail, and quest WS are outdated, so they brought them up to par with the weapons. Realistically, most axe WS are fine. Biggest issue seems to be empy and mythic are mab based, but bst hasnt had many mab support upgrades recently outside leg piece. Asura.Sirris said: » Lakshmi.Buukki said: » You know there's a problem with axe weapon skills when they create a weapon that has +120% WS damage on it, instead of just.... Fixing the garbage WS associated with the weapon. Dolichenus is basically the only reason BST can compete with anything. Yup. Irony of Dolichenus too is that of the jobs on it, BST isn't even the best with it. WAR and even DRK can take better advantage of it! That simply should not be. Give BST +WSD. Make BST REMA better. Spaitin said: » Asura.Viska said: » so where should Beast sit in the party setup. Needs better utility and or DPS. SMN gives much better support. Pup pet is wayyy more durable. To be fair, SMN support is kind of bad. Beast has limited support but some powerful unique debuffs. SMN's buffs and debuffs are better covered by other jobs, you pretty much bring it on content where geomancy is nerfed and you need Earthen Armor or Carby's enmity reduction. I wouldnt say smn support is bad. Free +250 tp on ws to party is powerful on its own, and it can put up a metric *** ton of buffs of varying levels. I think it comes down to smn having way too many to do with not enough uptime on them, and just having piss poor damage without pet specific buffs. Just too annoying and feels bad. I
Lakshmi.Buukki said: » You know there's a problem with axe weapon skills when they create a weapon that has +120% WS damage on it, instead of just.... Fixing the garbage WS associated with the weapon. Dolichenus is basically the only reason BST can compete with anything. Compete with what? You shouldn't be topping the parse as a hybrid support job. Unless i'm confused, the role of BST is not a DD (traditional) slot. The fact that you can do decent damage WHILE providing buffs/debuffs is amazing. You should be on par with a melee geo. Fenrir.Kaldaek said: » Unless i'm confused, the role of BST is not a DD slot. Generally curious. I almost never party/alliance with a BST, and when I do, it's Dyanmis D where the BST in question is there to unlock ability to upgrade relic gear, and as soon as they do, it's not there anymore. And even then, they always have a sheep in the way. *** sheep! Asura.Kingnobody said: » Fenrir.Kaldaek said: » Unless i'm confused, the role of BST is not a DD slot. Generally curious. I almost never party/alliance with a BST, and when I do, it's Dyanmis D where the BST in question is there to unlock ability to upgrade relic gear, and as soon as they do, it's not there anymore. And even then, they always have a sheep in the way. *** sheep! Look at the direction SE is going with pet abilities. It's definitely a hybrid support role. Same concept as as any other support utilizing DD builds. BRD/GEO/RDM/SMN etc... Fenrir.Kaldaek said: » I Lakshmi.Buukki said: » You know there's a problem with axe weapon skills when they create a weapon that has +120% WS damage on it, instead of just.... Fixing the garbage WS associated with the weapon. Dolichenus is basically the only reason BST can compete with anything. Compete with what? You shouldn't be topping the parse as a hybrid support job. Unless i'm confused, the role of BST is not a DD (traditional) slot. The fact that you can do decent damage WHILE providing buffs/debuffs is amazing. You should be on par with a melee geo. I mean, unless im missing something with melee geo, bst should be well above melee geo. Geo should be above bst in magic setups. I have always figured BST was a sub-par DD who excels more at soloing than other jobs.
Bismarck.Nyaarun said: » Fenrir.Kaldaek said: » I Lakshmi.Buukki said: » You know there's a problem with axe weapon skills when they create a weapon that has +120% WS damage on it, instead of just.... Fixing the garbage WS associated with the weapon. Dolichenus is basically the only reason BST can compete with anything. Compete with what? You shouldn't be topping the parse as a hybrid support job. Unless i'm confused, the role of BST is not a DD (traditional) slot. The fact that you can do decent damage WHILE providing buffs/debuffs is amazing. You should be on par with a melee geo. I mean, unless im missing something with melee geo, bst should be well above melee geo. Geo should be above bst in magic setups. Correct, they serve different purpose (content related). But they fill the same party role. Outside of QoL improvements. BST is in a spot that SE wants it to be in. A Hybrid support role. Asura.Kingnobody said: » Fenrir.Kaldaek said: » Unless i'm confused, the role of BST is not a DD slot. Generally curious. I almost never party/alliance with a BST, and when I do, it's Dyanmis D where the BST in question is there to unlock ability to upgrade relic gear, and as soon as they do, it's not there anymore. And even then, they always have a sheep in the way. *** sheep! Asura.Kingnobody said: » I have always figured BST was a sub-par DD who excels more at soloing than other jobs. We have to maximize the job based on the role SE is designating. Any job with a melee build can be a sub par DD. Even whm with battlemage setup. But that's not the role SE intended it to be. Asura.Geriond said: » Asura.Kingnobody said: » Fenrir.Kaldaek said: » Unless i'm confused, the role of BST is not a DD slot. Generally curious. I almost never party/alliance with a BST, and when I do, it's Dyanmis D where the BST in question is there to unlock ability to upgrade relic gear, and as soon as they do, it's not there anymore. And even then, they always have a sheep in the way. *** sheep! ^^^ this is exactly correct. Afania said: » They are speaking from party perspective, not solo perspective. Ermah, if you feel BST in its current state with most of the mechanics broken is fixed. Hey, good for you. I hear you and 100% disagree. Feel free to go tell SE BST is complete. Saying stuff like I just got a chuckle at how dumb your argument is and wanted to share... *shrug* ok lol. Maybe you're passionate about BST and want others to not see criticisms as devaluing the job. But that's all the energy I got to pour into insults lol.
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Honestly, that's the level that Corsair SHOULD be at, but the broken-ness of the TP bonus gun (for Savage Blade) and Leaden Salute (among other things) makes them a job that can both significantly support and be a top tier DD at the same time.
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Surprised to see people so negative. Would say BST is in the best spot it has ever been in a sense of working with every job in the game. Not just pet only setups.
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Let BST buffs effect party members then we'll talk. If slug makes bst a hybrid support then I guess full break makes WAR one too.
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Even in party setups, bst is fine and can be easily fit into most groups for the slot it would be taking. Only real issue from a party perspective is that its hard to take more than 2 bst, where as you can easily take 5 cor and feel fine about it. Dnc has a similar issue.
Other than that, again, id argue it just needs QoL updates. Fixing the rushed implementation of ready range reduction, mab ws support (partially done this patch, but needs actual gear updates as well), making swapping between pets possible and less punishing while still punishing letting your pet die (such as pet HP>90% = CD refund, like drg and pup) Leviathan.Stamos said: » Surprised to see people so negative. Would say BST is in the best spot it has ever been in a sense of working with every job in the game. Not just pet only setups. I agree here. I do believe their is mechanic issues (QoL). But I also think BST is good outside of that. In terms of cor, it may be OP with savage... Leaden is a dynamis thing. But if you expect BST to put out those numbers you will never be happy.
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Crossbones said: » Let BST buffs effect party members then we'll talk. If slug makes bst a hybrid support then I guess full break makes WAR one too. You are comparing a job that SE designed to deal damage; with a job that SE designed to be a hybrid support role. Compare BST to other jobs that are in the same role. Directly from the playonline website. "Beastmaster Masters of the natural world, capable of communicating with various types of animals and controlling them as they see fit." "Warrior A close-combat specialist capable of handling a wide variety of weaponry. Strong in defense due to the ability to use many types of armor, but unable to use magic." edit: also found on playonline.com "You can change your job any time, and eventually gain the ability to select a support job. With a support job, you can effectively "hold two jobs at once." Want to be a warrior who can cast white magic? How about a monk with black magic? With support jobs, the combinations are endless! As your adventures progress, you may find that new jobs become available. Why not try your hand at learning the ways of the bard, ranger, or beastmaster?" I don't see anywhere that in order for BST to be "not-broken" it must top the parse? |
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