Made a separate thread here to share some thoughts on the update and current state of BST. Before I post to official forums on what I think BST needs tweaking wise, I'd like to share some thoughts and hear others thoughts about what needs tweaking.
I'd love to have an actual discussion and not boil down to a fight over "BST is useful! BST is fine! Players are the ones who suck!" diatribe...
▼ Axe WS are still too weak overall.
▼ Distance is still an issue and jug pets have their own enmity list.
▼ BST has abilities/traits that focus heavily on pets if the damage split is supposed to be 50/50.
▼ Trying to fix BST melee with niche pets just means very restricted versatility.
▼ Issues with inventory.
▼ Fencer not strong enough.
▼ Updating Job Abilities.
▼ Remove Beast Affinity.
So yeah... we got new pets and it's definitely fun but I feel like we told SE "This is broken" and they gave us a pat on the head and an ice cream cone. Instead of making a long post over there I'm going to break it pieces so people can like whatever they feel BST needs.
Current State Of BST: August 2020 Update
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Current state of BST: August 2020 Update
I like the fencer and ws changes you listed.
For Mistral I think that what you listed is pretty much dead on as to what its main issue is. I also agree with primal rend. Big issue there is gear access and ftp multiplier isnt as high as leaden/trueflight. Although due to gear limitations it will more than likely never exceed those two in damage unless they add mab to some of our wsd pieces like relic/af on cor. Bora axe becoming a new elemental ws sounds unique. However personally making it a hybrid i think would be much cooler. Kinda like jinpu. Adjusting bst to be fencer only would probably still lose out to dw offhanding something like renuads axe however. Unless they gave bst innate ja haste through a new tier of fencer. I do feel that it should be on more offensive shields though and be able to hit higher tiers of fencer. I do agree that it feels like we need asjustments to the jobs abilities to make it feel more party friendly because as of right now it doesnt feel like pet or master have much to do when being played as a melee other than ws and ooze/atkbuff for party play. For lowman they actually feel good when soloing stuff. Ability wise. It just doesnt feel like it transfers to party play well.
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Unfortunately the job still needs some TLC. Just like ninja could use some love as well as blu could use new spells to help freshen it up. I am sure other jobs could also use some love like drg having its call wyvern adjusted but this is simply feedback from players who enjoy the job and wouldnt mind something to help put it where square wants it at. Rwolf did request to make this a discussion over tweaking and jobs current state, and not to fight over bst. So please be mindful of the Original posters wishes.
Draylo said: » Yall got like 50 updates, let other jobs have some fun.
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We'll let other jobs have some fun when they stop giving us updates that are the equivalent of if they gave BLU 30 seconds more duration on Cocoon/Natures Meditation and then gave you 4 more damage spells under Unbridled and said okay enjoy!
Then the very last line of the update says, oh also Thibron no longer works offhand. Edit: Joking aside, I actually feel the new pets/moves added a lot more versatility then what we had before, the damage however feels very 30% pet 70% Master and this only goes higher in the Master's favour the higher content you do, it is a step in the right direction though. Great summary. I agree with the sentiment of all listed topics and some of the suggested fixes are very interesting / reasonable. They've clearly made an effort to refocus the job after so many complaints but it still doesn't go far enough. Given all the attention that bst is had recently, its sad that it remains a clunky mess to play. FFS make the HQ jugs consumable and summonable already and put them on a 10 min timer... no one buys more than one anyways so crafters aren't making any real money off it anyways. Inv +30 for me (or my mule since giving up hope)
Oh I should mention the accuracy fix was a step in the right direction. Now when geared for master melee with no pet gear, my pet is not just sitting there wiffing and getting killed by aoe. Well not wiffing now. edit: early send and second para
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I agree with you too OP. I recommend making a thread on the official forums and putting each bullet as a separate post in that topic.
You basically nailed everything reasonably well and thoroughly explain a lot of the shortcomings well, too.
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Strength wise, bst is fine, and doesnt need more updates.
Qol wise, primarily just needs some interactions cleaned up, such as distance between master and pet being an issue when you are both attacking the same mob. They need to fix the range nerf just slightly...
My thoughts are this... when Tandem Strike is active (Only active when you and your pet are hitting the mob) increase range of ready to 10-15 yalms. As soon as the tandem strike wears so will the buff to ready range. Makes it a win win where BST can be on the opposite side of a mob and still issue ready commands... With bigger mobs this is a welcome change and not very easily exploitable if at all.
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These are all great.
I'd add a couple:
Quote: Mistral Axe: Similar to Savage Blade fTP wise but only 1 attribute modifier where Savage has 2. I believe the logic is that axe has a higher base damage (also higher delay) but now that we have a lot more gear which buffs secondary WS stats I do think Mistral Axe should get a boosted fTP to match or exceed Savage Blade, and I don't think that would "break" warrior in any way.
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I made a series of posts on the Official Forums August 2020 Digest for greater visibility. [Link] Like if you agree.
As stated this is not about increasing Beastmaster strength wise but patching over major grievances with Quality of Life changes. Axe WS power needs to be distributed out. Dolichenus/Decimation shouldn't be all BST is regulated to. They gave us pets and buffs but the job still is fundamentally broken. Most JAs need revision. Fencer isn't all that useful outside of WAR. This update only increased the strain of inventory with Beastmaster. It really needs inventory alleviation. They are changing a formerly primarly pet class into a hybrid, it's going to take more adjustments if they are going with the minor increment method. It's not a competition or about BST's being greedy. They've updated more than 1 job at a time. They said in the Digest that job adjustments in the future are for what they deem as strong jobs already and not knowing how to update them. So if you want your job updated then go suggest things other jobs need and why.
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Asura.Sirris said: » give BST the +Weaponskill damage trait identical to dragoon, bonus damage to weaponskills when pet is out. I feel like this would be one of the worst things they could do for the job. If they did it would be a fix where they wouldnt have to adjust it anymore after that. When the job will still have its major flaws. Instead a better fix would be reducing timers on call beast and loyalty to about 30 seconds and 5 minutes on them instead of 5 minutes and 20 minutes. This should allow the job to capitalize the utility of its pets. They also should adjust the pets to make them have more of their utility like leech tp drainkiss and such. I do however feel they should still adjust the axe ws listed by rwolf though. But just a wsdam buff is not exactly the fix needed. Its a clunky fix that the devs wouldnt want to touch the job after doing this update as that would be "good enough" as well as keeps doli as the king of the axes for melee damage instead a ws adjustment would do a bit more. The job needs to be able to use its utility over more raw damage. Otherwise we just wind up with another drg esque pet dps instead of bst being unique. However you do have the right mindset of the job needs adjustments and i agree with that.
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Since they stated many times the current job concept revolves around BSTs and their pets engaging the same target and fighting together, i think a job trait that allowed attack/accuracy buffs to carry over to pet (directly or indirectly, as % of BST's value) would be very welcome, and maybe the single most needed change in order to make that concept viable.
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Kind of surprised nobody has mentioned an iLvl Charmer's Merlin. Losing tp everytime your pet does a tp move sucks.
Ragnarok.Odynson said: » Kind of surprised nobody has mentioned an iLvl Charmer's Merlin. Losing tp everytime your pet does a tp move sucks. Clearly I missed it. How is it fixed? Can you swap it in and not lose tp or can I just drop it and save inventory? Its still listed on the guide.
Ragnarok.Odynson said: » Clearly I missed it. How is it fixed? Can you swap it in and not lose tp or can I just drop it and save inventory? Its still listed on the guide. Can drop it. Just the pants are enough. Cant remember what exactly happened. But think it was merits were adjusted to add +2 per merit on cooldown instead of +1 and they also added a cap of 10 seconds cooldown minimum. Ok, Now I am really confused. I am only getting 15 sec off with capped merits/ and pants
if I use charmer's merlin I am getting it down to 10 sec. 30 seconds base
-10 seconds with merits -5 with pants -5 with 100 gift acquired 10 seconds. Nariont said: » 30 seconds base -10 seconds with merits -5 with pants -5 with 100 gift acquired 10 seconds. Thank you. Honestly, this update kinda widened the gap between master and pet. I wanted the pet to catch up, but whatever.
pets got some decent utility, but it basically ignored all of the major issues. acc/ATK/MACC/EVASION/DEFENSE need a massive boost for the pet. Overall it was a buff to bst. SO a step in the right direction, needs more though. Gonna leave my bst retired. Draylo said: » Yall got like 50 updates, let other jobs have some fun. /cry Spaitin said: » Honestly, this update kinda widened the gap between master and pet. I wanted the pet to catch up, but whatever. pets got some decent utility, but it basically ignored all of the major issues. acc/ATK/MACC/EVASION/DEFENSE need a massive boost for the pet. Overall it was a buff to bst. SO a step in the right direction, needs more though. Gonna leave my bst retired. Draylo said: » Yall got like 50 updates, let other jobs have some fun. /cry True. My favorite "update" was making ready moves instant ...and then rolling them back a month later. That was so inaccurate, unhelpful and completely missed-the-mark, they should be slapped. They're trying, so hurray for that, but ya, pretty much agree with all of this. Just feels like the job is adrift w/o a real plan for what is should be doing. Cause lets be real, solo isn't an option anymore, so where should Beast sit in the party setup.
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Asura.Viska said: » so where should Beast sit in the party setup. Needs better utility and or DPS. SMN gives much better support. Pup pet is wayyy more durable. Drop Call Beast timer to ~2:00 or allow CB timer recast to be reset if you use Leave while your pet has 100% HP. This would encourage more pet diversity, allow BST to be more self-sufficient in groups, as well as increase their utility. It would also align closely to one of their job manifesto ideas from years ago they never implemented:
Quote: * Example Adjustments o A new ability to call forth pets that, like the avatars Odin and Alexander, immediately use their characteristic ability then disappear. Beast already fits into party; Good DD with utility. Just needs QoL so their utility is more accessible.
Drg is the pet job whos pet gives them selfish damage. Bst is the pet job whos pet gives utility support. Pup is the versatile pet job that can pick and choose what it wants. Can do one thing well, but really only that one thing. Smn is the safe pet job that stands back and lets its pet do everything. (Although theres always that one smn with a garland set that kills the AM mob in one shot just to flaunt their mab set...) Call beast timer adjustments to allow for easier pet swapping; hell, a trait that lets you reset call timers if pet HP > 90% like puppet/drg would be perfect for this. Awkwardness of fighting mob with pet and being able to have pet use abilities and still be fighting mob. Youre leashed to your pet instead of the mob itself. Stuff like that. Beast is already in a good spot, most id do buff wise is better magic WS support in gear and getting a few underwhelming WSs up to par (but thats an all jobs thing tbh, not just bst. 90% of relic WSs are just bad, and that needs fixing). Bst really just needs clunkiness fixing. Bismarck.Nyaarun said: » Beast already fits into party And dont you think GEO is a one trick pony? LOL |
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