|
St. Louis Vs. The Police IV: Now it gets real!
Valefor.Endoq
Server: Valefor
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6906
By Valefor.Endoq 2015-03-12 05:18:34
Your odds of getting shot by a cop go down dramatically by not breaking the laws/complying with police officers.
Where was the part in that where the police officers are attacked? Lol.... Did you even read what I said? Attacking an officer would be breaking the law/not complying to a police officer.
I don't understand your question in regards to my post.
[+]
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 34187
By Asura.Kingnobody 2015-03-12 05:18:35
It'd be nice if it went down to zero instead of just being low. You want cops to not defend themselves when attacked?
Well the line was:
Your odds of getting shot by a cop go down dramatically by not breaking the laws/complying with police officers.
Where was the part in that where the police officers are attacked? Good backpedal, because we all know you were referring to the underlined.
The underlined part doesn't make sense by itself. Keep the backpedaling up.
Cerberus.Tikal
Server: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 4945
By Cerberus.Tikal 2015-03-12 05:19:19
I haven't made a causal inference, so no, it doesn't.
Bismarck.Ihina
Server: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3187
By Bismarck.Ihina 2015-03-12 05:19:33
Zero isn't reasonable, but 2.97 firearm related deaths per million isn't a number to be proud of. Hell, India, who has more than three times our population has 10% of that. A number in the low hundredths would be preferable, but I'd settle for tenths too. India also doesn't have citizens actively gunning down cops on a near daily basis.
Either for the dramatic effect, suicide by cop, or as a means to escape from their other crimes.
It has been reported that a cop is gunned down once every 58 hours. When the number of officers are killed goes down, you will see a number of justifiable homicides goes down with it.
Michelle Malkin is so useful. Female, minority AND she loves sprouting right wing talking points. Racebaiting, sexist remarks, and partisan rhetoric. And liberals love to accuse Republicans of doing all 3 of those things.
Lookie, KB's attempt to fake outrage. Let me know when someone outside your bubble genuinely believes you.
Bismarck.Ihina
Server: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3187
By Bismarck.Ihina 2015-03-12 05:21:29
Your odds of getting shot by a cop go down dramatically by not breaking the laws/complying with police officers.
Where was the part in that where the police officers are attacked? Lol.... Did you even read what I said? Attacking an officer would be breaking the law/not complying to a police officer.
I don't understand your question in regards to my post.
I didn't ask you a question.
And KB was the one who asserted that attacking an officer was part of the equation, though I'm sure no one can convince him of this at this point.
Valefor.Endoq
Server: Valefor
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6906
By Valefor.Endoq 2015-03-12 05:22:30
Your odds of getting shot by a cop go down dramatically by not breaking the laws/complying with police officers.
Where was the part in that where the police officers are attacked? Lol.... Did you even read what I said? Attacking an officer would be breaking the law/not complying to a police officer.
I don't understand your question in regards to my post.
I didn't ask you a question.
And KB was the one who asserted that attacking an officer was part of the equation, though I'm sure no one can convince him of this at this point. Sorry, my bad.
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 34187
By Asura.Kingnobody 2015-03-12 05:24:37
Your odds of getting shot by a cop go down dramatically by not breaking the laws/complying with police officers.
Where was the part in that where the police officers are attacked? Lol.... Did you even read what I said? Attacking an officer would be breaking the law/not complying to a police officer.
I don't understand your question in regards to my post.
I didn't ask you a question.
And KB was the one who asserted that attacking an officer was part of the equation, though I'm sure no one can convince him of this at this point. I'm sorry, but are you inferring that police officers randomly shoot people just for fun? Care to prove that?
Bismarck.Ihina
Server: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3187
By Bismarck.Ihina 2015-03-12 05:27:37
I hope you're aware that you just randomly made up two lies in the span of 10 minutes and forced them on to people(me) just so you can attack them.
I think there's a word for that.
Who am I kidding. Of course you're not aware.
[+]
Valefor.Endoq
Server: Valefor
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6906
By Valefor.Endoq 2015-03-12 05:33:46
Your odds of getting shot by a cop go down dramatically by not breaking the laws/complying with police officers.
Where was the part in that where the police officers are attacked? Lol.... Did you even read what I said? Attacking an officer would be breaking the law/not complying to a police officer.
I don't understand your question in regards to my post.
I didn't ask you a question.
And KB was the one who asserted that attacking an officer was part of the equation, though I'm sure no one can convince him of this at this point.
I'm sorry, but are you inferring that police officers randomly shoot people just for fun? Care to prove that?
I know this wasn't directed at me, and I don't know if it was for fun, but there is this serial killer cop. :3
Manuel Pardo, a former Florida police officer turned serial killer who was executed Tuesday, was one of the latter, officials say. He shot nine people to death in the late 1980s, claiming he was a ”soldier” ridding the streets of the wicked.
Source: http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/12/11/15845678-cops-gone-bad-some-notorious-cases-of-officers-who-wound-up-on-the-wrong-side-of-the-law
Psycho's exist. Some may be cops, but it's less likely (I hope)
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 34187
By Asura.Kingnobody 2015-03-12 06:28:26
I hope you're aware that you just randomly made up two lies in the span of 10 minutes and forced them on to people(me) just so you can attack them. notsureifseriousorjusttrolling.jpg
But seriously, you just said that people attacking officers are not in your so-called "equation" of cop related shootings.
Should I point your own words out for you, or are you going to go flower-head and ignore it?
[+]
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 34187
By Asura.Kingnobody 2015-03-12 06:29:28
Your odds of getting shot by a cop go down dramatically by not breaking the laws/complying with police officers.
Where was the part in that where the police officers are attacked? Lol.... Did you even read what I said? Attacking an officer would be breaking the law/not complying to a police officer.
I don't understand your question in regards to my post.
I didn't ask you a question.
And KB was the one who asserted that attacking an officer was part of the equation, though I'm sure no one can convince him of this at this point.
I'm sorry, but are you inferring that police officers randomly shoot people just for fun? Care to prove that?
I know this wasn't directed at me, and I don't know if it was for fun, but there is this serial killer cop. :3
Manuel Pardo, a former Florida police officer turned serial killer who was executed Tuesday, was one of the latter, officials say. He shot nine people to death in the late 1980s, claiming he was a ”soldier” ridding the streets of the wicked.
Source: http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/12/11/15845678-cops-gone-bad-some-notorious-cases-of-officers-who-wound-up-on-the-wrong-side-of-the-law
Psycho's exist. Some may be cops, but it's less likely (I hope) The officers who go crazy are the exception to the rule, not the rule itself, as Ihina was referring to.
By Voren 2015-03-12 06:59:34
"There is no "nice" way to arrest a potentially dangerous, combative suspect. The police are our bodyguards, or hired fists, batons and guns. We pay them to do the dirty work of protecting us, the work we're too afraid, too unskilled or too civilized to do ourselves. We expect them to keep the bad guys out of our businesses, cars and houses, out of our face. We want them to "take care of the problem." We just don't want to see how it's done."
Charles H. Webb, Ph.D.
[+]
VIP
Server: Odin
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9534
By Odin.Jassik 2015-03-12 09:11:39
"There is no "nice" way to arrest a potentially dangerous, combative suspect. The police are our bodyguards, or hired fists, batons and guns. We pay them to do the dirty work of protecting us, the work we're too afraid, too unskilled or too civilized to do ourselves. We expect them to keep the bad guys out of our businesses, cars and houses, out of our face. We want them to "take care of the problem." We just don't want to see how it's done."
Charles H. Webb, Ph.D.
Charles Webb sounds like a guy who has a brick of cocaine in his car.
Seriously, though, you know better than most, getting bad guys off the street is only a small part of what we entrust police to do. I'm afraid it's become the only part that anyone sees and often the only part they perform.
Leviathan.Chaosx
Server: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 20284
By Leviathan.Chaosx 2015-03-12 09:16:18
So everyone is going to ignore the DOJ's report then?
[+]
VIP
Server: Odin
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9534
By Odin.Jassik 2015-03-12 09:18:50
This may sound insane, but... Your odds of getting shot by a cop go down dramatically by not breaking the laws/complying with police officers.
I'm sorry, there is absolutely no justification for shooting an unarmed person who isn't "complying" with police. It's for a court to decide your guilt or innocence and the punishment, not for a police officer to carry out a death sentence on the street because you didn't "comply" with their requests.
So everyone is going to ignore the DOJ's report then?
When the justice department says that your department should be dismantled, it's pretty damning. I haven't had a chance to read the report, but it sounds like exactly what people have been accusing them of.
[+]
Leviathan.Chaosx
Server: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 20284
By Leviathan.Chaosx 2015-03-12 09:21:22
Leviathan.Chaosx
Server: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 20284
By Leviathan.Chaosx 2015-03-12 09:21:56
Ok, ok, good.
Take a read over man. Maybe we agree on some stuff again.
EDIT: Part III and Part V: sections 2&3 are the ones I am focused on.
By Bloodrose 2015-03-12 09:50:45
Reported by the Associated Press.
Quote: FERGUSON, Mo. - Two officers were shot in front of the Ferguson Police Department early Thursday as demonstrators gathered after the resignation of the police chief in the Missouri city that became a symbol of racial tensions following a white officer's fatal shooting of an unarmed black 18-year-old.
The shots were fired hours after Ferguson's mayor announced the resignation of Police Chief Thomas Jackson in the wake of a scathing federal government report alleging bias within the city's police department and court system. Before the shooting, some at the protest were chanting to show they weren't satisfied with the resignations of Jackson and City Manager John Shaw earlier in the week, the St. Louis Post-Dispatch reported.
A 32-year-old officer was shot in the face and a 41-year-old officer was shot in the shoulder, St. Louis County Police Chief Jon Belmar said at a news conference. Both were taken to a hospital, where Belmar said they were conscious, but he described their injuries as "serious."
"I don't know who did the shooting, to be honest with you," Belmar said, adding that he could not provide a description of the suspect or gun.
He said his "assumption" was that, based on where the officers were standing and the trajectory of the bullets, "these shots were directed exactly at my officers."
The protest was a familiar scene in Ferguson, which saw similar and much larger demonstrations after the shooting death of Michael Brown last summer by city police officer Darren Wilson. When Wilson, who is white, was cleared in November by a state grand jury, the decision set off further protests, looting and fires. Thursday was the first time an officer at a protest had been shot.
After the shooting, officers with guns and in riot gear circled the station, and more than a dozen squad cars blocked the street.
Jackson was the sixth employee to resign or be fired after a Justice Department report found a profit-driven court system and widespread racial bias in Ferguson's police department. A separate Justice Department report released the same day, however, cleared Wilson of civil rights charges in the shooting. Wilson has since resigned.
Mayor James Knowles III announced Wednesday that the city had reached a mutual separation agreement with Jackson that will pay Jackson one year of his nearly $96,000 annual salary and health coverage. Jackson's resignation becomes effective March 19.
Jackson had previously resisted calls by protesters and some of Missouri's top elected leaders to step down over his handling of Brown's shooting and the weeks of protests that followed. He was widely criticized from the outset, both for an aggressive police response to protesters and for his agency's erratic and infrequent releases of key information.
During a 12-minute news conference, Knowles said Jackson resigned after "a lot of soul-searching" about how the community could heal from the racial unrest stemming from the fatal shooting last summer.
"The chief is the kind of honourable man you don't have to go to," Knowles said. "He comes to you when he knows that this is something we have to seriously discuss."
By Lye 2015-03-12 10:07:00
How admirable. A mayor who thinks honor is a matter of who calls who first.
Hopefully there are some bright, well-intentioned people that see opportunity to change things for the better in the midst of all this mess.
Then again, for a place that created the myth of the Veiled Prophet of Khorassan, something tells me things will get worse before they get better.
Server: Balmung
Game: FFXIV
Posts: 314
By Cecilia Charl 2015-03-12 11:42:27
How admirable. A mayor who thinks honor is a matter of who calls who first.
Hopefully there are some bright, well-intentioned people that see opportunity to change things for the better in the midst of all this mess.
Then again, for a place that created the myth of the Veiled Prophet of Khorassan, something tells me things will get worse before they get better.
In Ferguson? At this point I feel every time I read something about that hole, my brain cells start to systematically commit suicide one by one.
Leviathan.Chaosx
Server: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 20284
By Leviathan.Chaosx 2015-03-12 11:45:53
Reported by the Associated Press.
Quote: FERGUSON, Mo. - Two officers were shot in front of the Ferguson Police Department early Thursday as demonstrators gathered after the resignation of the police chief in the Missouri city that became a symbol of racial tensions following a white officer's fatal shooting of an unarmed black 18-year-old.
The shots were fired hours after Ferguson's mayor announced the resignation of Police Chief Thomas Jackson in the wake of a scathing federal government report alleging bias within the city's police department and court system. Before the shooting, some at the protest were chanting to show they weren't satisfied with the resignations of Jackson and City Manager John Shaw earlier in the week, the St. Louis Post-Dispatch reported.
A 32-year-old officer was shot in the face and a 41-year-old officer was shot in the shoulder, St. Louis County Police Chief Jon Belmar said at a news conference. Both were taken to a hospital, where Belmar said they were conscious, but he described their injuries as "serious."
"I don't know who did the shooting, to be honest with you," Belmar said, adding that he could not provide a description of the suspect or gun.
He said his "assumption" was that, based on where the officers were standing and the trajectory of the bullets, "these shots were directed exactly at my officers."
The protest was a familiar scene in Ferguson, which saw similar and much larger demonstrations after the shooting death of Michael Brown last summer by city police officer Darren Wilson. When Wilson, who is white, was cleared in November by a state grand jury, the decision set off further protests, looting and fires. Thursday was the first time an officer at a protest had been shot.
After the shooting, officers with guns and in riot gear circled the station, and more than a dozen squad cars blocked the street.
Jackson was the sixth employee to resign or be fired after a Justice Department report found a profit-driven court system and widespread racial bias in Ferguson's police department. A separate Justice Department report released the same day, however, cleared Wilson of civil rights charges in the shooting. Wilson has since resigned.
Mayor James Knowles III announced Wednesday that the city had reached a mutual separation agreement with Jackson that will pay Jackson one year of his nearly $96,000 annual salary and health coverage. Jackson's resignation becomes effective March 19.
Jackson had previously resisted calls by protesters and some of Missouri's top elected leaders to step down over his handling of Brown's shooting and the weeks of protests that followed. He was widely criticized from the outset, both for an aggressive police response to protesters and for his agency's erratic and infrequent releases of key information.
During a 12-minute news conference, Knowles said Jackson resigned after "a lot of soul-searching" about how the community could heal from the racial unrest stemming from the fatal shooting last summer.
"The chief is the kind of honourable man you don't have to go to," Knowles said. "He comes to you when he knows that this is something we have to seriously discuss." Thanks for the repost.
http://www.ffxiah.com/forum/topic/45601/st-louis-vs-the-police-iv-now-it-gets-real/5/#2843773
By Lye 2015-03-12 12:48:28
How admirable. A mayor who thinks honor is a matter of who calls who first.
Hopefully there are some bright, well-intentioned people that see opportunity to change things for the better in the midst of all this mess.
Then again, for a place that created the myth of the Veiled Prophet of Khorassan, something tells me things will get worse before they get better.
In Ferguson? At this point I feel every time I read something about that hole, my brain cells start to systematically commit suicide one by one.
They'll likely come from out of town.
Lakshmi.Flavin
Server: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
Posts: 18466
By Lakshmi.Flavin 2015-03-12 13:32:32
This may sound insane, but... Your odds of getting shot by a cop go down dramatically by not breaking the laws/complying with police officers. It should be 0 at that point already.
Even still, not complying with officers commands or simply breaking a law does not give the officer a right to shoot you.
Valefor.Endoq
Server: Valefor
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6906
By Valefor.Endoq 2015-03-13 00:23:01
This may sound insane, but... Your odds of getting shot by a cop go down dramatically by not breaking the laws/complying with police officers. It should be 0 at that point already.
Even still, not complying with officers commands or simply breaking a law does not give the officer a right to shoot you.Depends on the circumstances. If you pose a threat, then the officer may be justified to use lethal force.
By Bloodrose 2015-03-13 00:38:12
This may sound insane, but... Your odds of getting shot by a cop go down dramatically by not breaking the laws/complying with police officers. It should be 0 at that point already.
Even still, not complying with officers commands or simply breaking a law does not give the officer a right to shoot you.Depends on the circumstances. If you pose a threat, then the officer may be justified to use lethal force. You must become a lethal threat before that becomes justifiable, and in such a case, you've already broken the law.
Simply appearing threatening is not justifiable for shooting *and* killing a suspect, as there are people who *appear* threatening, without actually acting in a threatening manner.
So the short answer is AWWW HELL NO!
By Voren 2015-03-13 00:40:53
Even still, not complying with officers commands or simply breaking a law does not give the officer a right to shoot you. Depends on the circumstances. If you pose a threat, then the officer may be justified to use lethal force.
Only time an officer is justified to use lethal force is when they are faced with a kill or be killed situation. This includes, but is not limited to: firearms, knives, blunt objects (baseball bats, batons, steel pipes, etc.) or when the suspect is using force great enough to produce serious injury or death. This also extends to if an officer sees a suspect causing harm to another person, if the officer feels the suspect is likely to cause serious injury or death to another, the officer is allowed to use lethal force.
Note: this is specific to Oklahoma, however, I'd be confident in this also being upheld in the other 49 states.
[+]
By Bloodrose 2015-03-13 00:42:19
Even still, not complying with officers commands or simply breaking a law does not give the officer a right to shoot you. Depends on the circumstances. If you pose a threat, then the officer may be justified to use lethal force.
Only time an officer is justified to use lethal force is when they are faced with a kill or be killed situation. This includes, but is not limited to: firearms, knives, blunt objects (baseball bats, batons, steel pipes, etc.) or when the suspect is using force great enough to produce serious injury or death. This also extends to if an officer sees a suspect causing harm to another person, if the officer feels the suspect is likely to cause serious injury or death to another, the officer is allowed to use lethal force.
Note: this is specific to Oklahoma, however, I'd be confident in this also being upheld in the other 49 states. It's also pretty much the same, almost verbatim, in Canada as a federal practice.
Bismarck.Ihina
Server: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3187
By Bismarck.Ihina 2015-03-13 00:44:21
This may sound insane, but... Your odds of getting shot by a cop go down dramatically by not breaking the laws/complying with police officers. It should be 0 at that point already.
Even still, not complying with officers commands or simply breaking a law does not give the officer a right to shoot you.Depends on the circumstances. If you pose a threat, then the officer may be justified to use lethal force.
The problem is, what the officer perceptive as a threat is subjected to their biases. Remember the story of the black kid holding a weapon of some kind; the cops pulled up and killed him immediately. Recently, there's a story of some white guy walking around a school of all places, with a gun and the police didn't do squat.
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 224
By Asura.Celoria 2015-03-13 00:50:11
African American
Never understood that phrase personally, if you were born in America and live in American you aren't African.
I am Welsh by family tree, does that mean I am Welsh American? Nope... Just American unfortunately.
By Voren 2015-03-13 01:12:15
This may sound insane, but... Your odds of getting shot by a cop go down dramatically by not breaking the laws/complying with police officers. It should be 0 at that point already.
Even still, not complying with officers commands or simply breaking a law does not give the officer a right to shoot you.Depends on the circumstances. If you pose a threat, then the officer may be justified to use lethal force.
The problem is, what the officer perceptive as a threat is subjected to their biases. Remember the story of the black kid holding a weapon of some kind; the cops pulled up and killed him immediately. Recently, there's a story of some white guy walking around a school of all places, with a gun and the police didn't do squat.
I agree with perceptive, unfortunately the pool of applicants for officers isn't as grand as what you might imagine. With that limited pool you're going to have a percentage that's biased towards one minority or another. My department has a few that absolutely hate Native Americans due to their childhood experiences.
Speaking for me and the deputy beside me, we don't care what race the person is, they'd have an opportunity to surrender, depending on circumstance, and if they do not surrender, they better be at peace with their maker, because they're about to meet him.
St. Louis police kills armed African American teen after chase in a stolen car
Quote: Police officers shot dead a teenager armed with a handgun after he got out of a stolen car in St. Louis on Wednesday night, their force said.
The shooting comes five months after a white police officer shot dead an unarmed black teenager in a suburb of the city -- one of a number of racially-charged cases that have prompted protests about police tactics across the United States.
Officers were tailing the car, which was reported stolen in December, when it struck a wall and the engine stopped, St. Louis Police Chief Sam Dotson told reporters.
The 19-year-old passenger was carrying a Tec 9 handgun when he got out of the car to flee, and officers ordered him to drop the weapon, Dotson said. Both officers opened fire when he did not, fatally wounding him, he added.
One of the officers involved in Wednesday's shooting was white and the other black, Dotson said at a press conference broadcast online. The St Louis Post-Dispatch reported that the shot teenager was African-American.
The teenager died in hospital, Dotson said. The driver of the car, who the Post-Dispatch said was also black, was taken into police custody.
The St. Louis area has been racked with tension following the shooting death of unarmed black teenager Michael Brown by white police officer Darren Wilson in August in the suburb of Ferguson.
The New York Times reported on Wednesday that the U.S. Justice Department would soon close its investigation into Brown's death and clear Wilson of any civil rights charges.
Cue round 2 3 4 of riots "peaceful" protests demanding to convict the officers who protected their lives murdered poor innocent thug teenager who stole a car was doing nothing more than walking down a street.
Incoming Al Sharpton/Jesse Jackson inciting racially charged riots conducting peaceful protests.
|
|