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On Healing Hands - A Comprehensive WHM Guide (V2)
Cerberus.Conagh
Server: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3189
By Cerberus.Conagh 2015-11-29 11:52:54
Also the Inherent gain from Dual Wield in Weaponskills is the additional hit it provides which buffs low hitting weaponskills (Slightly), an OAT Weapon on certain weaponskills would hit the Number of hits per weaponskill cap rather easily, meaning this additional damage from dual wielding is completely lost. For the record, the only form of OAX that works on WS is mythic AM3. So Tamaxchi's OAT isn't going to be enhancing WS at all.
I was only including the Yagrush's OAT, good catch though someone could probably have assumed I meant all forms.
Asura.Saevel
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9910
By Asura.Saevel 2015-11-29 18:19:29
With Joachim + sushi don't have any acc issues. Says 95% acc.
95% isn't capped for dual wielders I thought they increased main hand accuracy while keeping your offhand gimp, you should be seeing something closer akin to 97% no?
Just a quick Pre Lim test using Scoreboard, Dual Wielding using a similar set up to yours, DW did 39% more overall damage.
I have no idea how you got the numbers you did.
Every time I plugged it in, /war with one club was beating. Assume since the delay on a lot of clubs is 350+ each. Not sure though
Absolute delay is irrelevant, only DMG vs Delay matters. Things like Haste and DW are percentile adjustments and effect 999 delay the same as 150 delay. The only time where absolute delay matters is in TP return from WS and that heavily favors DW builds over SW.
Every time I ran the numbers DW came out ahead by a very large margin.
This isn't a true representation of how Delay works in this game, once the base delay of your weapon is low enough, you are no longer loosing TP for equipping more dual wield/Martial Arts, I think it's around 150/140 delay is the low end (300 on dual wield) this was a big thing back in the day for Thief's using a certain set of daggers. While your post was number accurate, it's meaning wasn't obviously apparent for anyone who reads this later, and doesn't check on another class because they took the information as gospel.
But it's irrelevant I guess, WHM can't attain those kind of numbers in delay (yet).
Simple maths however explains her issue with why Dual Wield with an OAT weapon is providing a negative impact, her OAT weapon being in her main hand means any OAT proc in that hand gains say 300 TP a hit, when dual wielding this could potentially drop to say ~ 150, instead of getting 900 TP from an OAT proc, she gets 45 plus the offhand hit of 150, totaling 600.
Once I have 900 TP I only need 1 melee attack to get 1050 TP, with Dual Wield, there is potential I would need 2 more attack rounds assuming no further OAT Proc.
Also the Inherent gain from Dual Wield in Weaponskills is the additional hit it provides which buffs low hitting weaponskills (Slightly), an OAT Weapon on certain weaponskills would hit the Number of hits per weaponskill cap rather easily, meaning this additional damage from dual wielding is completely lost.
These things can massively skewer how the potential parser results.
Now, factoring another aspect if we assume the WHM is meleeing using a shield, with a good block rating, the damage taken from a shield instead of dual wielding (as parry is main hand exclusive) could in it self be the potential to make the shield the better choice when using a Double attack heavy Build and an OAT weapon.
But the spreadsheets don't factor in damage taken + damage reduction affecting real time damage as it assumes some external healing source.
Most of this doesn't make sense...
The TP per hit reduction of DW don't be anywhere near 100%, you actually get more TP over time due to the lower delay having a more favorable TP gain rate. Your also getting more TP back from WS's because your off hand gets a full hit's worth of TP return while additional hits from main hand only get 1.0, this typically cuts one or more attack rounds off your trip to 1000.
What decade are you getting your information from? The 5.0 TP floor was removed a long *** time ago and it only effected certain THF, NIN and MNK builds. With capped gear + magic haste you still need 36 dual wield before you experience negative DPS.
Leviathan.Stamos
Server: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1239
By Leviathan.Stamos 2015-11-29 18:37:33
And Yag is mainhand, just the thing set thing derps.
Cerberus.Conagh
Server: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3189
By Cerberus.Conagh 2015-11-30 12:17:46
With Joachim + sushi don't have any acc issues. Says 95% acc.
95% isn't capped for dual wielders I thought they increased main hand accuracy while keeping your offhand gimp, you should be seeing something closer akin to 97% no?
Just a quick Pre Lim test using Scoreboard, Dual Wielding using a similar set up to yours, DW did 39% more overall damage.
I have no idea how you got the numbers you did.
Every time I plugged it in, /war with one club was beating. Assume since the delay on a lot of clubs is 350+ each. Not sure though
Absolute delay is irrelevant, only DMG vs Delay matters. Things like Haste and DW are percentile adjustments and effect 999 delay the same as 150 delay. The only time where absolute delay matters is in TP return from WS and that heavily favors DW builds over SW.
Every time I ran the numbers DW came out ahead by a very large margin.
This isn't a true representation of how Delay works in this game, once the base delay of your weapon is low enough, you are no longer loosing TP for equipping more dual wield/Martial Arts, I think it's around 150/140 delay is the low end (300 on dual wield) this was a big thing back in the day for Thief's using a certain set of daggers. While your post was number accurate, it's meaning wasn't obviously apparent for anyone who reads this later, and doesn't check on another class because they took the information as gospel.
But it's irrelevant I guess, WHM can't attain those kind of numbers in delay (yet).
Simple maths however explains her issue with why Dual Wield with an OAT weapon is providing a negative impact, her OAT weapon being in her main hand means any OAT proc in that hand gains say 300 TP a hit, when dual wielding this could potentially drop to say ~ 150, instead of getting 900 TP from an OAT proc, she gets 45 plus the offhand hit of 150, totaling 600.
Once I have 900 TP I only need 1 melee attack to get 1050 TP, with Dual Wield, there is potential I would need 2 more attack rounds assuming no further OAT Proc.
Also the Inherent gain from Dual Wield in Weaponskills is the additional hit it provides which buffs low hitting weaponskills (Slightly), an OAT Weapon on certain weaponskills would hit the Number of hits per weaponskill cap rather easily, meaning this additional damage from dual wielding is completely lost.
These things can massively skewer how the potential parser results.
Now, factoring another aspect if we assume the WHM is meleeing using a shield, with a good block rating, the damage taken from a shield instead of dual wielding (as parry is main hand exclusive) could in it self be the potential to make the shield the better choice when using a Double attack heavy Build and an OAT weapon.
But the spreadsheets don't factor in damage taken + damage reduction affecting real time damage as it assumes some external healing source.
Most of this doesn't make sense...
The TP per hit reduction of DW don't be anywhere near 100%, you actually get more TP over time due to the lower delay having a more favorable TP gain rate. Your also getting more TP back from WS's because your off hand gets a full hit's worth of TP return while additional hits from main hand only get 1.0, this typically cuts one or more attack rounds off your trip to 1000.
What decade are you getting your information from? The 5.0 TP floor was removed a long *** time ago and it only effected certain THF, NIN and MNK builds. With capped gear + magic haste you still need 36 dual wield before you experience negative DPS.
Was more for a point of reference with the floor value.
And my point wasn't that it was attainable, but that was the only possible way there could be such a vast difference in DPS on her spreadsheet, depending on which version she's using the values and maths may be based on old formula, that or some massive variance in buffs I can't see any other explanation how the numbers are so..... out there.
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 334
By Asura.Krystela 2015-11-30 12:44:07
Hey everyone,
I will be helping conagh keeping the thread up to date. If there is a mistake feel free to say it or send me a PM.
I will start updating some of the sets slowly as I am new to nodes.
Nice to meet you :D
Cerberus.Midgitis
Server: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 114
By Cerberus.Midgitis 2015-11-30 12:49:38
Good thing, I don't think conagh has healed anything on whm in years.
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 334
By Asura.Krystela 2015-12-01 08:15:30
White mage sets are updated.
If anyone are a melee whm and have some sets to share. Please do so and I will add them to the main page. I am no melee whm QQ
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By Skjalfeirdotter 2015-12-01 11:06:24
White mage sets are updated.
If anyone are a melee whm and have some sets to share. Please do so and I will add them to the main page. I am no melee whm QQ
Doyen Pants should be added to Stoneskin section. Chironic Hat to the Aquaveil section. Gada for enhancing magic. Divinity... Ababinili +1? Serenity... Marin staff +1.... Um... Befouled Crown.... so many other things. ><
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1363
By Asura.Pergatory 2015-12-01 12:02:05
Gada is top for enfeebling as well, far as I know. Also one of the two enfeeb sets has Luminary Sash but the other still has Rumination. Also Chironic Doublet might be able to beat Vanya Robe for that set, you'd need an amazing roll though. Probably not worth the effort, but that's the problem with these guides, where do you draw the line between practical and ideal?
Leviathan Ring +1 is pretty much supreme too even when potency isn't a factor. When you aren't over the dMND threshold, Levi+1 gives MAcc+12 total. When you are it goes down to 7.5 which is still only 0.5 behind Sangoma and is actually ahead of Perception. So get rid of Perception for sure, and is 0.5 MAcc on enemies with low MND values really worth 1 inventory slot for Sangoma?
And then there's the cure builds... I'm not even gonna touch it there are so many opinions on this right now. Mine doesn't really resemble any of the posted ones. I do think the section needs to more strongly encourage /SCH and Aurorastorm though. Unfortunately I've found it's very hard to make a good Chatoyant+Obi+Twilight build without at least 10% potency from gifts.
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Cerberus.Conagh
Server: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3189
By Cerberus.Conagh 2015-12-01 12:55:13
Gada is top for enfeebling as well, far as I know. Also one of the two enfeeb sets has Luminary Sash but the other still has Rumination. Also Chironic Doublet might be able to beat Vanya Robe for that set, you'd need an amazing roll though. Probably not worth the effort, but that's the problem with these guides, where do you draw the line between practical and ideal?
Leviathan Ring +1 is pretty much supreme too even when potency isn't a factor. When you aren't over the dMND threshold, Levi+1 gives MAcc+12 total. When you are it goes down to 7.5 which is still only 0.5 behind Sangoma and is actually ahead of Perception. So get rid of Perception for sure, and is 0.5 MAcc on enemies with low MND values really worth 1 inventory slot for Sangoma?
And then there's the cure builds... I'm not even gonna touch it there are so many opinions on this right now. Mine doesn't really resemble any of the posted ones. I do think the section needs to more strongly encourage /SCH and Aurorastorm though. Unfortunately I've found it's very hard to make a good Chatoyant+Obi+Twilight build without at least 10% potency from gifts.
I personally always drew the line at "around top 80%" on Augments as anything more than that was praying to RNGesus.
Cerberus.Conagh
Server: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3189
By Cerberus.Conagh 2015-12-01 13:15:56
Gada is top for enfeebling as well, far as I know. Also one of the two enfeeb sets has Luminary Sash but the other still has Rumination. Also Chironic Doublet might be able to beat Vanya Robe for that set, you'd need an amazing roll though. Probably not worth the effort, but that's the problem with these guides, where do you draw the line between practical and ideal?
Leviathan Ring +1 is pretty much supreme too even when potency isn't a factor. When you aren't over the dMND threshold, Levi+1 gives MAcc+12 total. When you are it goes down to 7.5 which is still only 0.5 behind Sangoma and is actually ahead of Perception. So get rid of Perception for sure, and is 0.5 MAcc on enemies with low MND values really worth 1 inventory slot for Sangoma?
And then there's the cure builds... I'm not even gonna touch it there are so many opinions on this right now. Mine doesn't really resemble any of the posted ones. I do think the section needs to more strongly encourage /SCH and Aurorastorm though. Unfortunately I've found it's very hard to make a good Chatoyant+Obi+Twilight build without at least 10% potency from gifts.
"BiS" from a pure number perspective is easy to argue, with that said though WHM isn't all about numbers so if you have Good Gear, no ones dieing and you're removing status effects effectively and have no MP issues and you're not taking threat, your sets probably Good and anything after that is more play style / feels. It's a class where gear helps but ultimately the skill of player to stand there and monitor the chat log is key.
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Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1363
By Asura.Pergatory 2015-12-01 15:56:38
You bring up a great point which is that WHM gear is very subjective. They could add a Refresh+10 body and everyone would say it's a must-have for WHM, but it wouldn't actually change anything for us unless we hit a point where decent WHMs are running out of MP again.
Then again, as the last line of defense, you can never have "too much" safety margin. So aim for the moon! Though I still stand by my assertion that anyone with a Janniston Ring is just a show-off relinquishing their claim to a ring that would actually help them.
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Cerberus.Conagh
Server: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3189
By Cerberus.Conagh 2015-12-01 17:15:16
You bring up a great point which is that WHM gear is very subjective. They could add a Refresh+10 body and everyone would say it's a must-have for WHM, but it wouldn't actually change anything for us unless we hit a point where decent WHMs are running out of MP again.
Then again, as the last line of defense, you can never have "too much" safety margin. So aim for the moon! Though I still stand by my assertion that anyone with a Janniston Ring is just a show-off relinquishing their claim to a ring that would actually help them.
Hack the game and have them all!
By Skjalfeirdotter 2015-12-01 18:04:29
Skjalf picked Weatherspoon Ring because it seemed the best overall. Skjalf plays PLD too. Likes to do light-based damage~ :3
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Posts: 1363
By Asura.Pergatory 2015-12-01 18:29:52
I honestly think Weatherspoon is the best choice for WHM. These days the only time someone dies aside from getting one-shotted is if I'm busy casting something else and can't heal them fast enough.
If not Weatherspoon, Woltaris is probably the next logical choice.
Bismarck.Ihina
Server: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3187
By Bismarck.Ihina 2015-12-01 18:39:10
Quick cast caps at 10%, apparently.
Cerberus.Krystela
Server: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 53
By Cerberus.Krystela 2015-12-01 18:42:02
White mage sets are updated.
If anyone are a melee whm and have some sets to share. Please do so and I will add them to the main page. I am no melee whm QQ
Doyen Pants should be added to Stoneskin section. Chironic Hat to the Aquaveil section. Gada for enhancing magic. Divinity... Ababinili +1? Serenity... Marin staff +1.... Um... Befouled Crown.... so many other things. >< Dont need all those pieces to cap enhancing but I will had in possible other enhancing pieces. -Added
Serenity have more macc than marin staff also have more mnd.
I will make a list of other notable enfeebling gear and include both.
As for doyen pants, it doesn't add anything to Stoneskin, it's just an inventory -1. -Figured I would add along with the other -% casting pieces
Cerberus.Krystela
Server: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 53
By Cerberus.Krystela 2015-12-01 18:44:25
Quick cast caps at 10%, apparently.
I am pretty sure I have seen someone what it did cap at 10%. I may be wrong thought. I can't figured out where I saw that info.
Bismarck.Ihina
Server: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3187
By Bismarck.Ihina 2015-12-01 18:47:06
It was a jp player testing it. Sample size was a few hundred casts, sitting well above 10%, but only proc'ed 10% of the time.
I went with Janniston, because duh, and cureskin.
Server: Asura
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Posts: 334
By Asura.Krystela 2015-12-01 18:48:59
I will make the change people have suggested.
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 334
By Asura.Krystela 2015-12-01 18:51:05
It was a jp player testing it. Sample size was a few hundred casts, sitting well above 10%, but only proc'ed 10% of the time.
I went with Janniston, because duh, and cureskin. I have janniston's as well. Used to have Weatherspoon but with all the cure 2 options figured maybe jannistons would come in handy.
With all the cure potency gears available. I could make cure sets for days.
Cerberus.Krystela
Server: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 53
By Cerberus.Krystela 2015-12-01 18:54:03
Gada is top for enfeebling as well, far as I know. Also one of the two enfeeb sets has Luminary Sash but the other still has Rumination. Also Chironic Doublet might be able to beat Vanya Robe for that set, you'd need an amazing roll though. Probably not worth the effort, but that's the problem with these guides, where do you draw the line between practical and ideal?
Leviathan Ring +1 is pretty much supreme too even when potency isn't a factor. When you aren't over the dMND threshold, Levi+1 gives MAcc+12 total. When you are it goes down to 7.5 which is still only 0.5 behind Sangoma and is actually ahead of Perception. So get rid of Perception for sure, and is 0.5 MAcc on enemies with low MND values really worth 1 inventory slot for Sangoma?
And then there's the cure builds... I'm not even gonna touch it there are so many opinions on this right now. Mine doesn't really resemble any of the posted ones. I do think the section needs to more strongly encourage /SCH and Aurorastorm though. Unfortunately I've found it's very hard to make a good Chatoyant+Obi+Twilight build without at least 10% potency from gifts.
gonna add leviathan ring and fix the sash(Was so tired @_@)
I have tried a set like yours ingame, I could literally heal people with Cure 3 xD It was pretty amazing. There is a weather sets though.
As for the cure builds, I could do a million of different ones but if you guys have specific you would like to add |I am open to suggestions.
For the Gada only problem I am having is that set already passes the 500 enfeebling magic skill mark, which I though anything above that wasn't doing any effects. Added
Bismarck.Ihina
Server: Bismarck
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Posts: 3187
By Bismarck.Ihina 2015-12-01 18:59:45
All you really need to care about is capped cure potency, capped cure power and capped -enm, and a chantoyant build for your cure set. More than enough gear available to reach all that 20 different ways. Unless you over-cure, cures become essentially free and all 119 gear comes with a moderate amount of haste already. Whatever cure potency2 you can add on top of that is just cherry on top.
And there is no cap to enfeebling skill. You're thinking of enhancing skill
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Asura.Saevel
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9910
By Asura.Saevel 2015-12-01 19:05:24
Response speed and anticipation are critical skills for any healer. The games 3s global lockout is what kills people. Your start casting something, someone's HP drops to orange, and you have to wait until your finished casting that and then another 3s before you can respond which can often kill them. It's why healers should never let their people's HP drop to under 1200~1500 and also should anticipate the TP moves and be prepared to immediately respond with curaga if need be.
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Cerberus.Krystela
Server: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 53
By Cerberus.Krystela 2015-12-01 19:06:48
All you really need to care about is capped cure potency, capped cure power and capped -enm, and a chantoyant build for your cure set. More than enough gear available to reach all that 20 different ways. Unless you over-cure, cures become essentially free and all 119 gear comes with a moderate amount of haste already. Whatever cure potency2 you can add on top of that is just cherry on top.
And there is no cap to enfeebling skill. You're thinking of enhancing skill
Thanks.
Cerberus.Krystela
Server: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 53
By Cerberus.Krystela 2015-12-01 19:36:33
Will add a list of notable healing gears so people don't feel obligated to get Janniston's ring. I love my ring though :(
Sylph.Ykfan
Server: Sylph
Game: FFXI
Posts: 17
By Sylph.Ykfan 2015-12-01 19:40:22
Does the total 23% cure potency from gift count towards the 50% cure potency cap? If yes, ther would be a lot of choices of equipment to utilize different sets.
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Posts: 334
By Asura.Krystela 2015-12-01 20:07:00
Does the total 23% cure potency from gift count towards the 50% cure potency cap? If yes, ther would be a lot of choices of equipment to utilize different sets. I may or may not hit a brick wall but from what I understood. The cure potency gifts are more like base power and do not count towards the 50%.
But I wouldn't swear and put my hand in the fire for this. Conagh probably more adequate to answer that question.
Cerberus.Conagh
Server: Cerberus
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Posts: 3189
By Cerberus.Conagh 2015-12-01 20:09:45
Does the total 23% cure potency from gift count towards the 50% cure potency cap? If yes, ther would be a lot of choices of equipment to utilize different sets. I may or may not hit a brick wall but from what I understood. The cure potency gifts are more like base power and do not count towards the 50%.
But I wouldn't swear and put my hand in the fire for this. Conagh probably more adequate to answer that question.
Cure Potency is a Square Enix Term, but is not to be confused Cure Potency Percentage, The Japanese Term translates poorly into English but the "Potency Buffs" is not part of the % Cap and nor does it exceed the cap.
It is simply adding 23 to your base power, similar to adding Mind.
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Node 207
Disregardhope is now also contributing to the sets on this guide.
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