I agree with that statement, Kalilla. Which is another reason why PUP will not become bandwagon (it was just a funny thought which I figured would get attention on the title because of the controversial matter of such an outragerous claim. PUP bandwagon? You're crazy! *opens to read*)
But yeah, people know very little about the potential of PUP, so to make blanket statements because they haven't seen a great Puppetmaster in action is wrong. Just because a job with mediocre gear outperforms another job with mediocre gear doesn't mean the merits of having good skill/gear on the job that falls short with mediocrisy is any less worthwile. Jobs should be judged on how they perform at their best, not at their worst/laziest.
PUP In Dynamis
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PUP in Dynamis
If you do happen to lose the puppet during reactivating, you can always Deus Ex in an emergency and light maneuver, it will be guaranteed to have enough MP to toss you a Cure VI and thensome while you fix the situation, so not all is lost.
You forgot to mention that, every range attack of the Sharpshot automaton count as a ws, so, potentially u are looking at every range attack from the puppet to hit proc on ws proce'd mobs. U can go /DNC with some evea gear (like usukane) and won't loose the JA procs. Get Sharpshot automaton with the ws proc attachments + Accelerator II and I (to have the eva as high as a THF) and u will have both JA procs + ws procs. Will loose th+ though from /thf.
Can't keep comparing yourself to perle bsts, unless you plan on going 5/5 aurore yourself.
wait what? every ranged attack is basically a ws and can proc ws?...??
Yes Kalilla. That's why in Abyssea if automaton get's the kill of a mob with range attack it will be a ruby kill.
lolol I'm not a pup, but that's interesting...
There's no really point comparing bst and pup.
You can use sharpshooter/spiritsreaver to outdamage the bst, but you'll have less survivability as once the bst gives hate to the pet the thing lasts forever. You can use soulsoother to have more survivability than bst, but you'll be outdamaged. You can use valoredge and be exactly the same. Well, at least it can't be argued that PUP is the best subless White proc'er while solo, if you are so inclined to do white. THF will be squishy and healess (except bolts I guess, but that won't be enough) and mostly procless and die. DNC will be mostly defenseless and THless and take forever to kill anything because they'll be too busy curing themselves. BST will have no procs or healing. Statues may be an issue to all jobs except pet jobs, because being subless can definitely hurt and getting a link could mean death.
If I wanted to start pup what would be the best way to go about it? >.> I really don't know anything about pup at all .-.
I've wanted to be pup for awhile but hated leveling, then abyssea distracted me. Seeing those video's of pup solo'ing stuff kinda motivated me and this topic has as well :x Start by getting all the atachment and skilling magic, range and melee of your puppet. ^^ GL!
Make sure to get a Percolator, it will help skilling up (wish I had that back in the day) and do the automaton frame quests (assuming you haven't already) Some attachments you can skip, for example I haven't found a use for Vivi Valve (I have one but I can't find a reason to equip it, because my slots are filled with optic fiber/damage gauge/flashbulb/eraser, not to mention automaton cures are usually overkill on the HP pool anyway) Just do a lot of research and make sure what's worth getting right now and what you can get later.
Quote: DNC will be mostly defenceless and THless and take forever to kill anything because they'll be too busy curing themselves The above statement has two out of three rather glaring flaws in it. Pup may very well be the ultimate white proc soloer, but they still need correcting. 1. Capped Evasion + Fan Dance /= Defenceless. I would not even expect them to use Fan Dance unless seriously in trouble. 2. DNC can maintain curing itself and still easily outpace other jobs in the WS department, especially solo and subless does not change that. Natural DW, Haste Samba & Saber Dance when available. Considering they should be /THF if they ARE taking a sub job, what exactly are they losing when they drop it? Additionally every 30tp spent trying to proc JA on steps (with a Violent Flourish thrown in to round to the one spare charge) renders 100tp returned from Reverse Flourish. The whole DNC be weak DD cos they need to cure is only partially true when they are supporting others and even then the WS frequency will be high. Alone it is a complete non-issue and they get access to some pretty hench WS boosting JAs to boot. 3. THless... yup, got me there ^^. If it wasn't for the fact magic procs are ***, I would say BLU was the best White Proc job. Considering they could have upto THII with sash now also.
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Yeah that's true. I'm sure DNC can do fine with white procs but it's still hindered more than PUP is by the loss of a subjob, the stats they will lose will make them squishier and they will still need to rely on TP to cure. It can turn a "barely survived" bad situation into a "dead" situation, they're certainly not invulnerable. Statues will be more difficult as well. But yeah, DNC is definitely the second best white proc'er, actually probably the only job I can think of besides PUP that can do it reliably without massive risk/downtime/slow kills, because both jobs still maintain high healing potential and damage potential while retaining ability to stagger
PUP and DNC are actually very similar in style in solo sitatuons. With nearly identical evasion skill (According to FFXIclopedia, PUP has B but 4 evasion bonus traits compared to THF's 5, while DNC has B+ but 3 evasion bonus traits, making PUP's slightly higher naturally through raw evasion bonus/skill combined), they rely on evasion and cure bombing to keep themselves alive, trading their survivability for lower damage output (in the case of DNC using TP to cure, in the case of PUP using soulsoother instead of sharpshot) the only difference being is PUP's healing is detatched from the PUP while the DNC has to do it themselves. Both also have natural "dual wield" in a sense (martial arts, or whatever hand to hand is considered, but it's similar to dual wielding) so PUP and DNC aren't too far apart in terms of utility, but the pet aspect puts PUP ahead for white procs as well as the ability use the sash White procs aren't worth it while solo.
Well, we weren't discussing whether it was worth it or not :P It was just a side note that if you happen to want to do it solo, that would be the best option. No one is saying it's a good idea or it's viable or will make you billions of gil.
This is exactly how we are making money in Illshowyoulolpup, and everyone who has done it has had great results. It's a piece of cake if you are remotely good at using your pup. Granted levleing pup would be a pain in the *** if you Abyssea burned it, (we have a new member who is doing it, and personally I feel sorry for him having to skill up the puppets) which doesn't make it a great job to just blast through levels to do Dyna with. BUT if you have the time and patience to level, gear and learn the job properly it really is worth it in the long run. Not only do you get a job that is really fun and hard to learn and play properly, but you get a valuable asset for making all the money back that you lost gearing and buying attachments for. More power to ya Zelduh, it's nice to read about people just trying to be informative about different things for pup's to do. All hail the puppetmasters!
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This is a short clip of a dynamis I did not so long ago with a friend. Is not PUP solo or the best quality, but at least u can see PUP is action in dynamis.
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i think i might give this a try it sounds pretty good to me.
Bismarck.Jonadriel said: » This is a short clip of a dynamis I did not so long ago with a friend. Is not PUP solo or the best quality, but at least u can see PUP is action in dynamis. Kenkonken ftw, so jealous dude. Bismarck.Jonadriel said: » This is a short clip of a dynamis I did not so long ago with a friend. Is not PUP solo or the best quality, but at least u can see PUP is action in dynamis. Robyn's Indestructible is a awesome song, too. Hmm...my pup has been 75 for quite a while now....maybe I should level it and at least try it. UGH, I hate leveling.
Shiva.Zelduh said: » With nearly identical evasion skill (According to FFXIclopedia, PUP has B but 4 evasion bonus traits compared to THF's 5, while DNC has B+ but 3 evasion bonus traits, making PUP's slightly higher naturally through raw evasion bonus/skill combined), they rely on evasion and cure bombing to keep themselves alive, trading their survivability for lower damage output (in the case of DNC using TP to cure, in the case of PUP using soulsoother instead of sharpshot) the only difference being is PUP's healing is detatched from the PUP while the DNC has to do it themselves. (Note: I know I haven't levelled PUP, but I do not make any assumptions about the job.) I know how the job works and I've leveled it :P Even with capped evasion you will still get hit and eventually need to toss a cure, on any job without shadows or ridiculous damage mitigation. There's this thing called the evasion floor. Not to mention not everything is evadeable (magic, weaponskills, AoE in general, etc) I'm not putting it down or anything and I didn't say 7 evasion would make a gigantic difference, I was just pointing out minor details. If you're not using NIN sub you're going to get hit with something, sometime, no matter what you do. DNC makes the same sacrifice as PUP for the ability to heal themselves. They lose TP which translates to damage. PUP loses some damage dealing power from using weaker pet physically, but they don't sacrifice EVERYTHING, they still have their full 100% master damage and the pet can still do damage plus haste them, so it balances out to DNC "only" losing TP. I assure you.
You describe DNC as if they are constantly being blasted by damage.
Zelduh said: » DNC will be mostly defenseless and THless and take forever to kill anything because they'll be too busy curing themselves. This is not the case I assure you. I rarely need to cure myself on DNC and when I do I often have excess TP because I am killing the mob faster than I can proc it. Also, DNC 66 =/= DNC 99. What form of defense do you have besides fan dance (which you said you'll be fulltiming saber) and evasion, may I ask? Absolutely none. That's why I said PUP and DNC is similar in that fashion: Their defense capabilities rely on EVASION and CURING. What is arguable about that? Nothing. You still have paper defense past your evasion, so yes can still take damage. You're not invulnerable. My DNC is 66 but that doesn't matter I'm aware of game mechanics and how evasion works, there's literally no difference assuming equal evasion skill. Your 99 DNC and my 99 PUP will evade the same, so I don't need to know how badass your DNC is to know how much you need to cure yourself or not :P You still need to do it, and DNC's damage output is less as a DD than PUP.
Don't understimate it, it's the fastest job I think and with saber dance it's not bad at all.
Dude calm down.
Evasion is enough of a defense. That and proccing. Once I proc a mob, it generally dies before it unprocs. On DNC/THF, I averaged about 200 a night solo dreamlands at 95. I have been duoing since 99 cap, so I can't give you any numbers for that. All I ask is you stop making false assumptions about DNC when you have no idea. Uh, I have plenty of idea. I'm not underestimating it, but you're basically saying it's better than PUP. It's not. I said they solo in a similar fashion. But if you're gonna start an epeen swinging contest, PUP is definitely the better damage dealer. Seeing as it's an actual DD and not a frontline support job. On anything that matters PUP will win >_> But that has nothing to do with this discussion. Fastest job =/= most damaging.
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