The Last Dance: Gearing Paradigms For A New Age
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The Last Dance: Gearing Paradigms for a New Age
I very much look forward to seeing some updates, particularly the legs v. feet debate. Thank you to everyone who does calculations so I don't have to.
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I'd love to post my 3 (x2) basic TP sets to get some suggestions but I suppose I'll wait for Skudo to update the guide then ^^
Cheers man Go ahead and post them. I most likely won't be done before the weekend. ;-(
I'm a patient galka B)
Plus I have a strange view on the thing. I'm not a career DNC, most of the time I'd rather use a piece that I already have (shared with other jobs) to save inventory space, than get a DNC-only item. Provided the difference is small, when it gets too big of course I can't avoid getting specific pieces... Either way, here we go.
First set is for when I'm solo with no buffs. Second set is for when I have some haste, at least 30%, didn't include hastesamba in this amount. Third set is for when I have a *** of haste and want to get rid of all DW stuff. Horos Tights +1 when Saber Dance is up (I have 5/5). Each of those 3 sets also has an accuracy variant, not too big because it's not like my DNC would ever be brought to stuff like 133+ Incursion. Mostly swap stuff like: Sabebus offhand, Honed Tathlum, Whirlpool Mask, Iqabi Necklace, Horos Casaque +1, Buremte Gloves, Toetapper Mantle, Anguinus Belt, Manibozho Brais. Uh that's all? Some considerations I'm already aware of:
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Your solo set is not gearhaste capped.
Kaabnax with haste/fc augment on them will get you to cap gearhaste without having to resort to other options like haste augment ejekamal mask. I use the kaabnax pants in my fastcast utsu set when dnc/nin as well so they get multi-use. I do have Kaabnax with Haste/FC augment (I use it in my ninjutsu precast sets, shared among many jobs), last time I spreadsheeted it it came behind Quiahuiz but now that I think about it, it sounds impossible.
Good one, I'll change that and thanks :D Edit: Oh I probably must have done the previous test with Ionis buff turned on. That's why Quiahuiz was above I guess Asura.Sechs said: » Some considerations I'm already aware of:
For uncapped delay sets: Toetapper w/ 3%+ DW > Vellaunus' +1 (DW+2 and a beefy Atk+25) > Toetapper w/ 1~2% DW. Vell+1 might get easier/cheaper to obtain with a nearly month long Surge Walk campaign starting in a couple days. I just grabbed Sombra Tights (NQ) for only 120k, there were 18 up on AH on my server... prices may get cheap on yours too if not already. They're nice for unbuffed solo stuff (say, Dyna/Salvage). Quote: [*]I have Umuthi Gloves because... at the time I had no other better option lol. Plus I liked the 5% PDT. With no intention to buy the expensive Nomkahpa +1 another option I could use is Nilas Gloves. I wouldn't use them for first set maybe (PDT!) but for the other 2 it should be better, and given the state of tanking atm I shouldn't worry too much about the +5 enmity. For other low acc set hands options, I was using Qaaxo A (Atk+15/Eva+15/DA+2 augment) until I got Nom.+1. Though Nom+1 are obviously better, the difference isn't too huge and both pieces fill a very similar role. I'm fond of Umuthi for my DNC Acc set, because usually any time I need heavier Acc, what I'm fighting is dangerous enough that the PDT is not insignificant (especially when I'm /WAR). Really like that mix of Acc/PDT, also found on some other good options: Horos+1 body, Qaaxo B legs/feet, Patricius Ring... I find DNC really good in Incursion, and at higher levels that's the main place in today's FFXI where I actually end up using Acc gear. I will use the spreadsheet Tojil model (1900 DEF, 200 VIT) for my math, as well as Izhiikoh + Atoyac OAT/critical hit rate. Derps wielders probably are aware of how absolutely underwhelming DA+5 is; in the TP gear I am assuming, that's in the ballpark of 0.012 extra swings with AM3 up. That cannot ever beat Store TP +15.
The strategy I am assuming for non-Derps is to use Rudra's Storm at as close to 2000 effective TP as possible. The competing strategy, using Pyrrhic Kleos at 1000 TP, is better in theory, but it falls behind easily in practice, because Pyrrhic Kleos does not deal well with TP overflow. For starters, I'm assuming non-SP buffs and debuffs at the level of a WHM, BRD, GEO, COR, DNC, SAM party: * Capped magic Haste (Victory March, Advancing March, Haste) * Haste Samba (this is a wonky assumption, to be fair, because you could cap delay reduction with some Dual Wield gear...) * Samurai Roll giving Store TP +62 * Enough buffs and debuffs to cap Attack (pick enough from Dia IV, Berserk, Valor Minuet V, Chaos Roll, Frailty, Fury) * Enough buffs and debuffs to cap hit rate (Blade Madrigal and Aggressor should do that) * Boost-STR * Ionis * Magma Steak, because steaks are yummy tl;dr: With this setup, Horos Tights +1 fall behind, because the average TP for Rudra's Storm is by almost 100 TP lower, which translates into 0.9 http://fTP. If we add one extra attack round to Horos Tights +1, we will end up with stronger WSs, but that increase does not make up for those 1.2 seconds required for said extra round. Horos Toe Shoes +1 combined with Iuitl Tights +1 w/ DA+2 are better than Horos Toe Shoes +1 combined with Qaaxo Leggings C15. Quiahuiz Trousers with STR augmentes are behind by 0.15%-ish, so practically equal to Iuitl Tights +1. You will find it awkward that I'm using Qaaxo Leggings C15 instead of the A15 version. The main reason for that choice is that C15 actually performs better here than A15, due to fSTR. I think someone mentioned that a few pages ago. Or it was mentioned on THF forums. I don't have internets as of right now. Quote: ************************************************* ****** Horos Tights +1, Qaaxo Leggings C15 ****** ************************************************* ================= White damage ================= 254 STR (14 fSTR), 249 DEX 2 QA, 13 TA, 42 DA (including Saber Dance) 30% critical hit rate +16% critical hit damage (including job trait) # of main hand attacks: 1.672 # of main hand crits: 1.672 * 30% = 0.501 # of main hand non-crits: 1.672 - 0.501 = 1.171 Main hand total damage: (0.501 * 3 * 1.16 + 1.171 * 2.25) * (108 + 14) = 534.519 # of off hand attacks: 1.870 # of off hand crits: 1.870 * 30% = 0.561 # of off hand non-crits: 1.870 - 0.561 = 1.309 Off hand total damage: (0.561 * 3 * 1.16 + 1.309 * 2.25) * (97 + 14) = 543.827 Attacks per round: 1.672 + 1.870 = 3.543 Base TP per round: 54 * 3.543 = 191.353 TP per round: 191.353 * (1 + 82 / 100) = 348.263 ================= Rudra's Storm ================= 256 STR (15 fSTR), 308 DEX 0 QA, 2 TA, 25 DA (including Saber Dance) TP Bonus +250 Average TP used for WS: 1589.615 Effective TP for WS: 1839.615 Number of hits for WS: 2.570 Main hand damage: (123 + 246.4 * 13.556 + 123 + 246.4 * 0.285) * 2.25 = 11504.391 Off hand damage: (112 + 246.4) * 1.285 * 2.25 = 1036.224 Total damage: 12540.615 TP return on WS: 206.934 ==================== Summary ==================== Number of attack rounds: 4 TP gain per cycle: 206.934 + 4 * 348.263 = 1589.615 White damage per cycle: 4313.388 WS damage per cycle: 12540.615 Total damage per cycle: 16854.003 Total dps: 2298.273 ************************************************* *** Iuitl Tights +1 (DA), Horos Toe Shoes +1 **** ************************************************* ================= White damage ================= 240 STR (11 fSTR), 252 DEX 2 QA, 13 TA, 39 DA (including Saber Dance) 31% critical hit rate +16% critical hit damage (including job trait) # of main hand attacks: 1.647 # of main hand crits: 1.647 * 31% = 0.510 # of main hand non-crits: 1.647 - 0.510 = 1.136 Main hand total damage: (0.510 * 3 * 1.16 + 1.136 * 2.25) * (108 + 11) = 515.814 # of off hand attacks: 1.855 # of off hand crits: 1.855 * 31% = 0.575 # of off hand non-crits: 1.855 - 0.575 = 1.280 Off hand total damage: (0.575 * 3 * 1.16 + 1.280 * 2.25) * (97 + 11) = 527.253 Attacks per round: 1.647 + 1.855 = 3.502 Base TP per round: 54 * 3.502 = 189.143 TP per round: 189.143 * (1 + 97 / 100) = 372.613 ================= Rudra's Storm ================= 256 STR (15 fSTR), 308 DEX 0 QA, 2 TA, 25 DA (including Saber Dance) TP Bonus +250 Average TP used for WS: 1687.012 Effective TP for WS: 1937.012 Number of hits for WS: 2.570 Main hand damage: (123 + 246.4 * 14.433 + 123 + 246.4 * 0.285) * 2.25 = 12232.962 Off hand damage: (112 + 246.4) * 1.285 * 2.25 = 1036.224 Total damage: 13269.186 TP return on WS: 206.934 ==================== Summary ==================== Number of attack rounds: 4 TP gain per cycle: 206.934 + 4 * 372.613 = 1687.012 White damage per cycle: 4172.273 WS damage per cycle: 13269.186 Total damage per cycle: 17441.459 Total dps: 2378.380 Removing Samurai Roll entirely does mean that Horos Tights +1 pull ahead, but only if you insist on swinging for the same number of attack rounds on both sets. Horos Toe Shoes +1 lets you cut one attack round, which ends up being better. Quote: ************************************************* ****** Horos Tights +1, Qaaxo Leggings C15 ****** ************************************************* ================= White damage ================= 254 STR (14 fSTR), 249 DEX 2 QA, 13 TA, 42 DA (including Saber Dance) 30% critical hit rate +16% critical hit damage (including job trait) # of main hand attacks: 1.672 # of main hand crits: 1.672 * 30% = 0.501 # of main hand non-crits: 1.672 - 0.501 = 1.171 Main hand total damage: (0.501 * 3 * 1.16 + 1.171 * 2.25) * (108 + 14) = 534.519 # of off hand attacks: 1.870 # of off hand crits: 1.870 * 30% = 0.561 # of off hand non-crits: 1.870 - 0.561 = 1.309 Off hand total damage: (0.561 * 3 * 1.16 + 1.309 * 2.25) * (97 + 14) = 543.827 Attacks per round: 1.672 + 1.870 = 3.543 Base TP per round: 54 * 3.543 = 191.353 TP per round: 191.353 * (1 + 20 / 100) = 229.624 ================= Rudra's Storm ================= 256 STR (15 fSTR), 308 DEX 0 QA, 2 TA, 25 DA (including Saber Dance) TP Bonus +250 Average TP used for WS: 1050.722 Effective TP for WS: 1300.722 Number of hits for WS: 2.570 Main hand damage: (123 + 246.4 * 8.706 + 123 + 246.4 * 0.285) * 2.25 = 7473.289 Off hand damage: (112 + 246.4) * 1.285 * 2.25 = 1036.224 Total damage: 8509.513 TP return on WS: 139.065 ==================== Summary ==================== Number of attack rounds: 4 TP gain per cycle: 139.065 + 4 * 229.624 = 1050.722 White damage per cycle: 4313.388 WS damage per cycle: 8509.513 Total damage per cycle: 12822.901 Total dps: 1748.577 ************************************************* *** Iuitl Tights +1 (DA), Horos Toe Shoes +1 **** ************************************************* ================= White damage ================= 240 STR (11 fSTR), 252 DEX 2 QA, 13 TA, 39 DA (including Saber Dance) 31% critical hit rate +16% critical hit damage (including job trait) # of main hand attacks: 1.647 # of main hand crits: 1.647 * 31% = 0.510 # of main hand non-crits: 1.647 - 0.510 = 1.136 Main hand total damage: (0.510 * 3 * 1.16 + 1.136 * 2.25) * (108 + 11) = 515.814 # of off hand attacks: 1.855 # of off hand crits: 1.855 * 31% = 0.575 # of off hand non-crits: 1.855 - 0.575 = 1.280 Off hand total damage: (0.575 * 3 * 1.16 + 1.280 * 2.25) * (97 + 11) = 527.253 Attacks per round: 1.647 + 1.855 = 3.502 Base TP per round: 54 * 3.502 = 189.143 TP per round: 189.143 * (1 + 35 / 100) = 255.344 ================= Rudra's Storm ================= 256 STR (15 fSTR), 308 DEX 0 QA, 2 TA, 25 DA (including Saber Dance) TP Bonus +250 Average TP used for WS: 1153.601 Effective TP for WS: 1403.601 Number of hits for WS: 2.570 Main hand damage: (123 + 246.4 * 9.632 + 123 + 246.4 * 0.285) * 2.25 = 8242.857 Off hand damage: (112 + 246.4) * 1.285 * 2.25 = 1036.224 Total damage: 9279.081 TP return on WS: 139.065 ==================== Summary ==================== Number of attack rounds: 4 TP gain per cycle: 139.065 + 4 * 255.344 = 1153.601 White damage per cycle: 4172.273 WS damage per cycle: 9279.081 Total damage per cycle: 13451.354 Total dps: 1834.275 So nothing really new that couldn't be figured out by just using spreadsheets; I guess doing it as detailed as this helps understanding the differences better. Especially since all the spreadsheet magic is hidden neatly, so you don't get to see it as easily. If we don't use fixed attack round numbers for calculation, choosing the right number to hit 1750 TP instead, things get a bit closer with Horos Toe Shoes +1 still ahead: Quote: ************************************************* ****** Horos Tights +1, Qaaxo Leggings C15 ****** ************************************************* ================= White damage ================= 254 STR (14 fSTR), 249 DEX 2 QA, 13 TA, 42 DA (including Saber Dance) 30% critical hit rate +16% critical hit damage (including job trait) # of main hand attacks: 1.672 # of main hand crits: 1.672 * 30% = 0.501 # of main hand non-crits: 1.672 - 0.501 = 1.171 Main hand total damage: (0.501 * 3 * 1.16 + 1.171 * 2.25) * (108 + 14) = 534.519 # of off hand attacks: 1.870 # of off hand crits: 1.870 * 30% = 0.561 # of off hand non-crits: 1.870 - 0.561 = 1.309 Off hand total damage: (0.561 * 3 * 1.16 + 1.309 * 2.25) * (97 + 14) = 543.827 Attacks per round: 1.672 + 1.870 = 3.543 Base TP per round: 54 * 3.543 = 191.353 TP per round: 191.353 * (1 + 82 / 100) = 348.263 ================= Rudra's Storm ================= 256 STR (15 fSTR), 308 DEX 0 QA, 2 TA, 25 DA (including Saber Dance) TP Bonus +250 Average TP used for WS: 1750.003 Effective TP for WS: 2000.003 Number of hits for WS: 2.570 Main hand damage: (123 + 246.4 * 15.000 + 123 + 246.4 * 0.285) * 2.25 = 12704.129 Off hand damage: (112 + 246.4) * 1.285 * 2.25 = 1036.224 Total damage: 13740.353 TP return on WS: 209.559 ==================== Summary ==================== Number of attack rounds: 4.453 TP gain per cycle: 209.559 + 4.453 * 348.263 = 1750.003 White damage per cycle: 4801.879 WS damage per cycle: 13740.353 Total damage per cycle: 18542.232 Total dps: 2336.078 ************************************************* *** Iuitl Tights +1 (DA), Horos Toe Shoes +1 **** ************************************************* Izhiikoh (108 DMG, 200 delay) // Atoyac (97 DMG, 200 delay) ================= White damage ================= 240 STR (11 fSTR), 252 DEX 2 QA, 13 TA, 39 DA (including Saber Dance) 31% critical hit rate +16% critical hit damage (including job trait) # of main hand attacks: 1.647 # of main hand crits: 1.647 * 31% = 0.510 # of main hand non-crits: 1.647 - 0.510 = 1.136 Main hand total damage: (0.510 * 3 * 1.16 + 1.136 * 2.25) * (108 + 11) = 515.814 # of off hand attacks: 1.855 # of off hand crits: 1.855 * 31% = 0.575 # of off hand non-crits: 1.855 - 0.575 = 1.280 Off hand total damage: (0.575 * 3 * 1.16 + 1.280 * 2.25) * (97 + 11) = 527.253 Attacks per round: 1.647 + 1.855 = 3.502 Base TP per round: 54 * 3.502 = 189.143 TP per round: 189.143 * (1 + 97 / 100) = 372.613 ================= Rudra's Storm ================= 256 STR (15 fSTR), 308 DEX 0 QA, 2 TA, 25 DA (including Saber Dance) TP Bonus +250 Average TP used for WS: 1750.001 Effective TP for WS: 2000.001 Number of hits for WS: 2.570 Main hand damage: (123 + 246.4 * 15.000 + 123 + 246.4 * 0.285) * 2.25 = 12704.128 Off hand damage: (112 + 246.4) * 1.285 * 2.25 = 1036.224 Total damage: 13740.352 TP return on WS: 209.559 ==================== Summary ==================== Number of attack rounds: 4.162 TP gain per cycle: 209.559 + 4.162 * 372.613 = 1750.001 White damage per cycle: 4341.250 WS damage per cycle: 13740.352 Total damage per cycle: 18081.602 Total dps: 2395.125
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Damn. I just realised I assumed 100% hit rate, instead of 99%. So numbers are higher than they really should be, but that shouldn't change anything relevant in the actual Tights vs Toe Shoes debate.
Wow, superb explanation. Thank you a ton, Skudo.
Thank you guys for this awesome feed, I was wondering though about this set for Rudra and how its compared to the one discussed earlier.
Any feedback would be highly appreciated in regards to pairing Twashtar 99 with Coruscanti and the minor changes in gear set. ItemSet 331717 I had a question about GearSwap for DNC, and I wasn't sure if I should ask here on in the GS support thread, but I figured you'd all know DNC specific problems better. I'm not sure how to write my file to have it swap to gender specific items, specifically the reforged AF pieces. Any help would be greatly appreciated, thanks.
Coruscanti is DOA.
{Please do not abbreviate your words}
dont use it. not an item level weapon, so you're losing over 200 accuracy and attack on your offhand by equipping it in addition to loads of base damage.
Valefor.Prothescar said: » dont use it. not an item level weapon, so you're losing over 200 accuracy and attack in your offhand by equipping it in addition to loads of base damage. That only applies to the "Magic Accuracy Skill +X" part.
The weapon skill + X works independently on each weapon and gives both attack and accuracy. For H2H it also gives +base damage, in tiers. Asura.Sechs said: » That only applies to the "Magic Accuracy Skill +X" part. The weapon skill + X works independently on each weapon and gives both attack and accuracy. For H2H it also gives +base damage, in tiers. Can someone post what weapon skill gear I should use for Rudra's storm, Pyrrhic Kleos and Evisceration if you can please :) trying to see what I need to work on any help be great :)?
Stuff depends on a few things, e. g. if you're attack capped. I'm assuming uncapped by a fair bit, so Attack gear actually is useful still.
Rudra's Storm: ItemSet 331564 Use Horos Tiara +1, when not stacked with Climactic Flourish. Pyrrhic Kleos: Izhiikoh / Atoyac / - / Floestone Highwing Helm / Elemental Gorget / Bladeborn Earring / Steelflash Earring Dread Jupon / Nomkahpa Mittens +1 / Ifrit Ring +1 / Epona's Ring Vespid Mantle / Elemental Belt / Quiahuiz Trousers (STR) / Qaaxo Leggings C15 Evisceration: Izhiikoh / Atoyac / - / Charis Feather Uk'uxkaj Cap (DEX) / Elemental Gorget / Jupiter's Pearl / Moonshade Earring (ATK + TP Bonus) Dread Jupon / Nomkahpa Mittens +1 / Ramuh Ring +1 / Epona's Ring Rancorous Mantle / Elemental Belt / Manibozho Brais A15 / Qaaxo Leggings C15 Sorry for fugly layout. Mobile onry. Christmas present for Dancers incoming tomorrow, btw. Horos Tiara +1 beats out a Dex Uk? Wow, I did not see that happening. I figured the extra DEX on the Uk would have pushed it ahead.
Uk'uxkaj with DEX pulls ahead at some point, but in unbuffed situations, your attack is low enough for Horos +1 to pull ahead even against DC stuff already.
Now that we're talking about it: Chances are that Potestas/Floestone is better than Charis Feather, too, given that far from cap assumption for our attack. I think I ran into that spot at some point whilst working on the DNC guide. Unless you have a GEO.
whats good up to date PDT set for dnc ?
ItemSet 327780
This is my set with Emet Harness +1 (I don't think it's on XIAH yet). Iuitl pieces have 4% PDT and generally/always some amount of MDT (I forget). Hands also have max Accuracy+, which makes them slightly better than Umuthi for Acc, I think. |
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