SAM Atma

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SAM Atma
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 Pandemonium.Ironguy
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By Pandemonium.Ironguy 2011-07-19 13:28:20
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Ifrit.Eikechi said:
lion gives no att boost though, just the same TA as A&O. And ya I see your point with the kabuto and tiara due to regain.. I guess thats a fair point as well. I forgot VV was 5% DA not 10 as well lol

that's right, lion grants no attack (and infact 3% less triple attack too), but the alternative of it is that you gain 25% hp back and the -10% -physical on top of it
 Ifrit.Eikechi
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By Ifrit.Eikechi 2011-07-19 13:30:57
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25% hp isn't a huge deal and pdt gear is pdt gear... sam has a lot of it with arhat's set and such...so i see that 10 pdt as rather irrelevant
 Pandemonium.Ironguy
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By Pandemonium.Ironguy 2011-07-19 13:33:29
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whatever floats your boat i suppose then, though you may want to encourage this french guy here from the last page to use bullwhip belt over goading belt, because -60 hp is bad, so says he; only 60, mind you, since he already uses bustle dirs for some unknown reason
 Ifrit.Eikechi
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By Ifrit.Eikechi 2011-07-19 13:34:46
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lol I like bullwhip personally if you can sac the STP there is literally nothing wrong with it
 Pandemonium.Ironguy
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By Pandemonium.Ironguy 2011-07-19 13:36:33
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which he easily could sack the store tp (like all samurai currently could/should), yes

must be an inferior race thing
 Ifrit.Eikechi
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By Ifrit.Eikechi 2011-07-19 13:38:35
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If you can bump your x-hit build up by 1 full swing though, with only losing 2% haste, that might be a decent trade.. could be what he's doin there (though the STP from AF3+2 legs is pretty huge compared to the haste on bustle dirs...) so i didn't quite understand his build either
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By Marokko 2011-07-19 13:47:08
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Pandemonium.Ironguy said:
Fenrir.Crystenne said:
RR/VV/Apoc with unkai kabuto +2 swapped out for zelus tiara

fixed for accuracy just because it saves me the ten keystrokes of typing out those three atmas in this thread myself

Or you could switch to a 6hit build with Zelus and keep A&O.
 Pandemonium.Ironguy
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By Pandemonium.Ironguy 2011-07-19 13:59:04
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you've got to be out of your mind if you think 2% da outperforms an increase in your -hit tier
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 Bismarck.Angeleus
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By Bismarck.Angeleus 2011-07-19 14:00:13
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This thread is not lock yet?

Interesting...

Surprise Iron-guy hasn't been topic banned.
 Ifrit.Eikechi
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By Ifrit.Eikechi 2011-07-19 14:02:36
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what iron guy? who was that directed at? lol I dont think it was me as I said the opposite... a 2% haste hit is a good trade for an improvement to your x-hit build
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By Asura.Hotin 2011-07-19 14:06:50
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Btw i managed to change my setup a bit if you even care but at worst others peoples could, i did more tests (and noticed FFXI calculator still didnt update STP V...) so:



Its working fine even w/o aftermath(and so even better with AM) with hasso, haste and a bit more, i wont bother to use ~25.4% haste cause a difference of 3/100 of a second on the delay wont change anything naturally, if you are afraid of this build you can add a White tathlum but i wont pay 3M for it since its working for now. About VV atma i seen several tests, some say 5% and other one 10% DA and since its accepted Minor multiple attack on atmas is 5%, major 10% and Superior as Apocalypse atma 15%, i am still confused but i would say 10% if i follow logic and if SE didnt fail the typing on it... Still a great atma in any cases. So Bustle dirs goes to mog locker indeed, Brb gonna eat my french soup.
 Pandemonium.Ironguy
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By Pandemonium.Ironguy 2011-07-19 14:10:01
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Ifrit.Eikechi said:
what iron guy? who was that directed at? lol I dont think it was me as I said the opposite... a 2% haste hit is a good trade for an improvement to your x-hit build

that was directed at that maro dudeface

granted, i saw it from the amanomurakumo perspective where you can wear zelus tiara even without vv, so i guess i can take that back to an extent on the matter of it only being 2% da (pole grip), but regardless, this otherwise is basically a relapse of late-2006, where people were using fuma sune-ate over hachiman sune-ate and questioning how 3% haste was outperformed by 5 store tp that obviously did nothing

Bismarck.Angeleus said:
Surprise Iron-guy hasn't been topic banned.

feel free to point out anything that is blatantly wrong then, because i'm open to being corrected :D
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 Odin.Zibo
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By Odin.Zibo 2011-07-19 14:10:29
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I think BG maffs had a 6 hit over a 5 hit pre-update, idk if that changed though. I think it basically comes down to TP over 100 due to DA and TA and JA delay on weaponskills.
 Ifrit.Eikechi
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By Ifrit.Eikechi 2011-07-19 14:10:52
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Wouldn't the unkai back help a lot here? I know Aethling is sweet and 3% DA is fantastic and all...but 1) do you also WS in it? 2) wouldn't the zanshin bonus help with hasso-zanshin proc with ikishoten merits? Seems like it would increase TP gain to me *shrug*
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By Pandemonium.Ironguy 2011-07-19 14:11:48
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Odin.Zibo said:
I think BG maffs had a 6 hit over a 5 hit pre-update, idk if that changed though. I think it basically comes down to TP over 100 due to DA and TA and JA delay on weaponskills.

before the update, the six-hit was much more on-par with the five-hit because tactical mantle is essentially aids on your back

now though, no matter what, you can sport atheling mantle, thanks to store tp v


Ifrit.Eikechi said:
Wouldn't the unkai back help a lot here? I know Aethling is sweet and 3% DA is fantastic and all...but 1) do you also WS in it? 2) wouldn't the zanshin bonus help with hasso-zanshin proc with ikishoten merits? Seems like it would increase TP gain to me *shrug*

the hasso adjustment takes your zanshin rate and cuts it to a fourth, which in other words means that even if unkai sugemino was 5% zanshin (which it's probably 3% tbh), it'd offer 1.2% hasso-zanshin at best
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 Odin.Zibo
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By Odin.Zibo 2011-07-19 14:12:43
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Hass-zanshin procs are calculated as a fraction of your zanshin rate, so Unkai back would give a very marginal zanshin boost that I dobt would surpass athelings.
 Ifrit.Eikechi
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By Ifrit.Eikechi 2011-07-19 14:14:32
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I do wish the grip slot wasn't so damn rigged.. I need to campaign a rose (and iron ram for war's MDT set lol) but I seriously dislike that grip lol. Idk why...I just would like more flexibility in a slot that has a ton of it.
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By Pandemonium.Ironguy 2011-07-19 14:24:14
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look at it this way: at least we can put something in that slot, meanwhile monks/puppetmasters are left with nothing in it :D

also

Asura.Hotin said:

there's an ammo piece out there that gives 1% haste at the cost of 11 accuracy and 8 attack

i'll let you contemplate what it may be

that, or you can click here and save yourself the trouble :D:D:D
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 Phoenix.Arhat
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By Phoenix.Arhat 2011-07-19 14:54:34
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People have been topicbanned for much less than this. The resident Nazi must be sleeping in xD
 Asura.Hotin
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By Asura.Hotin 2011-07-19 14:56:10
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Well whatever it is, the trade is pretty big especially for outside, Thew would beat it since it would only be 0.3-0.4% haste which is 3-4/100 of a second on delay which doesnt change anything. That is my official setup for now, i'll see how it goes with Quadruple attack(will be very rare to activate it right after WS) and will add white tahtlum if needed.
 Ifrit.Eikechi
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By Ifrit.Eikechi 2011-07-19 14:59:19
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Ace's Sabatons... do I win? :P
 Asura.Hotin
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By Asura.Hotin 2011-07-19 15:02:03
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I'll let a margin on STP especially 3-4/100 of a second is nothing as i already said.
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By Pandemonium.Ironguy 2011-07-19 15:02:07
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problem is, you're off by two store tp, even with white tathlum accounted as far as a non-aftermath set goes compared to the former-mentioned non-aftermath setup

four hits of 19.9% tp, one of 17.4% (rose/brutal/rajas/unkaihaidate+2, no aftermath) and that results with 97.0% tp, in other words requiring three ticks of regain (nine seconds) instead of two (six seconds)

i don't know about you, but if i'm sporting even merely haste (spell), that's enough to allow me to (more often than not) weapon skill faster than nine seconds before my previous one

Ifrit.Eikechi said:
Ace's Sabatons... do I win? :P

you are a winnar
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 Ramuh.Austar
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By Ramuh.Austar 2011-07-19 15:03:06
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Asura.Hotin said:
PS: The truth is ironclown loves to play WAR so much because the job have less STP amount and so does feed less TP to the monsters as he thought it was working for years etc.(the problem is not even doing mistake but it is acting like u are god and know everything although everyone doing mistake as long as we are humans). Incoming retarded 12 yrs old pics i dont understand because they have none sense simply or irrelevant PvP pic, taru comments etc, {End Key}.
At least when he's wrong he'll admit it and take it like a man instead of whining like a punk *** french ***.
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 Asura.Hotin
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By Asura.Hotin 2011-07-19 15:10:31
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No i tested w/o the aftermath( so even better with AM) while one hour and it always worked and even with hasso and haste u dont hit every 3 seconds so u get your 3 tick regain for 4hits, dont forget the extra tick right after WS cause the litte downtime and i even have a little margin for double attack.
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By Asura.Hotin 2011-07-19 15:13:13
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Ramuh.Austar said:
Asura.Hotin said:
PS: The truth is ironclown loves to play WAR so much because the job have less STP amount and so does feed less TP to the monsters as he thought it was working for years etc.(the problem is not even doing mistake but it is acting like u are god and know everything although everyone doing mistake as long as we are humans). Incoming retarded 12 yrs old pics i dont understand because they have none sense simply or irrelevant PvP pic, taru comments etc, {End Key}.
At least when he's wrong he'll admit it and take it like a man instead of whining like a punk *** french ***.

I did too since i did more test on my own and removed bustle dirs cause i found better setup that is working for now.
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By Bahamut.Zellc 2011-07-19 15:41:49
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i use:

vv/sa/harvester- do this for the da and attack and str. im sure there is a cap for str or w/e, i think its something like fstr. but i unno too deep for me. i usually use this on tougher nms where i believe that feeding fudo all that str will push its numbers up. seems to work well.

vv/rr/harvester- usually when i tp something for an extended time. whm&sam duo. dont care what ppl say about about rr on sam, 1K+ crits are nice. even if on a 5 hit i only melee hit 4 times in between ws's.

apoc/rr/lion(or a&o)- now this one is usually full tp on the mob when im not generally concerned about ws dmg. i.e. if i was in a exp or cruor pt. stacking the triple attack and rr for aftermath crits works well, for me at least. i usually go with a&o but when i have shitty whm or healer in general, i go with lion. -dmg the extra hp from not using a&o help.

thats usually what i switch between, i hope this would help anyone who was inquiring about which atmas to use on sam. another bit of advice would be to play around with some atma combos. you might find something you like better or that suits your playing style. gl~
 Pandemonium.Ironguy
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By Pandemonium.Ironguy 2011-07-19 16:05:15
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alright

Asura.Hotin said:

i'm going to be giving this setup benefit of the doubt here, assuming the nine second interval required would be viable; twelve second interval without white tathlum over thew bomblet, so i'm going to include white tathlum here with that build just to make it a bit more realistic

with that, compared to



this

11 dex, 5 (5.25) accuracy and 12 atk in the latters' favor, with 1% haste in the formers' favor; if you want to get REALLY technical, 3.50 atk in the formers' favor if thew bomblet when equipped on a character with the name hotin gave 2 store tp

if accuracy was truly an issue to some degree, it's safe to assume attack would have somewhat of an impact as well during the tp phase, and this isn't even looking at the byakko's haidate-esqe dexterity difference, and we all know how amazing of a difference in critical hit rate that was when we first got them back in 2004-5 as far as veteran melee go

in short, i'm still absolutely confident the set i stitched together will outperform that set (ignoring the faultiness of the build itself by having to rely on three ticks of regain instead of two), though that's still probably the only other "realistic" ultimate five-hit setup out there anyways as far as level ninety goes currently

and then it dawns on me that tp set discussion is being talked about in an atma thread
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By Asura.Hotin 2011-07-19 16:31:01
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Yeah these 2 setup are very very close overall, as i said i'll possibly buy a white tahtlum if needed but for now it is working but anyways these 2 setup are the way to go outside for now. I see we can have a normal discussion w/o flame war, good.
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