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Who wants Asuran Fists?!
Leviathan.Draylo
Server: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
By Leviathan.Draylo 2011-06-21 15:58:05
Fenrir.Terminus said: Leviathan.Draylo said: Carbuncle.Axle said: Why would pup want Asuran Fists anyway really?
I'm a monk w/o Victory Smite or Asectic's Fury.
I use Backhand Blow. Asuran is crap. Never saw Asuran bust out 2k dmg on Orthus(500dmg asuran is normal), but backhand blow does. Seen my best numbers on harder stuff with backhand blow as apposed to other mnk ws's.
Blue proc would be my guess, but dunno why you wouldn't just job change to MNK.
That and the 240 or so non Abyssea zones?
Stringing pummel?
Server: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3351
By Fenrir.Terminus 2011-06-21 16:04:07
Leviathan.Draylo said: Fenrir.Terminus said: Leviathan.Draylo said: Carbuncle.Axle said: Why would pup want Asuran Fists anyway really?
I'm a monk w/o Victory Smite or Asectic's Fury.
I use Backhand Blow. Asuran is crap. Never saw Asuran bust out 2k dmg on Orthus(500dmg asuran is normal), but backhand blow does. Seen my best numbers on harder stuff with backhand blow as apposed to other mnk ws's.
Blue proc would be my guess, but dunno why you wouldn't just job change to MNK.
That and the 240 or so non Abyssea zones?
Stringing pummel?
Oh... I suck. I meant... backhand blow is ok in Abyssea, not really anywhere else. That really didn't work out.
Carbuncle.Axle
Server: Carbuncle
Game: FFXI
Posts: 742
By Carbuncle.Axle 2011-06-21 16:10:34
Fenrir.Terminus said: Leviathan.Draylo said: Fenrir.Terminus said: Leviathan.Draylo said: Carbuncle.Axle said: Why would pup want Asuran Fists anyway really?
I'm a monk w/o Victory Smite or Asectic's Fury.
I use Backhand Blow. Asuran is crap. Never saw Asuran bust out 2k dmg on Orthus(500dmg asuran is normal), but backhand blow does. Seen my best numbers on harder stuff with backhand blow as apposed to other mnk ws's.
Blue proc would be my guess, but dunno why you wouldn't just job change to MNK.
That and the 240 or so non Abyssea zones?
Stringing pummel?
Oh... I suck. I meant... backhand blow is ok in Abyssea, not really anywhere else. That really didn't work out.
I know that btw. Just didn't add that too my comment, thought that was basic knowledge. Asuran is still good outside, bar VS or AF.
Ramuh.Krizz
Server: Ramuh
Game: FFXI
Posts: 23561
By Ramuh.Krizz 2011-06-21 16:12:11
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Leviathan.Draylo
Server: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
By Leviathan.Draylo 2011-06-21 16:13:30
AF over asurans outside??
Carbuncle.Axle
Server: Carbuncle
Game: FFXI
Posts: 742
By Carbuncle.Axle 2011-06-21 16:17:31
Leviathan.Draylo said: AF over asurans outside??
Ermm, sorry no exp with that WS. Forgot about lack of crit's outside.
Krizz :
Didn't think this was too off topic. Kinda going over the use of Asuran Fists. Guess i'll stop posting.
Ramuh.Krizz
Server: Ramuh
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Posts: 23561
By Ramuh.Krizz 2011-06-21 16:18:16
It was directed at the entire thread.
Server: Valefor
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Posts: 19414
By Valefor.Prothescar 2011-06-21 16:20:52
I really don't understand why PUP would want Asuran. Stringing Pummel is by far a superior weaponskill and has the same skillchain properties.
Edit: Felt I needed to address it, the PLD and DRG quest guy unlocks both jobs because they're both meant to be orders of San d'Orian knights.
Leviathan.Dreamx
Server: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 192
By Leviathan.Dreamx 2011-06-21 16:51:37
There's a thing called lore in a video game, It kinda matters... Even by just a little bit. That's the sole reason why PUP will -NEVER- get Asuran Fists.
If PUP gets Asuran Fists then MNK should get something that wouldn't make sense like Stringing Pummel.
We wouldn't have much use for it, but it would be just there to say we have it.
TL;DR : Makes no damn sense why you would want that. (edit: Other than just pure greed.)
Server: Valefor
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By Valefor.Prothescar 2011-06-21 16:58:13
From what I can gather from the OP they only want it so they can have it in their WS list to look pretty. :X
Leviathan.Dreamx
Server: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 192
By Leviathan.Dreamx 2011-06-21 17:01:40
Valefor.Prothescar said: From what I can gather from the OP they only want it so they can have it in their WS list to look pretty. :X
If thats so, I want BLU to be on the Kraken Club able to wield list, uhh lets see... BLU cure potency swords/staves/clubs/gear in general... uhhh lolPLD tanking again... There's a lot of things to "want" versus things we need.
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By Valefor.Prothescar 2011-06-21 17:04:26
BLU on ridill
Server: Sylph
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Posts: 295
By Sylph.Rorrick 2011-06-21 17:05:37
Because in the lore, Monk is the master of hand-to-hand combat. Puppetmaster is not a master of hand-to-hand combat. Asuran Fists is for masters of hand-to-hand combat only.
The lore says why you don't get it. You may as well complain you can't wear a black belt even though you meet the level requirement. No one agreed with you on the official forums, and no one agrees with you here.
Get over it.
Server: Ramuh
Game: FFXI
Posts: 11972
By Ramuh.Laffter 2011-06-21 17:18:04
Valefor.Prothescar said: BLU on ridill This would actually make sense :|
Server: Ifrit
Game: FFXI
Posts: 5779
By Ifrit.Eikechi 2011-06-21 17:18:47
OK, so as a pup I'm a little upset at the OP lol... Ya we got the shaft on WSNM...guess what..? NOBODY CARES! Instead of a crappy quest WS (sorry but since nyzul weapons Asuran is bleh), we get....get this now... OUR OWN DAMN ROBOT! lol Its way cooler than -1 on the WS list... Our auto can do so many things, we don't need Asuran...ever. Pups bitching about the dumbest things just furthers the "lolpup" stigma, that the people who honestly do well at and love pup, try to break lol.
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Phoenix.Kirana
Server: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2025
By Phoenix.Kirana 2011-06-21 17:36:33
Carbuncle.Virtuosus said: I just....what? You're saying you can out DD an equally geared MNK on your PUP without your automaton? I'm not trying to call PUP bad, but I'd honestly like to see a PUP outdamage a MNK even with their automaton. And no, I don't mean an optimal AF3+2, Vere PUP going up against an Avengers/Aurore Set MNK, I mean equally geared. He never said equally geared.
Server: Alexander
Game: FFXI
Posts: 314
By Alexander.Almostunsane 2011-06-21 17:42:20
Attn SE: Give PUP a WSNM where the automaton learns how to use Asuran Snips on Valoredge so we can close this thread.
Love, everyone who isn't OP
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By Ifrit.Eikechi 2011-06-21 17:45:42
Almost, a quest to teach your puppet a new trick would be badass actually lol
Server: Valefor
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By Valefor.Prothescar 2011-06-21 17:49:22
Ramuh.Laffter said: Valefor.Prothescar said: BLU on ridill This would actually make sense :|
It really would. BLU wears all of the curvy wurvy woman-looking swords, so I dunno why we can't wear that one. That's it, I'm starting a thread.
Bahamut.Mizuharu
Server: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1988
By Bahamut.Mizuharu 2011-06-21 17:54:24
One question for everyone...
The original post date was 20 days ago. The original post didn't have as many points I made after I edited. Originally had... 5 other posters. So five other people actually took interest twenty days ago.
So I guess my question is; why's everyone suddenly interested?
Server: Sylph
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Posts: 15064
By Sylph.Tigerwoods 2011-06-21 17:55:43
post was on official site
Bahamut.Mizuharu
Server: Bahamut
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Posts: 1988
By Bahamut.Mizuharu 2011-06-21 17:56:57
Sylph.Tigerwoods said: post was on official site
Been there for twenty days in the pup forum.
EDIT: Also, most of the arguments are indeed good points. I'll read through them and actually give a response when I have some free time.
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By Sylph.Rorrick 2011-06-21 17:58:02
Because someone necrobumped it and someone else saw it on the front page and posted and then someone else saw it on the front page and so on and so forth.
It's amazing what a slow forum day and some boredom will do.
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By Sylph.Tigerwoods 2011-06-21 17:58:15
It was in "new posts" when i checked new posts today
Server: Valefor
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By Valefor.Prothescar 2011-06-21 18:00:58
They aren't good points, it's all semantics. Puppetmaster has a weaponskill that beats the ***out of Asuran Fists and yet still want Asuran Fists? For what, the small chance to proc during blunt time?
Server: Sylph
Game: FFXI
Posts: 15064
By Sylph.Tigerwoods 2011-06-21 18:02:37
Valefor.Prothescar said: They aren't good points, it's all semantics. Puppetmaster has a weaponskill that beats the ***out of Asuran Fists and yet still want Asuran Fists? For what, the small chance to proc during blunt time? He meant the points I made against his identical post on the other forums
Bahamut.Mizuharu
Server: Bahamut
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Posts: 1988
By Bahamut.Mizuharu 2011-06-21 18:03:29
Sylph.Tigerwoods said: It was in "new posts" when i checked new posts today
That's the one I put in Battle Content today, which actually has less responses than this. Guess more people hang out here for boredom lol. The older one is in PUP forums.
Valefor.Prothescar said: They aren't good points, it's all semantics. Puppetmaster has a weaponskill that beats the ***out of Asuran Fists and yet still want Asuran Fists? For what, the small chance to proc during blunt time?
And yeah, mostly just Tiger's arguments. Most of the others were by people who either didn't read or here to troll by saying what they want just to get some comment+. Not saying all, just saying it's a vast majority.
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By Valefor.Prothescar 2011-06-21 18:21:56
Ah okie, thought he meant the points that are contained in the OP.
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By Shiva.Khimaira 2011-06-21 18:41:13
Sylph.Krsone said: He has got a point, blu got an existing wsnm ws savage blade which was a job released at the same time as pup.
BLU actually had the skill for it. But I do see your point.
Server: Valefor
Game: FFXI
Posts: 19414
By Valefor.Prothescar 2011-06-21 18:51:55
Final Fantasy does hinge a lot on the lore of it all. Giving PUP Asuran would kinda mess things up a lot. Savage Blade has nothing linking it to the jobs that can learn it.
Tell the devs here!
Quote: [To the Devs] Puppetmaster Accessing Asuran Fists
At the time I had originally posted this, I didn't have enough arguments to support the post. But I let it run as a discussion over in the PUP forum area and decided to repost here. (While people frown on [To the Devs] tags, I have noticed they reply more times than not to topics that begin with it.) I apologize for the repost, but here it is.
Ever since the update last year that increased Puppetmaster's combat rating up from 225 cap (@Lv.75) to 256(@Lv.75), many had hoped that we'd be able to access Asuran Fists. Now, I know Stringing Pummel and Victory Smite do more damage than Asuran Fists anyway, and I'm most likely blowing hot air posting this, but here are a few arguments for why we should be allowed to quest for this Weapon Skill...
1) We're the only other job that actually mains Hand-to-Hand in this game.
2) The only reason we originally could not obtain this Weapon Skill was because PUPs could not reach the skill level to open quest without merits/gear. (Asuran Fists quest is 250 Hand-to-Hand. Puppetmaster's new cap at 75 is 256.)
3) Every job besides PUP gets access to at least one WSNM Weapon Skill if not multiple.
---a) Empyreal Arrow - RNG
---b) Decimation - WAR BST DRK RNG
---c) Black Halo - PLD WHM BLU WAR MNK BLM SMN SCH
---d) Evisceration - THF COR RDM DNC WAR RNG BRD BST NIN
---e) Steel Cyclone - WAR DRK
---f) Tachi: Kasha - SAM
---g) Ground Strike - DRK WAR PLD
---h) Asuran Fists - MNK
---i) Detonator - RNG COR
---j) Impulse Drive - DRG SAM WAR
---k) Spiral Hell - DRK WAR BST
---l) Retribution - PLD WAR MNK SMN BLM WHM BRD SCH
---m) Savage Blade - WAR RDM BLU PLD COR DRK
So I ask again; why isn't PUP allowed to obtain Asuran Fists?
(Arguments thus far)
1) Was originally MNK only, should stay MNK only. (But Dancing Edge/Shark Bite use to be THF only and then DNC was added on. "But those aren't WSNM WSs" Fine. Detonator. Originally RNG only, COR was added on due to them getting the combat skill requirement. Speaking of COR, they were added to Savage Blade and Evisceration also. I realize they reached those skill levels originally when the job was first released, but the 225 on PUP was a joke. (Which is why it was raised last year, no?))
2) PUP doesn't need it because they have Stringing Pummel/Victory Smite. (BST mains Axes and rarely, if ever, use scythe and daggers. They don't "need" Sprial Hell nor Evisceration; but they still get them. COR's main damage is from marksmenship. They don't need Savage Blade/Evisceration. MNK mains Hand-to-Hand. Why do they need Staff/Club WSs? Again; because the Dev team gave them the combat rating. Thus, because they got the combat skill without merits/gear before or at level 75, they were allowed to partake in the WSNM quest. And, as I said before, Puppetmaster's Hand-to-hand skill cap is now 256. Asuran Fists quest is 250.)
3) The time spent adding PUP onto the weapons could be used to fix the Automaton AI. (You think that adding Puppetmaster onto one weapon would take longer than rewriting an AI program? You think it'd take that much effort that they'd say "well, that's all they'll get for a while. Let's save the AI program for next year." It's been how long since WHM/BLM frames have been out? And they still havn't done anything about -nas before Cures and high thresholds for Aspir/Drain. The AI works for solo play. They meant PUP to be a solo job that can still DD in party formats (like BST.))
4) If they wanted us to have it, they'd have done it when we received the combat update. (True. But there's so many things that certain jobs should have gotten, and are now getting (Yonin/Innin on seperate timers. Longer duration on Last Resort. Just to name a few.) I am hoping to get a Dev to notice this thread and at least say yay or nay.)
5) Just make Stringing Pummel a blue proc! (Why should this be the only Mythic WS to proc? None of the others proc because the Dev team know that WSNM WSs are easier to get than Nyzul WSs; compare a set 300 points to a weapon that needs 250~16,000.)
6) Puppetmaster can't wear the type of weapon the trial weapon is for Asuran Fists. (DNC can't use the type of weapon for Evisceration. By that I meant the Dagger of Trials is not the standard type of Dagger DNC can normally equip.) Savage Blade's weapon is a Sapara; a type of sword that RDM and COR normally can't use.)
7) There's only a one in three chance that, during blunt hours, the WS is Hand-to-Hand. And then a one in five chance it's Asuran Fists. (True, true. But, like people have said, procing !! is such a small part of the game. And, honestly, I admit to originally writing this thread for blue procing on PUP. But now it's just for equaility... To get what every other job has;access to their main weapon's WSNM.)
8) Stringing Pummel/Victory Smite is better. (While this is true, if you met a MNK that didn't have Asuran Fists, most of you would insist on laughing at them. If you met any job that doesn't have the WSNM for their main weapon (save maybe for a mage), you'd tell your linkshell all about it and everyone would have a good laugh. Atm, PUP is expected to not have it because they don't have access to it. Stringing Pummel/Victory Smite is better damage for PUP, yes. But Ascetic's Fury/Victory Smite is better for MNK with damage.)
9) It'd ruin the lore behind the quest. (Honestly, the lore behind quests/NPCs is ignored when needed. The PLD starter NPC? He also plays a role in the DRG quest. And teaches Impulse Drive. A DRG/WAR/SAM WS. Why isn't PLD included on it? (Because of low combat ranking in polearm.) Or, and this time it isn't some minor quest thing, what about Aegis? The NPC in the past that weilds it is Cerane I Virgaut, where as the NPC you see during the CS is Perseus. Hell, the original owner of Annihilator was Elivira, but then the CS shows Elrica (might be related in some way since both are humes, but...) You look up any other relic weapon wielded by an Allied Army NPC, and they're the NPC for the CS.
And, I can't believe I almost forgot about this, what about Gungnir? It is the javelin wielded by Odin, and yet Odin is seen wielding a completely different polearm, which he calls Gungnir. (In the Dev Team's defense though, they did make the relic weapons before they planned on making Odin a monster. And while it is not called Gungnir directly, they are names the polearm was also known by.)
All in all, if they need to make a loophole around lore, they can.)
Sorry for the wall of text.
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