March And Minuet, Or March X2 For Merit Birds?

Usually hitting a good number and then 33% of those times having it supercharged is far from anything you can rely on. THerefore shouldn't really be considered

Ok then, I will entertain the notion of landing on lucky/11 most of the time and 33% proc rate.

~55 with proc
~45 without proc

~47 acc accounting for 1/3 proc rate.

Normal pole SAM with a 5hit and full haste sits around 360 acc (non-Usukane), so 47 would cap them (or very nearly) and allow them to eat meat.

But the problem is, you only need ~620 (650) attack to cap attack on bird assuming Dia III (Dia II), and tbh any decent SAM's penta build would be close to that from gear + chaos (and 'zerk 3/5 of the time). So the advantage of meat is pretty much lost.

So you are giving up ~20% of your exp so your SAMs can spam a food that they won't be making full use of. So no even on lucky numbers hunters is a less effective method.

Obviously if your SAMs aren't eating then hunters is the only way, but if your SAM is that bad I doubt he has a pole build.

Your math is way off. That's the increase w/o hasso(or w/o haste samba, but def not w/ both) >.>

10% haste (hasso) 25% haste (gear) 20% haste ( marches) 15% haste (haste)

10 + 25 + 20 + 15 = 70% haste

Just at this point, hasso

10/(100-70) = 33% haste.

No capped haste gear? Let's say 20%

10/(100-65) = 28% increase

I'm not sure where you're getting those to be the increases WITH dancer.

Now let's add dnc.

Capped haste is now 80%
25 (gear) + 10 (hasso) + 10 (samba) + 15 (spell) + 20 (marches)
80% haste.

Each capped haste hasso 2hander
10/(100-80) = 10/20 = 50% increase, not 25-30 >.>

Woah woah, that's completely wrong. A good sam can near cap polearm acc with just gear/merits(and hasso) alone. An avg sam can cap with crab sushi. There should be no need for sole unless you are horribly undergeared.

you're right but if it was marchx2 hunter/corsair's roll then meat becomes a viable option to shorten that gap from noncap to close to/capped attack on birds. Also penta thrust dmg varies with acc.
So from march x2 chaos/cor roll , eat sole/crab sushi
or from march x2 hunter/cor roll, eat attk food.
does that equal the same effect?

You can get more attack out of chaos roll + crab sushi and using attack gear instead of acc gear than you can w/ hunter's roll and meat (cause you won't get as much acc as the sushi, won't be ablet o swap out as much acc gear for attack gear)

@Vegetto, since quote isn't working

Yeah, my math was originally done in that DNC thread to show the benefit of a 5% increase to Haste Samba, the difference between unmeritted and max-meritted. I didn't take into account a lot of things, like doubling that 5% for a 10% increase from Haste Samba, and I also didn't think to add the 10% in for Hasso. Like I said, my math was done to prove a point just for pure attack speed going from non-meritted Haste Samba on DNC to fully meritted.

It did help to prove a point nonetheless.

Edit: It was also done with Haste gear limited to Turban, Rapparee Harness, Dusk Gloves, Relic pants, Dusk Ledelsens +1, and Swift Belt, cutting off Haste at 22% rather than expecting every DNC to have Dusk Gloves+1 and Velocious Belt.

yeah that's true, a good sam with some usukane gear, or polearm merits/love torque. So if they have capped acc then eat some attack food.

Oh.

You basically changing from eating acc and rolling att to eating att and rolling acc.

Crab sushi will give ~45 acc to a normal pole SAM.
Chaos will give 20% over time (with no upper cap) (80-150 attack in the normal attack range most DDs will sit in)

Hunters will give ~25 acc
Meat will give 60 attack and 1 fSTR

(Roll values taken as the average with no AFv2 hat and no 'right' job. Anding AFv2 hat will help both methods equally)

Its pretty clear, Sushi + Chaos give more accuracy and attack. The only thing Hunters + Meat has going for it is 5STR, but that won't get close to making up for the 20 accuracy and 20-90 attack.

NB: it is currently impossible to cap accuracy as a SAM from gear alone. With full usukane, everything you could ever want and hasso you get ~92-93%.

yeah i was talking if cor had AFv2 hat.

It means whatever wins w/o hat, still wins with hat.

k well I just thought it might be an alternative because from what you said earlier.
just to be clear
hunter's roll [4] < crab sushi < hunter's roll [11]
difference between hunter's [4] and crab sushi without use of usukane gear is roughly 4~5 acc
if roll is super charged/ranger in party
crab sushi < hunter's roll [4] < hunter's roll [11]
also
attk food < chaos[4] < chaos[11]
but other than that attack food will beat out the other rolls unless the roll is super charged/drk is present in party
So yeah I agree with you sushi + chaos is best if ur undercap on acc.
again I was just thinking of an alternate way because pricing of food etc. But moving along, if you're capped on acc and attk what food would you recommend if any

Double march...and with a cor, Double march + Fighter's roll + Chaos roll = madness

Ok just to flip things upside down...

Would marchx2 be better than March + Minuet even if the DD's weren't only polearm sams?

Let's say Mnk, Drk, GK Sam, Brd, Dnc, Rdm?

You mean if you had jobs that were using weapons they actually have A skill in therefore more acc/att to begin with?

I'm pretty sure marchx2 > march + min because if the cor does chaos roll their attack should be capped/close to cap on birds. also you put two slow attacking jobs in that mixup. scythe (usually 501 delay) and gkt (450 delay) so they'll want to hit much faster. Acc for gkt sam and scythe drk shouldn't be hardly a problem because both weapons are A+ for them too. Only problem I see possibly would be mnk with a slight acc problem but using sushi should cover that

I wasn't aware that only polearm SAMs benefit from MarchX2...

Seriously though, go with MarchX2 pretty much always.

nono see, in merits, BRD should be using only defense songs while the cor uses only pet rolls! True story...Drg was in the pty...cor wanted to use only pet rolls b/c of 1 drg....but yea whats up FFXI community!

brds should double ballad and cors should use smn and sch rolls...

Oh wait this isn't a blu burn nvm then

GALLANT ROLL!!!!!

Looks like I shall be changing the way I play.
An LS member of mine did some math, and said double min is better if it's polearm sam's since TP gain is so fast, the greater because it makes the damage so fast, but I guess speeding up the WS, would be a lot better.

I normally do whatever the DD's ask for, or favor the DD who has the best gear.

If he says March x2, that's what I do.

From now on, Fenrir get's March x2 from meeeee.

I'd be interested in seeing said LS member's math <_<

May I propose another situation?

What if one of the Sams is replaced with a ranger(which does not benefit from march)?

Assuming the dancer can help pull, it might be possible to pianissimo double minuet for the ranger while keeping march on the sams and ballad on the haste mage.

true, but that seems like an awful lot of extra work for the poor bard...

I've never seen an underworked bard in my life.

DNC shouldn't help pull. They shouldn't be TPing in a ranged item, and they need to engage the mob full time for them to be a benefit. :/

Double March
Why is this question still being asked..?

And about Dancer... Any good dancer can Out DD a Dragoon or Tomoe Sam on Greater Colibri, that combined with its Haste samba leaves it an invaluable member of a good Merit party.
The only job that in my experience that can give it a run for its money is Thief

ITT this guy^ comes in and thinks he rules the world.

Well its true.