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im trying to find a funny picture of zerde dead, that someone posted here. I lost it somehow on my pictures.. Need that fat face image!

We epeening or wut? Just stole it too!

OP was wise beyond his years. Truly the greatest prophet of our time.

Nexus Mods could be the best gaming site ever.

You sure are the king of pointless threads.

I need to try game on PC more often, apparently theres a lot of mods that are really cool. This one for digimon restore the dub voices

DT WS gear helps anyway because:
Outgoing packet contains equipment (pre or miscast)+action chunk
Incoming packet contains action message (hit, miss, etc.)
Next outgoing packet (~0.4s after first) contains equipment (idle)

That means you are not wearing DT gear for about half a second after you WS, or longer if you are one of the people who slam their WS macro ten times when it isn't quite up yet.

Swapping in DT gear makes you more durable.

Don't lie. 82.

I'm curious, but when does SE usually announce the new login point items for the upcoming update? I'm very interested to see what November will bring with the new login point changes.

SAM WAR WHM BRD COR and RDM or GEO. Zerg it, Asylum at start to prevent absorbs. It dies in like 30-45 seconds with wind hands. Thunder can take longer with stuns.

I'm sure other DDs work more or less just as well, but that's what we use.

I we are well geared, so you will struggle if you're just coming back.

We started with A/E and C/G. Once we were killing those fast we added in B/F and then last D/H.

For H it's important to proc. Not required, but it makes things significantly smoother.

We start with F-> G with 1hrs then do C->B->A->D then 1hr again for E/H. Generally get all the lesser NMs upstairs and nakaaul at end.
We don't do Botulus because we zerg fast enough and then AoE Regen+dancers after E to run to H

Fetters are not just on a timer, Gartell will also start spawning them based on its HP%. Its really easy to get fetters to spawn within Warcry's duration, for instance. I think they start spawning at 50% HP

Hard to say kill time, but we have generally been doing Darkness SCs with RDM bursting. Generally doing Impulse Drive <=> Cross Reaper when Sam + Drk, tried Impulse Drive <=> Spiral Hell on Sam + Drepanum War, and recently got stage3 Helheim for Impulse Drive <=> Fimbulvetr.
The damage spikes have not solely occurred during fetters, although fetters are where the big peaks show more clearly. I mentioned taking a 2.5k hit from Leshonn, for instance, who does not spawn fetters.

The purpose of me posting about this is not in order to optimize strats, but to talk about what may or may not be an overlooked mechanic

I started doing Sortie as a melee about 3 weeks ago and started testing dedicated capped DT WS sets about 6 days ago.
What got me to start looking at this was going back and reviewing the log after Gartell fights, and noticing how irregular the damage spikes were. It was pretty clear when counters went off as they would hit noticeably harder than Gartell's melee attacks. Gartell's counter (Retaliation?) ability only shows up in the chat log as a normal attack that deals higher damage, I am not using BattleLog or customizing my chat log output in any way. If the counter can crit or multiattack, it does not show up in the log.
A Gartell Counter proc simply looks like
"Gartell hits Player for 2,952 damage" in the log
I'm not saying that it cannot multiattack or crit, but that if it can, it isn't explicitly shown in the log.

This isn't eyeballing one or two big hits, this is weeks of testing. I don't remember what hands on what day, because the sample size is simply too big and I should have been screenshotting the logs. The control is simple, the first two weeks I was using a low DT WS set, the third week I was (mostly) using a max DT WS set. While both groups show variation in counter damage, DT WS group shows MUCH more consistent numbers topping out at below 1400 (I expect to see a max of 2k or so) whereas the low DT WS set has been much more varied. While it still has the 1100-1400 hits, it also has the 2.5, 2.9, and 4.1k spikes.
Importantly, a fair amount of that has been on Dark Knight with stacked HP from drain3, which showed let a lot of big counters go through without actually killing me. And in those cases the log generally showed counter damage falling into tiers, either they would land in the 1100-1400 damage range, or they would spike into the 2500-3000 range. One fight I think I literally saw three hits for ~2950, mixed in with 1100 hits.
What this says to me is that either the big spikes are normally occuring things like crits or multiattack procs, or they are spiking that high because they were hitting my WS set that had low (but not negative) DT.
If it was the crits and multiattacks, then changing my WS set should have had no impact on taking spike damage, as the damage would have been about the same in my Hybrid set as in my WS set.
If it was hitting me in my WS set, then changing that to a full DT WS set should have removed the big spikes entirely.
For all but one run in the last week I've been using the stacked DT WS set and all counter damage, regardless of hands or fetters, has never gone above 1400. For the one day I forgot to select that high DT WS set, Leshonn countered me for 2500.
I consider that pretty conclusive evidence that these damage spikes cannot be simply chalked up to crits and/or multiattacks.

The reason I focused on talking about the times that counters kill me is that those are times where I can conclusively point to the set I took the hit in, because I'm locked into that gear set on death. I've only got 3 samples there because it is a comparatively more rare event. One on War in a low DT WS set (~4100), one on Drk with a low DT WS set (~2500), and one on War with a high DT WS set (1300). All 3 died with a single WS worth of TP return remaining.

Please don't patronize me, Vyre. Just because I've taken two years off the game doesn't wipe out the 12 years prior I spent looking at the resolution animation.
Any melee DD worth their salt is not watching the animation to gauge when they are out of the lockout period, they are looking at the TP gauge. The lockout period is super obvious when you are watching the TP gauge and two seconds feels like an eternity when I'm doing fast paced events. I know what lag looks like and this ain't it, chief.
As for Gartell's counter preempting TP generation from the countered attack, I certainly notice something like that when fighting a traditional Monk mob, so I expect I would notice when an attack round gives no return on Gartell. I have noticed no difference in TP gain rate between fighting Gartell from the front or from the back, and the only difference I notice in TP rate between Gartell and other Sortie NMs is simply down to the obvious stuns on thunder hands. Whether or not Gartell's counter ability procs on WS, it explicitly functions differently than traditional counter. If you can actually show me that it inhibits TP gain outside of killing a DD, I will believe you, until then I'm going with my personal experience which says it does not.

As to which hand he was in when I observed the damage, the most recent confirmed hit to my WS set was this morning, for ~1300 damage to my Warrior's Nyame based DT set (-50 generic DT) and that was while inside a Choke fetter.

Looking back over all my data it is pretty consistent with 5k chest just randomly being reassigned each time a 5k is opened for that character and it can be any of the 4 chests distribution looks very even and I'm comfortable saying its probably 1/4 chance for each of them.

Your best strategy unless, a way to identify the 5k is found, is just going through opening all the chests in a set order, especially with multiple characters so you aren't ever opening a chest that you already know has to be a 3k and you don't have to have each character opening different chests.

I'm mostly just happy it turns out I wasn't crazy.

81. And thanks.

been 6boxing gartell since may, didnt know he counters. my melee method involves kiting on paladin tho, blu geo brd cor rdm all meleeing from behind

Which hand was he in when you observed the damage? Perhaps he absorbed something that made his attack skyrocket. Counters can crit, unsure if retaliation can. I wouldn't be surprised if Gartell had unique version of retaliation though. I have seen people die without any log message, which I assumed was a counter proc and dropped packet, but can't say I've ever seen it occur in a WS

37 years my work history now half pension just doing temporary gig jobs last 7 years as nurse.. 23 years FFXI history 65 till full pension..

If you get countered, you don't generate TP. The WS/JA delay is a couple seconds, but remember by the time you see the WS animation, the server's already processed it, so the delay in time for your eyeballs is shorter than that. It becomes more obvious on any really long animation WS. Go do Resolution. You'll see yourself start gaining your next auto round's TP gain well before the WS animation finishes.

When it's wind mode, the DOT from the Fetter is a Choke effect. This reduces your VIT to 1. This means you lose hundreds of points of defense, but also means that Gartell gains capped fSTR against you(this means you take BIG damage).

In addition to DT on Nyame gear, Nyame also sports very high physical and magical evasion, meaning Gartell's attacks are more likely to miss or be resisted. Due to the massive VIT reduction from Choke, this makes %DT even more valuable, but Nyame's defenses are 4-fold. It sports high raw defense, high raw evasion, high MEVA, and high -DT. The new Limbus armor can be very good, but you have to keep an appreciable amount of -DT in your WS set in any serious content(really no less than -25% and -30% or more would be highly advisable depending on your healer). This is why if you read about people's initial reaction to +4, a lot of folks were underwhelmed, and hoping for DT% augments or something similar on the AF/Relic.

More likely either crits or double attacks, or a combination.

Traditonal counters work this way, yes, but even the most causal glance at whatever Gartell has shows that it doesn't work this way, WS or not. I have never seen a normal melee swing against Gartell deal 0 damage, let alone getting a "Gartell Counters X person's attack for Y Damage" showing up in a log. Also the traditional counter preempts the attacker gaining TP from their attack, yet I have never experienced, nor heard anyone mention having reduced TP gain from Gartell's counter ability. It really feels much more like Warrior's Retaliation ability than Monk's counter.
I'm well aware of the damage order in the chatlog being unreliable, and I've considered the scenario you have proposed, but there are issues with it.
If my auto attacks are triggering counter before my WS goes off, my WS would never fire, as I'd be already be dead, and should be in TP gear. The fact that the WS goes off at all shows that getting killed by a counter is not happening prior to WS. So that leaves the idea of dying to an attack round immediately after the WS, and there are two things that point to it not being the case.
The first is WS lockout time, it takes a full two seconds after the WS goes off to resume swinging, which really stick out in a zerg environment. When the instance is super laggy its much easier for this to happen, and that does happen in sortie, but that hasn't been the case for my recent testing.
The second indicator is that TP does not reset on death. If I WS and then perform a melee swing, and the melee swing triggers a counter that kills me, I should have my WS TP return plus the TP return from one attack round that kills me, but instead I went down with exactly the TP return I'd expect from a single hit WS.

I'm well aware that he steals buffs and that is why I expect to get hit for up to 2K in the future in a DT stacked WS set under fetters, but it is the 2.9k to 4k outliers that got me on this course of inquiry

There's a reason that most groups kite Gartell.

Lol

The greatest one too.