Why Is It So Difficult To Criticize Islam Without Angrying It Deeply?

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Why is it so difficult to criticize Islam without angrying it deeply?
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 Caitsith.Mougurijin
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By Caitsith.Mougurijin 2010-05-02 04:16:45
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I don't really know why, but it does seem very difficult to criticise or question Islam without angering someone.
Sadly, many Christians seem to get angry instead of returning helpful answers when our 'religion' is criticised too.

The quote in this image shows simple decent logic, but on it's own does not manage to suport Atheism any more than it suports Christianity.
God is both able and willing to prevent evil...
Phoenix.Darki said:
If #3, you then have to find the answer to the new question to end the logic gate, because the two parameters- "Is God willing to prevent evil" and "Is God able" are not sufficient enough to cover all the posibilities and give an absolute result.

Many people seem to have not read the very first three chapers of The Bible, in Genesis, before talking about this subject.

I'm not really sure how to word it well, but a third parameter to the query should be added, something like:
"God {does|does not} abide with mankind's disobediant decision for our own authority"
(Adam and Eve disobeyed God's single rule, desiring to become like God themselves, which resulted in God accepting that mankind has chosen to live without His rule and authority, and therefore without God himself.)

So...

Is God both able and willing to prevent evil, and going to take leadership of our world, disregarding mankind's choice to live without his rule and power? (also ignoring atheists and others that do not want God.)
--> Then God is a dictator.
Is God both able and willing to prevent evil, but not going to disregard mankind's choice to live without his rule and power?
--> Then God can and wants to prevent evil, but requires us to honor his authority and to ask Him so that His power may work through our lives.
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 Ragnarok.Virusheartt
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By Ragnarok.Virusheartt 2010-05-02 04:56:03
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by the way, why did who creat this forum didnt reply to anything ? is it copy past subjects or what lol
or have been trying to find somthing ppl can fight at , and watch ? or may be trying to be on "omg most viewd char's" ? good job...
 Shiva.Flionheart
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By Shiva.Flionheart 2010-05-02 08:02:38
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Shiva.Lucant said:
Slipispsycho just seen your BST gear and almost barfed in my undies and tell your wife i said hello for me

Hey Lucant, Stop running in to the DD's to use Curaga you cretin.
 Asura.Korpg
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By Asura.Korpg 2010-05-02 08:18:39
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Shiva.Lucant said:
um to be honest i really dont wanna talk to you,and i know how to speak *** english ok,i have a high school diploma not a GED.
Honorary degree does not mean you graduated with honors btw.

Having a HS diploma means ***in today's world btw. Just because you have that doesn't mean you are educated.
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 Phoenix.Kojo
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By Phoenix.Kojo 2010-05-02 08:23:34
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Caitsith.Mougurijin said:
I don't really know why, but it does seem very difficult to criticise or question Islam without angering someone. Sadly, many Christians seem to get angry instead of returning helpful answers when our 'religion' is criticised too. The quote in this image shows simple decent logic, but on it's own does not manage to suport Atheism any more than it suports Christianity. God is both able and willing to prevent evil...

Those that flip out are usually in a cult-church, you know; "Come and pray, leave $300+ in the offering plate, God will love you. By the way, bring the rest of your family, have them do the same. If they won't, disown them." My cousin was in one for a few years. It saved him from a crystal meth addiction, not so much through prayer, but through leaving him so broke that he couldn't buy any. He was also receiving money from a settlement over the death of a son AND working a full-time job. After he went broke and left for a bit, he tried to go back and was shunned.

Now, my cousin is a bit of a nut, and yes, he still will do meth every once in awhile, but he realizes that doing too much will ruin his family life. He's really a good person and didn't deserve to be taken advantage of, when he was looking for help.

Another Cousin went to a similar church seeking prayer and spritual healing from his cocaine and meth addictions, same deal. As far as I know, he's still with the church and seems to put members of his church before his family. Which sux ***, because I was gonna try to buy a 1951 Willys Wagon off of him. I don't know if he'll sale it to me. >.>

I don't dislike nor shun either of them, they have their own ways, as individuals, regardless of oddity.

Anyway, the people who are in a true church will acctually sit down and discuss their beliefs with you, if you ask. One of my teachers in HS was and would.. As well as the Catholic girl I was trying to date for a bit. Damn she was cute. I'd not nail her any day of the week. >.>

tl;dr I base most of my mistrust of religion on situations of my family members.
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By Phoenix.Kojo 2010-05-02 08:26:12
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Asura.Korpg said:
Shiva.Lucant said:
um to be honest i really dont wanna talk to you,and i know how to speak *** english ok,i have a high school diploma not a GED.
Honorary degree does not mean you graduated with honors btw. Having a HS diploma means ***in today's world btw. Just because you have that doesn't mean you are educated.

Yeah, I don't have one due to a crooked Art teacher, I could have painted the Mona Lisa and failed her class. I passed everything else but couldn't go back for just one credit.
 Asura.Korpg
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By Asura.Korpg 2010-05-02 08:29:30
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Ragnarok.Action said:
Rafik i said this before and ill say it again, our book dont say put mask on woman face... and u say under like we put our womans in boxes..
Then why do you demand your women to put veils on and say its for religion?
Quote:
How come Islamic men have no problems staring at American/UK and other none of Islamic descent women? Oh hey, but let us stone our own. i have no idea about that but in my opinion lol "muslim man staring" what is the difference arab or foreign it same and called "rude" or it become big deal cuze he muslim lots ppl staring.... arabs indiain japanese i bet in US and UK too.
Japanese culture states that it is very rude to stare at a person. How would I know this? I lived in Japan for a little while. Being a huge white person (my American friends nicknamed me "Godzilla" while I was there as a joke) in a country of small yellow people (not saying anything wrong with color btw, so don't take my words out of context) would cause a lot of staring, and yet, nobody did really. Well, except the children, and they were scolded by their parents and apologized to me when caught. I didn't mind tbh, and I even talked to them (to the best I can, given my Japanese sucks).

So don't say that Japanese stare at people, because they don't.
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By Trebold 2010-05-03 02:06:56
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France isn't putting up with this oppression *** anymore.

The scoop is here.

Quote:

Women caught wearing the full veil can choose to attend a "citizenship course" instead of paying the fine, the paper said.

Sarkozy decided this month to opt for a total ban on the full-face veil, despite warnings from the State Council, France's top administrative body, that the law could be struck down as unconstitutional.

The president has declared the burqa and the niqab - veils worn by Muslim women in parts of Afghanistan, Pakistan and the Gulf - unwelcome in France, calling them an affront to French values that denigrate women.

There has been a fierce debate in France, home to Europe's biggest Muslim minority of between five and six million people, with supporters of a ban arguing that veils are a sign of creeping fundamentalism that must not be allowed to take hold.
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By Bahamut.Stanflame 2010-05-03 02:26:17
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Valefor.Slipispsycho said:
You can't find a solution to this problem.. As long as different religions exist, so too will these types of problems.. Since I don't see religion disappearing anytime soon, I don't see these problems going either.
why would it need to dissapear for this to stop...? what if there is an after life and what people are worshiping?

technology is coming and has been here for thousands of years, and is advancing.
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By Trebold 2010-05-03 03:01:30
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Ragnarok.Action said:
Rafik i said this before and ill say it again, our book dont say put mask on woman face... and u say under like we put our womans in boxes..

it the thing on hair and all face shown and its custom not part of the religion what u want to see her *** to know if she the person or no? i agree with you there is some old custom and stuff like that we arabs even stagger at it.

but man be fair and blame the HELP I AM TRAPPED IN 2006 PLEASE SEND A TIME MACHINE People not the whole thing and im not mad or something it just sad when ppl like u miss understand what "really" going on. and sad to see shitty stuff happen in islam name.

and btw bro There is 21 arab countries and in 20 of them there is no law or the imposition of the veil idk where u got that one from. which means US/UK woman dont have to were anything.

and what u mean "treat your women way u do" what do u you came here? before u been in this society? or you just follow the crowd and beelive anything?

How come Islamic men have no problems staring at American/UK and other none of Islamic descent women? Oh hey, but let us stone our own. i have no idea about that but in my opinion lol "muslim man staring" what is the difference arab or foreign it same and called "rude" or it become big deal cuze he muslim lots ppl staring.... arabs indiain japanese i bet in US and UK too.

anyway this is boring ill leave this ***and ill keep play in peace, in the end it policies on the top of me and you, not in our hands to change. peace \o/

Actually it does, both the Qu'ran and Hadith mention veiling of women. It's a shame some Muslims don't even know their own book. :/

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/Quran/007-veils.htm
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By semimmortal 2010-05-03 03:28:10
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Trebold said:
Actually it does, both the Qu'ran and Hadith mention veiling of women. It's a shame some Muslims don't even know their own book. :/
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/Quran/007-veils.htm
Where? oh and here's the script from that fail site you're using as a source (which explains a lot).
Quote:
Qur'an (24:31) - Commands women to "draw their headscarves" over their neckline as well.

Qur'an (33:59) - "Tell thy wives and thy daughters and the women of the believers to draw their cloaks close round them..."

Qur'an (24:31) - "And say to the believing women that they cast down their looks and guard their private parts and do not display their ornaments except what appears thereof, and let them wear their head-coverings over their bosoms, and not display their ornaments except to their husbands or their fathers, or the fathers of their husbands, or their sons, or the sons of their husbands, or their brothers, or their brothers' sons, or their sisters' sons, or their women, or those whom their right hands possess, or the male servants not having need (of women), or the children who have not attained knowledge of what is hidden of women; and let them not strike their feet so that what they hide of their ornaments may be known." The woman is not only supposed to cover herself, except with relatives, but to look down, so as to avoid making eye-contact with men.
All I see is scarves and clocks... or are you going to tell me that there's a deep and hidden advice in there to actually cover your face too? >_>

Oh, Hadith won't count. There are multiple versions of those, to a degree of splitting Muslims into different groups. Basically one can go as far as saying veil is a must, while others can say you can go out naked.

Difference is due to the teller of the Hadith. each group has their own reliable teller of the Prophet's sayings (which is what a Hadith is if I remember).
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 Valefor.Slipispsycho
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By Valefor.Slipispsycho 2010-05-03 03:29:11
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By Rieekil 2010-05-03 03:30:40
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lol thats alot to read ;p well i guess i'll skip to the part where i replay

look for me bein raised in Islamic country like kuwait there was always always always someone just like idol nd well respected by the ppl who will keep saying if u didnt do this u will go to hell or this is taboo or this is against god well or or or or .. there is no end to it
nd u cant say anything koz everyone is on their side ...
for me there no such thing as religion ... it's just something ppl come up with to give them a reason to start wars nd rank ppl by their religion
nd about the criticizing part ... sure why not ... but also if it's gonna hurt some manics ppl feelings nd gonna koz bad reactions by stupid sheepz ... then why someone would provoke their anger nd stupidity against them ?!
just leave them in pace well u ;p
for me it's bad enough that i have all those thought about the Islam nd things like that lool if i spoke even a word i know there will be some stupid reaction toward me ... so i just leave those thoughts to myself lol ;p

donno if i really made my point ... it's kinda hard to say whats on my mind with this level of english XD
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By Trebold 2010-05-03 03:37:01
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Rieekil said:
lol thats alot to read ;p well i guess i'll skip to the part where i replay

look for me bein raised in Islamic country like kuwait there was always always always someone just like idol nd well respected by the ppl who will keep saying if u didnt do this u will go to hell or this is taboo or this is against god well or or or or .. there is no end to it
nd u cant say anything koz everyone is on their side ...
for me there no such thing as religion ... it's just something ppl come up with to give them a reason to start wars nd rank ppl by their religion
nd about the criticizing part ... sure why not ... but also if it's gonna hurt some manics ppl feelings nd gonna koz bad reactions by stupid sheepz ... then why someone would provoke their anger nd stupidity against them ?!
just leave them in pace well u ;p
for me it's bad enough that i have all those thought about the Islam nd things like that lool if i spoke even a word i know there will be some stupid reaction toward me ... so i just leave those thoughts to myself lol ;p

donno if i really made my point ... it's kinda hard to say whats on my mind with this level of english XD

You're reminding me of this person:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RVPi2jMeDig&feature=related

It seems you've reasoned logically and came to a conclusion of your own, despite the commands and actions of others.


Also, I'm glad this didn't happen to you:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ggQXpeSQ-rg&feature=player_embedded
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By Trebold 2010-05-03 03:41:51
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semimmortal said:
Trebold said:
Actually it does, both the Qu'ran and Hadith mention veiling of women. It's a shame some Muslims don't even know their own book. :/
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/Quran/007-veils.htm
Where? oh and here's the script from that fail site you're using as a source (which explains a lot).
Quote:
Qur'an (24:31) - Commands women to "draw their headscarves" over their neckline as well.

Qur'an (33:59) - "Tell thy wives and thy daughters and the women of the believers to draw their cloaks close round them..."

Qur'an (24:31) - "And say to the believing women that they cast down their looks and guard their private parts and do not display their ornaments except what appears thereof, and let them wear their head-coverings over their bosoms, and not display their ornaments except to their husbands or their fathers, or the fathers of their husbands, or their sons, or the sons of their husbands, or their brothers, or their brothers' sons, or their sisters' sons, or their women, or those whom their right hands possess, or the male servants not having need (of women), or the children who have not attained knowledge of what is hidden of women; and let them not strike their feet so that what they hide of their ornaments may be known." The woman is not only supposed to cover herself, except with relatives, but to look down, so as to avoid making eye-contact with men.
All I see is scarves and clocks... or are you going to tell me that there's a deep and hidden advice in there to actually cover your face too? >_>

Oh, Hadith won't count. There are multiple versions of those, to a degree of splitting Muslims into different groups. Basically one can go as far as saying veil is a must, while others can say you can go out naked.

Difference is due to the teller of the Hadith. each group has their own reliable teller of the Prophet's sayings (which is what a Hadith is if I remember).

Actually, the Hadith ARE used as a starting point for Islamic Laws. So, don't just say that the Qu'ran is the only meaningful book to Muslims.

http://www.astudyofquran.org/web/index.php?id=67,0,0,1,0,0

But that's besides the point, because Muslims still use those passages from the Qu'ran as a defense for making laws concerning covering a woman's body/hair.
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By semimmortal 2010-05-03 04:05:47
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Trebold said:
Actually, the Hadith ARE used as a starting point for Islamic Laws. So, don't just say that the Qu'ran is the only meaningful book to Muslims.

http://www.astudyofquran.org/web/index.php?id=67,0,0,1,0,0

But that's besides the point, because Muslims still use those passages from the Qu'ran as a defense for making laws concerning covering a woman's body/hair.
Oh look, I can pull things out from google too!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hadith#History
Quote:
the wide acceptance that many of these traditions were fabricated stimulated the development for assessing Hadith. Scholars of the Abbasid period were faced with a huge corpus of miscellaneous traditions, some of them flatly contradicting each other. Many of these traditions supported differing views on a variety of controversial matters.
Didn't copy & paste them all, but it's explained further below that they're split into factions too.

Qu'ran though, IIRC, is the same to all type(?) of Muslims. No change in chapters, paragraphs, sentences, words.

Anyways, just clarifying that the Hadith is pretty inconsistent as mentioned. Also trying to help the poor guy you've just slapped in the face out with that failsauce lol.
He mentioned book. By book, I don't think it's anything other than the Qu'ran. You said it was mentioned there. I don't see any.
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By Trebold 2010-05-03 04:12:08
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semimmortal said:
Trebold said:
Actually, the Hadith ARE used as a starting point for Islamic Laws. So, don't just say that the Qu'ran is the only meaningful book to Muslims.

http://www.astudyofquran.org/web/index.php?id=67,0,0,1,0,0

But that's besides the point, because Muslims still use those passages from the Qu'ran as a defense for making laws concerning covering a woman's body/hair.
Oh look, I can pull things out from google too!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hadith#History
Quote:
the wide acceptance that many of these traditions were fabricated stimulated the development for assessing Hadith. Scholars of the Abbasid period were faced with a huge corpus of miscellaneous traditions, some of them flatly contradicting each other. Many of these traditions supported differing views on a variety of controversial matters.
Didn't copy & paste them all, but it's explained further below that they're split into factions too.

Qu'ran though, IIRC, is the same to all type(?) of Muslims. No change in chapters, paragraphs, sentences, words.

Anyways, just clarifying that the Hadith is pretty inconsistent as mentioned. Also trying to help the poor guy you've just slapped in the face out with that failsauce lol.
He mentioned book. By book, I don't think it's anything other than the Qu'ran. You said it was mentioned there. I don't see any.

In your very own source, mind you:

Scholars had to decide which hadith were to be trusted as authentic and which had been invented for political or theological purposes. To do this, they used a number of techniques which Muslims now call the science of hadith.

Explicitly stating that some are trusted today. Implicitly for active use in religious and political policies. You're digging your own grave?


Qur'an (24:31) - Commands women to "draw their headscarves" over their neckline as well.

Qur'an (33:59) - "Tell thy wives and thy daughters and the women of the believers to draw their cloaks close round them..."

Qur'an (24:31) - "And say to the believing women that they cast down their looks and guard their private parts and do not display their ornaments except what appears thereof, and let them wear their head-coverings over their bosoms, and not display their ornaments except to their husbands or their fathers, or the fathers of their husbands, or their sons, or the sons of their husbands, or their brothers, or their brothers' sons, or their sisters' sons, or their women, or those whom their right hands possess, or the male servants not having need (of women), or the children who have not attained knowledge of what is hidden of women; and let them not strike their feet so that what they hide of their ornaments may be known." The woman is not only supposed to cover herself, except with relatives, but to look down, so as to avoid making eye-contact with men.
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By Trebold 2010-05-03 04:16:06
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Here's a Pro-Islamic site, since you're convinced my other source is absurd.

http://www.islamcan.com/common-questions-about-islam/why-do-muslim-women-cover-their-heads-isnt-this-a-sign-of-subjection-of-women.shtml

Incoming wall of text:

Muslim women cover their heads because God so directed in His final book, the Glorious Qur'an. The head cover is specifically mentioned in 24:31. This instruction from God is only one aspect of a wider context of purity of thought and action for men and women.

Islam has very strict rules against adultery and fornication, and introduces many cautious measures to ensure the prevention and avoidance of such sins. One measure is the prescription that men and women should avoid intermingling as far as possible (see Qur'an 33:53). This is why men and women pray in separate areas or separate rows in the mosque. Another measure is that men and women should cover the specified areas of their bodies the sight of which arouse sexual desire in others (see Qur'an 7:26; 33:59). Yet another measure is that men and women should lower or turn their gaze away from looking at a person of the opposite sex (see Qur'an 24:31).

The idea that the head covering is a sign of subjection of women is found not in the Qur'an but in another religious book with which the Qur'an does not always agree. That other book teaches that women should have a sign of authority over their heads because man was not created from woman, but woman from man. The same book says that a man should not cover his head because he is the image and glory of God; and a woman should cover her head because she is the glory of man. The Qur'an does not identify with any of these ideas. The Qur'anic prescription of head cover does not in any way imply the subjection of women.

People often confuse the Islamic prescriptions with ideas they are already familiar with. Therefore when they see Muslim women covering their heads they hastily conclude that it is for the same reasons mentioned in some other religious book. But to gain a better understanding of Islamic prescriptions, they have to be viewed within the framework of Islamic thought.

Another mistake made by many is as follows. When they hear that the Qur'an includes the story of Adam and Eve they conclude that the Qur'an also upholds the idea that Eve was responsible for the fall of man, and that the subjection of women is a necessary result of God's curse on them. On the contrary, the Qur'an is free of such ideas. In the Qur'an, Adam and Eve were both approached by the Devil. The Devil did not approach Adam through Eve. Adam is therefore specifically blamed in the Qur'an 20:121. In other verses they are both blamed; but in no verse is Eve alone singled out to be blamed for the fall of man. Although men are charged with the responsibility of leadership in Islam too, this is in view of the practical dynamics of human interaction as prescribed by God. It is not because of a curse on women.

It would be a mistake to take the prescriptions of Islam and associate them with ideas held outside of Islam. Within Islam, women are capable of as much good as men, and they stand before God equally honored.
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By Valefor.Slipispsycho 2010-05-03 04:16:41
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Why don't both parties just let it go... ?

As I've stated, as long as there opposing religions, ***like this will happen.. (in this sense, even Anostism and Aetheism count as 'religion')

I'm Atheist (the 'worst' kind infact, I have probably read the Bible more then most Christians do), so believe me, I have experience picking apart the texts of any religion..

But you know what? It gets no where.. It's like talking to a brick wall... Quoting the Qa'ran isn't going to lead anyone anywhere... ***... You know how many republican *** use this as 'ammo?' what about what's talked about in the Bible? Do you even realize how many have been killed in the name of the CHRISTIAN God? It's no different IMO..

People always like to use the whole 'infidel' thing as ammo against Muslim EXTREMISTS (note, I said extremists) but what about all ***the Christian God says? Or is it just conveinent to forget about all that?

EDIT: I'm only adding this because so many other religious people have attempted to use this information as 'ammo' but I used to be Christian.. You might say I was Christian, then lost my faith, and refound it, only to become what I am today.. I was Christian til about the age of 11, then my father came back in my life at 15 who is ~Christian~ and made me want to believe again (PM me if you'd like the story, I'd be glad to share it) then I started thinking again..

Whether you care to believe it or not (if you're a Christian) I know more about your God, and have followed his teachings, far more then you have most likely.. I have studied it extensively, I lived most of my life by 'The Lord's teachings', I followed it by the letter I know your God well... I'm not an Aethiest just because I have a rebellious attitude, I'm Aethiest because I believe that there is a higher meaning to life, but no in the way Christians conceive (if you wish to know what I'm referring to, feel free to PM me on this as well, as I wouldn't mind in the least explaining)
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By semimmortal 2010-05-03 04:18:00
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Not sure how I dug my own grave >_>

But where's the covering/masking/veiling the face part in the Qur'an you've listed?

Bold it for me, I'm feeling stupid today. That, or I need a new pair of glasses.
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By Trebold 2010-05-03 04:25:40
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Valefor.Slipispsycho said:
Why don't both parties just let it go... ?

As I've stated, as long as there opposing religions, ***like this will happen.. (in this sense, even Anostism and Aetheism count as 'religion')

I'm Atheist (the 'worst' kind infact, I have probably read the Bible more then most Christians do), so believe me, I have experience picking apart the texts of any religion..

But you know what? It gets no where.. It's like talking to a brick wall... Quoting the Qa'ran isn't going to lead anyone anywhere... ***... You know how many republican *** use this as 'ammo?' what about what's talked about in the Bible? Do you even realize how many have been killed in the name of the CHRISTIAN God? It's no different IMO..

People always like to use the whole 'infidel' thing as ammo against Muslim EXTREMISTS (note, I said extremists) but what about all ***the Christian God says? Or is it just conveinent to forget about all that?

Yes, I realize how many have been killed in the name of the Christian god. It isn't different, other than the fact that we're allowed free speech against Christianity, but as soon as Islam is mentioned, death threats are made. I promise you, if Christians were doing the same *** as Islam is in my country right now, I'd be just as pissed about that.

I don't want my children to live in a world where there isn't freedom? Where we're oppressed by Islamic Law on a day-to-day basis. We're taught about corruption in amazing books in our youth, why not stand up against said corruption? I don't want to stand idly by, not voicing my ideas, simply because it's not a politically correct to do.

"The world is a dangerous place to live, not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it." - Albert Einstein (1879-1955)
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By Ragnarok.Rieekil 2010-05-03 04:33:11
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Trebold said:
Rieekil said:
lol thats alot to read ;p well i guess i'll skip to the part where i replay

look for me bein raised in Islamic country like kuwait there was always always always someone just like idol nd well respected by the ppl who will keep saying if u didnt do this u will go to hell or this is taboo or this is against god well or or or or .. there is no end to it
nd u cant say anything koz everyone is on their side ...
for me there no such thing as religion ... it's just something ppl come up with to give them a reason to start wars nd rank ppl by their religion
nd about the criticizing part ... sure why not ... but also if it's gonna hurt some manics ppl feelings nd gonna koz bad reactions by stupid sheepz ... then why someone would provoke their anger nd stupidity against them ?!
just leave them in pace well u ;p
for me it's bad enough that i have all those thought about the Islam nd things like that lool if i spoke even a word i know there will be some stupid reaction toward me ... so i just leave those thoughts to myself lol ;p

donno if i really made my point ... it's kinda hard to say whats on my mind with this level of english XD

You're reminding me of this person:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RVPi2jMeDig&feature=related

It seems you've reasoned logically and came to a conclusion of your own, despite the commands and actions of others.


Also, I'm glad this didn't happen to you:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ggQXpeSQ-rg&feature=player_embedded


um.... the problem isnt in islam itself ...
i born here nd studied about it nd everything
even my parents against my opinin but they believe it's better for me to finger out my own believes lucky me for having an open minded parents

islam is perfect ,,, really as way of living it's just have it all
of course when i say studied .. i mean only the parts they wanted us to know ;p
but the problem is the ppl who use it for their own needs nd take advantage of some retard ppl
here where alll the bad thing started :(

just like the second video the imam thingy ... it's like the priest thing
a person who have ppl attention nd ppl obey him with out questioning him ... which i find disgusting .... they will obey him no matter what either it's wrong or right ..

there is still ppl like him in kuwait but for me kuwait it's heaven compared to other islamic countries

as Muslim women in kuwait
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YxmyCy6d3_0

;p
i think this video if 5 years old lool they cab vote now nd everything
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By Valefor.Slipispsycho 2010-05-03 04:36:03
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Trebold said:
Valefor.Slipispsycho said:
Why don't both parties just let it go... ?

As I've stated, as long as there opposing religions, ***like this will happen.. (in this sense, even Anostism and Aetheism count as 'religion')

I'm Atheist (the 'worst' kind infact, I have probably read the Bible more then most Christians do), so believe me, I have experience picking apart the texts of any religion..

But you know what? It gets no where.. It's like talking to a brick wall... Quoting the Qa'ran isn't going to lead anyone anywhere... ***... You know how many republican *** use this as 'ammo?' what about what's talked about in the Bible? Do you even realize how many have been killed in the name of the CHRISTIAN God? It's no different IMO..

People always like to use the whole 'infidel' thing as ammo against Muslim EXTREMISTS (note, I said extremists) but what about all ***the Christian God says? Or is it just conveinent to forget about all that?

Yes, I realize how many have been killed in the name of the Christian god. It isn't different, other than the fact that we're allowed free speech against Christianity, but as soon as Islam is mentioned, death threats are made. I promise you, if Christians were doing the same *** as Islam is in my country right now, I'd be just as pissed about that.

I don't want my children to live in a world where there isn't freedom? Where we're oppressed by Islamic Law on a day-to-day basis. We're taught about corruption in amazing books in our youth, why not stand up against said corruption? I don't want to stand idly by, not voicing my ideas, simply because it's not a politically correct to do.

"The world is a dangerous place to live, not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it." - Albert Einstein (1879-1955)

How is it different? Are you familiar with something called the Iron Maiden? How about the Pear? Both were used almost exclusively durring the crusades... (these are just two of the more elaborate devices.. A red hot silver spoon was far more common)

Or hell, even the rack.. Do you know why the majority of these people were doomed to suffer (until death) such devices? To make someone who spoke out (or was even accused of speaking out) against Christianity..'take it back' The Iron Maiden was a body shaped cercaphagus like device with razor pointed spikes meant to only pierce spots where there wasn't a major organ.. Do you know why? So your suffering before death could be prolonged to the maximum extent.. Why would you be put in this device? Because you spoke out against 'The one and true God'.

What is the pear? Think of a pear, then split it in 3 equal parts, from top to bottom, make it of iron/steel (maybe brass, point is, it's metal and not going to give to flesh/bone) and put a cork screw in it, stick it in a cavity of the body (mouth, vagina, anus) and begin screwing the handle around until it opened up (the spikes on the end would cause massive internal bleeding if for some odd reason stretching the oraphice open so wide didn't. Why would it be used? Sodomy, Adultery and Heresy (you can figure out what each three 'crimes' resulted in which oraphice

Why as the rack invented? You ever watched Braveheart? You know at the end when he's tortured? That's why.. They used it to inflict severe pain unto you, until you caved just to end the pain and admitted whatever they wanted you to, more times then not, you received that because of heresy..

Christianity has only been 'free' for a couple hundred years.. Look up Gallileo, he was alive only a few hundred years ago, and him turning a telescope to the stars and making 'grandoise' claims nearly had him executed, today he's seen as a one of the most eye opening scientists of all time, but if the church had it's way, they'd still have you believing that God just created us, and that WE are the center of the universe, because we are God's children, WE MUST be the center..
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By Trebold 2010-05-03 04:41:15
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Valefor.Slipispsycho said:
Trebold said:
Valefor.Slipispsycho said:
Why don't both parties just let it go... ?

As I've stated, as long as there opposing religions, ***like this will happen.. (in this sense, even Anostism and Aetheism count as 'religion')

I'm Atheist (the 'worst' kind infact, I have probably read the Bible more then most Christians do), so believe me, I have experience picking apart the texts of any religion..

But you know what? It gets no where.. It's like talking to a brick wall... Quoting the Qa'ran isn't going to lead anyone anywhere... ***... You know how many republican *** use this as 'ammo?' what about what's talked about in the Bible? Do you even realize how many have been killed in the name of the CHRISTIAN God? It's no different IMO..

People always like to use the whole 'infidel' thing as ammo against Muslim EXTREMISTS (note, I said extremists) but what about all ***the Christian God says? Or is it just conveinent to forget about all that?

Yes, I realize how many have been killed in the name of the Christian god. It isn't different, other than the fact that we're allowed free speech against Christianity, but as soon as Islam is mentioned, death threats are made. I promise you, if Christians were doing the same *** as Islam is in my country right now, I'd be just as pissed about that.

I don't want my children to live in a world where there isn't freedom? Where we're oppressed by Islamic Law on a day-to-day basis. We're taught about corruption in amazing books in our youth, why not stand up against said corruption? I don't want to stand idly by, not voicing my ideas, simply because it's not a politically correct to do.

"The world is a dangerous place to live, not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it." - Albert Einstein (1879-1955)

How is it different? Are you familiar with something called the Iron Maiden? How about the Pear? Both were used almost exclusively durring the crusades... (these are just two of the more elaborate devices.. A red hot silver spoon was far more common)

Or hell, even the rack.. Do you know why the majority of these people were doomed to suffer (until death) such devices? To make someone who spoke out (or was even accused of speaking out) against Christianity.. The Iron Maiden was a body shaped cercaphagus like device with razor pointed spikes meant to only pierce spots where there wasn't a major organ.. Do you know why? So your suffering before death could be prolonged to the maximum extent.. Why would you be put in this device? Because you spoke out against 'The one and true God'.

What is the pear? Think of a pear, then split it in 3 equal parts, from top to bottom, make it of iron/steel (maybe brass, point is, it's metal and not going to give to flesh/bone) and put a cork screw in it, stick it in a cavity of the body (mouth, vagina, anus) and begin screwing the handle around until it opened up (the spikes on the end would cause massive internal bleeding if for some odd reason stretching the oraphice open so wide didn't. Why would it be used? Sodomy, Adultery and Heresy (you can figure out what each three 'crimes' resulted in which oraphice

Why as the rack invented? You ever watched Braveheart? You know at the end when he's tortured? That's why.. They used it to inflict severe pain unto you, until you caved just to end the pain and admitted whatever they wanted you to, more times then not, you received that because of heresy..


Do you really expect me to change the past? The only thing that people can do on this earth, RIGHT NOW, is to affect the future. Every step you make in the present will shape the future. I firmly believe that the past repeats itself, but only because people allow it to. I don't care about that ***, I care about things happening IN MY LIFETIME. If you want to QQ over the past, be my guest.

Again, I end with quotation.

"All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent." - Thomas Jefferson (1743-1826)
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By Valefor.Slipispsycho 2010-05-03 04:47:45
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If you think Christianity has always been about choice/freedom of speech, you REALLY need to brush up on your history.. Christianity has been around for 2000+ years (it's quite possible it goes back even further, but almost all of the documented evidence leads to around 2000 years) yet, only about 10% of that has been the way most alive to day even know it..

Christianity is absolutely no different then the Muslim religion.. I'd invite you to look through my previous posts in this thread if you think I'm just trying to defend the Muslims, but it wouldn't matter anyways, since most Christians just refuse whatever evidence is given against their God.. Everyone has this fairy tale of how good and gracious God is, yet they just refuse whole heartedly to note the contradictions.

Prime example, the Modern Text and Old World Gods are almost like fire and ice... Yet it IS the same God... One group says he's vengeful and demanding, while the other says he's all forgiving and understanding.. Both come from the same religion, but even God can't be both, It makes *** all how omnipotent he is, he either is forgiving or he is vengeful.
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By semimmortal 2010-05-03 04:57:29
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Makes me wonder what do you mean by "freedom" now... to allow South Park with the uncensored version of Muhammed? Omg, this is violating my freedom!

"U Mad?" Cam’Ron 2003
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By Valefor.Slipispsycho 2010-05-03 04:57:34
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Trebold said:
Valefor.Slipispsycho said:
Trebold said:
Valefor.Slipispsycho said:
Why don't both parties just let it go... ?

As I've stated, as long as there opposing religions, ***like this will happen.. (in this sense, even Anostism and Aetheism count as 'religion')

I'm Atheist (the 'worst' kind infact, I have probably read the Bible more then most Christians do), so believe me, I have experience picking apart the texts of any religion..

But you know what? It gets no where.. It's like talking to a brick wall... Quoting the Qa'ran isn't going to lead anyone anywhere... ***... You know how many republican *** use this as 'ammo?' what about what's talked about in the Bible? Do you even realize how many have been killed in the name of the CHRISTIAN God? It's no different IMO..

People always like to use the whole 'infidel' thing as ammo against Muslim EXTREMISTS (note, I said extremists) but what about all ***the Christian God says? Or is it just conveinent to forget about all that?

Yes, I realize how many have been killed in the name of the Christian god. It isn't different, other than the fact that we're allowed free speech against Christianity, but as soon as Islam is mentioned, death threats are made. I promise you, if Christians were doing the same *** as Islam is in my country right now, I'd be just as pissed about that.

I don't want my children to live in a world where there isn't freedom? Where we're oppressed by Islamic Law on a day-to-day basis. We're taught about corruption in amazing books in our youth, why not stand up against said corruption? I don't want to stand idly by, not voicing my ideas, simply because it's not a politically correct to do.

"The world is a dangerous place to live, not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it." - Albert Einstein (1879-1955)

How is it different? Are you familiar with something called the Iron Maiden? How about the Pear? Both were used almost exclusively durring the crusades... (these are just two of the more elaborate devices.. A red hot silver spoon was far more common)

Or hell, even the rack.. Do you know why the majority of these people were doomed to suffer (until death) such devices? To make someone who spoke out (or was even accused of speaking out) against Christianity.. The Iron Maiden was a body shaped cercaphagus like device with razor pointed spikes meant to only pierce spots where there wasn't a major organ.. Do you know why? So your suffering before death could be prolonged to the maximum extent.. Why would you be put in this device? Because you spoke out against 'The one and true God'.

What is the pear? Think of a pear, then split it in 3 equal parts, from top to bottom, make it of iron/steel (maybe brass, point is, it's metal and not going to give to flesh/bone) and put a cork screw in it, stick it in a cavity of the body (mouth, vagina, anus) and begin screwing the handle around until it opened up (the spikes on the end would cause massive internal bleeding if for some odd reason stretching the oraphice open so wide didn't. Why would it be used? Sodomy, Adultery and Heresy (you can figure out what each three 'crimes' resulted in which oraphice

Why as the rack invented? You ever watched Braveheart? You know at the end when he's tortured? That's why.. They used it to inflict severe pain unto you, until you caved just to end the pain and admitted whatever they wanted you to, more times then not, you received that because of heresy..


Do you really expect me to change the past? The only thing that people can do on this earth, RIGHT NOW, is to affect the future. Every step you make in the present will shape the future. I firmly believe that the past repeats itself, but only because people allow it to. I don't care about that ***, I care about things happening IN MY LIFETIME. If you want to QQ over the past, be my guest.

Again, I end with quotation.

"All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent." - Thomas Jefferson (1743-1826)

Okay look dude, I do respect you, even from before this argument, so please don't take this like you are personally being attacked (which it seems you're taking it pretty personally ATM)

I'm not saying you can change the past, I can't change that my race a few hundred years ago just kept holding people as slaves (which reduces them to animals more or less) I'm not even telling you to change your beliefs, all I'm saying is, is that Christianity is no higher up the 'abuse ladder' then Muslims..

It just really bothers me when I see things like this.. I hate, hate HATE double standards.. Sad thing is countless American's hold this double standard (just google around and look up any news story involving Muslims and look at the comments on it.. 9 times out of 10 you will see the very thing I'm talking about here.. )

You know the saying, don't throw bricks if you live in a glass house.. The Christian religion was the EXACT same..

In 500 years, even the most heartless and dispicible acts that Exremists carry out now, will be looked upon as the crusades are looked up on now..

In short the Muslim religion now, is nothing more then the Christian religion of the past.

Final note (and one you should really contemplate): If you can't admit the flaws and shortcomings that are present now, how can you ever expect something to 'grow' and 'evolve'?
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By Trebold 2010-05-03 05:01:20
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Valefor.Slipispsycho said:
If you think Christianity has always been about choice/freedom of speech, you REALLY need to brush up on your history.. Christianity has been around for 2000+ years (it's quite possible it goes back even further, but almost all of the documented evidence leads to around 2000 years) yet, only about 10% of that has been the way most alive to day even know it..

Christianity is absolutely no different then the Muslim religion.. I'd invite you to look through my previous posts in this thread if you think I'm just trying to defend the Muslims, but it wouldn't matter anyways, since most Christians just refuse whatever evidence is given against their God.. Everyone has this fairy tale of how good and gracious God is, yet they just refuse whole heartedly to note the contradictions.

Prime example, the Modern Text and Old World Gods are almost like fire and ice... Yet it IS the same God... One group says he's vengeful and demanding, while the other says he's all forgiving and understanding.. Both come from the same religion, but even God can't be both, It makes *** all how omnipotent he is, he either is forgiving or he is vengeful.

I wish I knew what you were smoking. Or if you were suddenly blinded and can't read? Have I said anything positive on this page about Christianity? Other than the fact that they don't send out death threats when their religion is being mocked by media.

Nobody criticizes Islam, not because it's perfect(which is a *** joke), but because people are too *** scared to do it. And if they're not scared, they're just aiming to be one of the politically correct posse, who pats themselves on the back while letting the Muslim community walk all over them.

American media hasn't let Christianity walk all over it. Hell, even the kid's show 'The Simpsons' pokes fun of Christianity, which is a right that they should have. The fact that they can't laugh about Islam without someone getting upset is what I can't believe, and I won't stand for. If people aren't willing to deal with freedom of speech, then they should simply leave this country. Go back to a country of oppression. If Hindus, Buddhists, Shinto-followers, Satanists, Wiccans, Jews, or Christians caused the same kind of stink that Muslims do, then I'd be saying the same thing about them.

"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction." - Blaise Pascal (1623-62)
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By Trebold 2010-05-03 05:04:32
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semimmortal said:
Makes me wonder what do you mean by "freedom" now... to allow South Park with the uncensored version of Muhammed? Omg, this is violating my freedom!

"U Mad?" Cam’Ron 2003

Something so little as not being allowed to do that, can evolve into something so large. And anyone who doesn't believe that pushing 1 inch every year for the next thousands of years will never accomplish anything is a complete fool.
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By Odin.Zicdeh 2010-05-03 05:04:34
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Pretty sure Christianity did have a time when it repressed everything not "of God", I think it was called the Dark Ages.
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