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Why is it so difficult to criticize Islam without angrying it deeply?
Phoenix.Darki
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By Phoenix.Darki 2010-05-01 19:38:40
Quetzalcoatl.Sectumsempra said: Shiva.Flionheart said: I don't even give my opinions on these matters, I'd be thrown out into the street and stoned most likely ;-; My views are borderline heretical, apparently.
Something to do with me not recognizing Israel as a country appears to piss people off.
Why isn't Israel a country again?
By Trebold 2010-05-01 19:38:53
Asura.Balufalu said: semimmortal said: Actually, if you look deep into why they're doing so, is similar to how nuns cover up their body completely.
Modesty, faithfulness, etc.
This is pretty low to criticize on, and only makes us look bad to look down on them for that...
Amen to this, isn't the whole point of them covering their bodies supposed to be because Their body is for their husband's eyes only?
Are the other three wives of the husband allowed to see each other without being fully clothed?
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By Shiva.Flionheart 2010-05-01 19:39:06
Don't get me started on Mormons... They know my only weakness :(
Phoenix.Darki
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By Phoenix.Darki 2010-05-01 19:39:41
semimmortal said: Trebold said: semimmortal said: Trebold said: Surah 9:5
"When the sacred months are over slay the idolaters wherever you find them. Arrest them, besiege them, and lie in ambush everywhere for them. If they repent and take to prayer and render the alms levy, allow them to go their way. God is forgiving and merciful." Dude... you do know this applies only to their region in the past?
read moar
9:1 A declaration of immunity from God and His apostle to the idolaters with whom you have made agreements:
9:2 For four months you shall go unmolested in the land. But know that you shall not escape God’s judgement, and that God will humble the unbelievers.
9:3 A proclamation to the people from God and His apostle on the day of the greater pilgrimage:
God and His apostle are under no obligation to the idolaters. If you repent, it shall be well with you; but if you give no heed, know that you shall not be immune from God’s judgement.
Proclaim a woeful punishment to the unbelievers,
9:4 except to those idolaters who have honoured their treaties with you in every detail and aided none against you. With these keep faith, until their treaties have run their term. God loves the righteous.
9:5 When the sacred months are over slay the idolaters wherever you find them. Arrest them, besiege them, and lie in ambush everywhere for them. If they repent and take to prayer and render the alms levy, allow them to go their way. God is forgiving and merciful.
9:6 If an idolater seeks asylum with you, give him protection so that he may hear the Word of God, and then convey him to safety. For the idolaters are ignorant men.
9:7 God and His apostle repose no trust in idolaters, save those with whom you have made treaties at the Sacred Mosque. So long as they keep faith with you, keep faith with them. God loves the righteous.
9:8 How can you trust them? If they prevail against you they will respect neither agreements nor ties of kindred. They flatter you with their tongues, but their hearts reject you. Most of them are evil doers.
Yes, because this says: "oh, by the way, guys, only do this between the years 500 AD to 1500 AD, ok?" Only proved it more so lol.
Read before copy/paste, and learn wtf they're talking about.
Hint in case of retardism: Research the idols in that era and their believers.
I got in Philosophy class an A ~.~ most of the things discussed here are pure retardness anyways. Might aswell fight retardness with more retardness....
Phoenix.Darki
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By Phoenix.Darki 2010-05-01 19:40:21
Trebold said: Asura.Balufalu said: semimmortal said: Actually, if you look deep into why they're doing so, is similar to how nuns cover up their body completely.
Modesty, faithfulness, etc.
This is pretty low to criticize on, and only makes us look bad to look down on them for that...
Amen to this, isn't the whole point of them covering their bodies supposed to be because Their body is for their husband's eyes only?
Are the other three wives of the husband allowed to see each other without being fully clothed?
:O never thought about that if they do those things! Oh my in the name of the Lord!
By semimmortal 2010-05-01 19:40:24
Asura.Balufalu said: semimmortal said: Actually, if you look deep into why they're doing so, is similar to how nuns cover up their body completely.
Modesty, faithfulness, etc.
This is pretty low to criticize on, and only makes us look bad to look down on them for that...
Amen to this, isn't the whole point of them covering their bodies supposed to be because Their body is for their husband's eyes only? This is true, as well as some of their close family members.
Lived with some Muslim friends (oh ***, and some were girls too!), that's how I've come to understand their religion :P
By Trebold 2010-05-01 19:40:44
semimmortal said: Trebold said: semimmortal said: Trebold said: Surah 9:5
"When the sacred months are over slay the idolaters wherever you find them. Arrest them, besiege them, and lie in ambush everywhere for them. If they repent and take to prayer and render the alms levy, allow them to go their way. God is forgiving and merciful." Dude... you do know this applies only to their region in the past?
read moar
9:1 A declaration of immunity from God and His apostle to the idolaters with whom you have made agreements:
9:2 For four months you shall go unmolested in the land. But know that you shall not escape God’s judgement, and that God will humble the unbelievers.
9:3 A proclamation to the people from God and His apostle on the day of the greater pilgrimage:
God and His apostle are under no obligation to the idolaters. If you repent, it shall be well with you; but if you give no heed, know that you shall not be immune from God’s judgement.
Proclaim a woeful punishment to the unbelievers,
9:4 except to those idolaters who have honoured their treaties with you in every detail and aided none against you. With these keep faith, until their treaties have run their term. God loves the righteous.
9:5 When the sacred months are over slay the idolaters wherever you find them. Arrest them, besiege them, and lie in ambush everywhere for them. If they repent and take to prayer and render the alms levy, allow them to go their way. God is forgiving and merciful.
9:6 If an idolater seeks asylum with you, give him protection so that he may hear the Word of God, and then convey him to safety. For the idolaters are ignorant men.
9:7 God and His apostle repose no trust in idolaters, save those with whom you have made treaties at the Sacred Mosque. So long as they keep faith with you, keep faith with them. God loves the righteous.
9:8 How can you trust them? If they prevail against you they will respect neither agreements nor ties of kindred. They flatter you with their tongues, but their hearts reject you. Most of them are evil doers.
Yes, because this says: "oh, by the way, guys, only do this between the years 500 AD to 1500 AD, ok?" Only proved it more so lol.
Read before copy/paste, and learn wtf they're talking about.
Hint in case of retardism: Research the idols in that era and their believers.
tl;dr: "Keep looking you'll find my point in it eventually, even if it may or may not exist!"
gogogogo "do sum research" copout
Asura.Korpg
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By Asura.Korpg 2010-05-01 19:41:33
semimmortal said: Actually, if you look deep into why they're doing so, is similar to how nuns cover up their body completely.
Modesty, faithfulness, etc.
This is pretty low to criticize on, and only makes us look bad to look down on them for that... Wait, are you saying that it was entirely their choice, every single one of them, to do that?
It wasn't a society thing? I thought Islam required their religion to be so integrated into their society that you have to eat, breath, and think Islam.
Also, I can bet you 100 bucks right now it was a guy who made all of the rules of Islam....
By Trebold 2010-05-01 19:43:12
There really should be a:
"You need to do your research" meme
or
"Get back to me when you've done your research" meme
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By Phoenix.Darki 2010-05-01 19:43:40
Asura.Korpg said: semimmortal said: Actually, if you look deep into why they're doing so, is similar to how nuns cover up their body completely.
Modesty, faithfulness, etc.
This is pretty low to criticize on, and only makes us look bad to look down on them for that... Wait, are you saying that it was entirely their choice, every single one of them, to do that?
It wasn't a society thing? I thought Islam required their religion to be so integrated into their society that you have to eat, breath, and think Islam.
Also, I can bet you 100 bucks right now it was a guy who made all of the rules of Islam....
Like the rest of rules in all humankind society really... Christianity isnt far from that, if you realize, God's heir is a male, the one who runs a church is supposed to be a male...
I think women deserve more respect than what we get though, cuz well we bear children .-.
By semimmortal 2010-05-01 19:43:45
Phoenix.Darki said: Quetzalcoatl.Sectumsempra said: Shiva.Flionheart said: I don't even give my opinions on these matters, I'd be thrown out into the street and stoned most likely ;-; My views are borderline heretical, apparently.
Something to do with me not recognizing Israel as a country appears to piss people off.
Why isn't Israel a country again? It actually used to be philistine before they've been taken over and renamed israel, at least that was the story. Phoenix.Darki said: I got in Philosophy class an A ~.~ most of the things discussed here are pure retardness anyways. Might aswell fight retardness with more retardness.... Philosophy? You don't mean History?
Ah, can see why you say studying it makes you HELP I AM TRAPPED IN 2006 PLEASE SEND A TIME MACHINE already!
Asura.Korpg
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By Asura.Korpg 2010-05-01 19:44:49
semimmortal said: Trebold said: semimmortal said: Trebold said: Surah 9:5
"When the sacred months are over slay the idolaters wherever you find them. Arrest them, besiege them, and lie in ambush everywhere for them. If they repent and take to prayer and render the alms levy, allow them to go their way. God is forgiving and merciful." Dude... you do know this applies only to their region in the past?
read moar
9:1 A declaration of immunity from God and His apostle to the idolaters with whom you have made agreements:
9:2 For four months you shall go unmolested in the land. But know that you shall not escape God’s judgement, and that God will humble the unbelievers.
9:3 A proclamation to the people from God and His apostle on the day of the greater pilgrimage:
God and His apostle are under no obligation to the idolaters. If you repent, it shall be well with you; but if you give no heed, know that you shall not be immune from God’s judgement.
Proclaim a woeful punishment to the unbelievers,
9:4 except to those idolaters who have honoured their treaties with you in every detail and aided none against you. With these keep faith, until their treaties have run their term. God loves the righteous.
9:5 When the sacred months are over slay the idolaters wherever you find them. Arrest them, besiege them, and lie in ambush everywhere for them. If they repent and take to prayer and render the alms levy, allow them to go their way. God is forgiving and merciful.
9:6 If an idolater seeks asylum with you, give him protection so that he may hear the Word of God, and then convey him to safety. For the idolaters are ignorant men.
9:7 God and His apostle repose no trust in idolaters, save those with whom you have made treaties at the Sacred Mosque. So long as they keep faith with you, keep faith with them. God loves the righteous.
9:8 How can you trust them? If they prevail against you they will respect neither agreements nor ties of kindred. They flatter you with their tongues, but their hearts reject you. Most of them are evil doers.
Yes, because this says: "oh, by the way, guys, only do this between the years 500 AD to 1500 AD, ok?" Only proved it more so lol.
Read before copy/paste, and learn wtf they're talking about.
Hint in case of retardism: Research the idols in that era and their believers. Hint for you: Is it still being practiced?
By semimmortal 2010-05-01 19:47:27
Asura.Korpg said: semimmortal said: Actually, if you look deep into why they're doing so, is similar to how nuns cover up their body completely.
Modesty, faithfulness, etc.
This is pretty low to criticize on, and only makes us look bad to look down on them for that... Wait, are you saying that it was entirely their choice, every single one of them, to do that?
It wasn't a society thing? I thought Islam required their religion to be so integrated into their society that you have to eat, breath, and think Islam.
Also, I can bet you 100 bucks right now it was a guy who made all of the rules of Islam.... Well, there wasn't any specific rules in Islam. The book is basically a story of the Prophet Mohamed (spelling?) and all the way to his death.
BUT, using the book, they can take the advices from it and apply it to their daily lives.
The hijab thing was actually an enhancement thing compared to what was happening in that era. Striptease everywhere. Which was part of the rival religion at that time (idol faiths).
Asura.Korpg
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By Asura.Korpg 2010-05-01 19:48:10
Phoenix.Darki said: Like the rest of rules in all humankind society really... Christianity isnt far from that, if you realize, God's heir is a male, the one who runs a church is supposed to be a male...
I think women deserve more respect than what we get though, cuz well we bear children .-. All religions (well, all practiced religions, you can't count some religions in Japan though) are like that.
See, we can't advance as a global society if we keep restraining ourselves like this concept of religion.
But then again, its also good to believe in something for the unknown. And religions do have good moral and ethical practices.
See the problem? We should all just abolish all religions, but keep the religion from the religion.
Or something like that.
By Trebold 2010-05-01 19:48:48
semimmortal said: Asura.Korpg said: semimmortal said: Actually, if you look deep into why they're doing so, is similar to how nuns cover up their body completely.
Modesty, faithfulness, etc.
This is pretty low to criticize on, and only makes us look bad to look down on them for that... Wait, are you saying that it was entirely their choice, every single one of them, to do that?
It wasn't a society thing? I thought Islam required their religion to be so integrated into their society that you have to eat, breath, and think Islam.
Also, I can bet you 100 bucks right now it was a guy who made all of the rules of Islam.... Well, there wasn't any specific rules in Islam. The book is basically a story of the Prophet Mohamed (spelling?) and all the way to his death.
BUT, using the book, they can take the advices from it and apply it to their daily lives.
The hijab thing was actually an enhancement thing compared to what was happening in that era. Striptease everywhere. Which was part of the rival religion at that time (idol faiths).
Yes, because Judaism is idol worship.
By semimmortal 2010-05-01 19:49:22
Asura.Korpg said: semimmortal said: Trebold said: semimmortal said: Trebold said: Surah 9:5
"When the sacred months are over slay the idolaters wherever you find them. Arrest them, besiege them, and lie in ambush everywhere for them. If they repent and take to prayer and render the alms levy, allow them to go their way. God is forgiving and merciful." Dude... you do know this applies only to their region in the past?
read moar
9:1 A declaration of immunity from God and His apostle to the idolaters with whom you have made agreements:
9:2 For four months you shall go unmolested in the land. But know that you shall not escape God’s judgement, and that God will humble the unbelievers.
9:3 A proclamation to the people from God and His apostle on the day of the greater pilgrimage:
God and His apostle are under no obligation to the idolaters. If you repent, it shall be well with you; but if you give no heed, know that you shall not be immune from God’s judgement.
Proclaim a woeful punishment to the unbelievers,
9:4 except to those idolaters who have honoured their treaties with you in every detail and aided none against you. With these keep faith, until their treaties have run their term. God loves the righteous.
9:5 When the sacred months are over slay the idolaters wherever you find them. Arrest them, besiege them, and lie in ambush everywhere for them. If they repent and take to prayer and render the alms levy, allow them to go their way. God is forgiving and merciful.
9:6 If an idolater seeks asylum with you, give him protection so that he may hear the Word of God, and then convey him to safety. For the idolaters are ignorant men.
9:7 God and His apostle repose no trust in idolaters, save those with whom you have made treaties at the Sacred Mosque. So long as they keep faith with you, keep faith with them. God loves the righteous.
9:8 How can you trust them? If they prevail against you they will respect neither agreements nor ties of kindred. They flatter you with their tongues, but their hearts reject you. Most of them are evil doers.
Yes, because this says: "oh, by the way, guys, only do this between the years 500 AD to 1500 AD, ok?" Only proved it more so lol.
Read before copy/paste, and learn wtf they're talking about.
Hint in case of retardism: Research the idols in that era and their believers. Hint for you: Is it still being practiced? Do you see them trying to kill other religions in their own country? Nope, they've got some kind of tax though... not sure if it is applied anymore.
Only people you see killing each other are the extremist taking the whole context wrong (like our friend here, Trebold).
By Trebold 2010-05-01 19:50:47
semimmortal said: Asura.Korpg said: semimmortal said: Trebold said: semimmortal said: Trebold said: Surah 9:5
"When the sacred months are over slay the idolaters wherever you find them. Arrest them, besiege them, and lie in ambush everywhere for them. If they repent and take to prayer and render the alms levy, allow them to go their way. God is forgiving and merciful." Dude... you do know this applies only to their region in the past?
read moar
9:1 A declaration of immunity from God and His apostle to the idolaters with whom you have made agreements:
9:2 For four months you shall go unmolested in the land. But know that you shall not escape God’s judgement, and that God will humble the unbelievers.
9:3 A proclamation to the people from God and His apostle on the day of the greater pilgrimage:
God and His apostle are under no obligation to the idolaters. If you repent, it shall be well with you; but if you give no heed, know that you shall not be immune from God’s judgement.
Proclaim a woeful punishment to the unbelievers,
9:4 except to those idolaters who have honoured their treaties with you in every detail and aided none against you. With these keep faith, until their treaties have run their term. God loves the righteous.
9:5 When the sacred months are over slay the idolaters wherever you find them. Arrest them, besiege them, and lie in ambush everywhere for them. If they repent and take to prayer and render the alms levy, allow them to go their way. God is forgiving and merciful.
9:6 If an idolater seeks asylum with you, give him protection so that he may hear the Word of God, and then convey him to safety. For the idolaters are ignorant men.
9:7 God and His apostle repose no trust in idolaters, save those with whom you have made treaties at the Sacred Mosque. So long as they keep faith with you, keep faith with them. God loves the righteous.
9:8 How can you trust them? If they prevail against you they will respect neither agreements nor ties of kindred. They flatter you with their tongues, but their hearts reject you. Most of them are evil doers.
Yes, because this says: "oh, by the way, guys, only do this between the years 500 AD to 1500 AD, ok?" Only proved it more so lol.
Read before copy/paste, and learn wtf they're talking about.
Hint in case of retardism: Research the idols in that era and their believers. Hint for you: Is it still being practiced? Do you see them trying to kill other religions in their own country? Nope, they've got some kind of tax though... not sure if it is applied anymore.
Only people you see killing each other are the extremist taking the whole context wrong (like our friend here, Trebold).
Context, huh? Would you rather me post the entire Qu'ran on here? It's funny because it'd still prove my point.
Phoenix.Darki
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By Phoenix.Darki 2010-05-01 19:51:42
semimmortal said: Phoenix.Darki said: Quetzalcoatl.Sectumsempra said: Shiva.Flionheart said: I don't even give my opinions on these matters, I'd be thrown out into the street and stoned most likely ;-; My views are borderline heretical, apparently.
Something to do with me not recognizing Israel as a country appears to piss people off.
Why isn't Israel a country again? It actually used to be philistine before they've been taken over and renamed israel, at least that was the story. Phoenix.Darki said: I got in Philosophy class an A ~.~ most of the things discussed here are pure retardness anyways. Might aswell fight retardness with more retardness.... Philosophy? You don't mean History?
Ah, can see why you say studying it makes you HELP I AM TRAPPED IN 2006 PLEASE SEND A TIME MACHINE already!
In philosophy they give you History aswell, specialy on the religions to understand the point of view of the philosophers, if you don't know where they are standing in life, you won't know why they thought those things. Philosophy isn't about sitting down and making up logic about the world, theres more things involved in it. Just informing you, since you seem ignorant to how classes in university work.
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By Ragnarok.Virusheartt 2010-05-01 19:52:02
it's not "running away" lol , it's just all ppl here are annoying and I dont have all day to keep relpying to them and they keep insulting my religon with screen shot, photo's or what ever
you have your own believes and I do , SO why everyone sticking thier noses in other ppl stuff?
my religon has been insulted in this forum and ppl were making fun of it and I knew that from the start so all what I was trying to do is closing it
I'm not running away I'm just being annoyed to talk with you guys and none of you had really good thing to say
about hijab and swiwmming dress or w/e u guys called it
isnt it better then wearing a bikini on the beach and you mom or sister get hit on by some guy who's trying to "sleep" with her?
want me to post porn , nude stuff from your country? and you're happy with that ? you never get jealuos ? or you dont care if ur sister have a boyfriend that is going to sleep with her tonight and at the end get's bregnant ( I know I missedspell it) and her boyfriend "run away"
I can talk alot about ur country and dont say it's "country" cus those are ppl and there is a % from them have religon .
you guys never talkd about that? you guys having fun of having sex with any girl that you just made relationship with her?
Guys: Fix urself then fix other's.
End.
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By Asura.Balufalu 2010-05-01 19:52:06
Trebold said: Asura.Balufalu said: semimmortal said: Actually, if you look deep into why they're doing so, is similar to how nuns cover up their body completely.
Modesty, faithfulness, etc.
This is pretty low to criticize on, and only makes us look bad to look down on them for that...
Amen to this, isn't the whole point of them covering their bodies supposed to be because Their body is for their husband's eyes only?
Are the other three wives of the husband allowed to see each other without being fully clothed? I can't answer that :( and I wouldn't want to hazard a guess either incase I was wrong
Phoenix.Darki
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By Phoenix.Darki 2010-05-01 19:54:05
Asura.Korpg said: Phoenix.Darki said: Like the rest of rules in all humankind society really... Christianity isnt far from that, if you realize, God's heir is a male, the one who runs a church is supposed to be a male...
I think women deserve more respect than what we get though, cuz well we bear children .-. All religions (well, all practiced religions, you can't count some religions in Japan though) are like that.
See, we can't advance as a global society if we keep restraining ourselves like this concept of religion.
But then again, its also good to believe in something for the unknown. And religions do have good moral and ethical practices.
See the problem? We should all just abolish all religions, but keep the religion from the religion.
Or something like that.
Religions are only a mixture of different belief's and cultures brought together by different groups. Thats why we get so many of them, because they try to always make up a new one that is better, but they always have pros and cons, so in reality it's a creation of the man.
Like I heard in philosophy class
'are humans the creation of god, or is god the creation of humans?'
By semimmortal 2010-05-01 19:54:09
Trebold said: Yes, because Judaism is idol worship. Well, if you read the history well, they were also attacked by other religions. I've specifically started with idolators since it was what gave birth to Islam and their progress over other religions in that time/area.
Islam started out small. The book was merely to guide them to adapting to their harsh environment. If it was to just say, "Sit there and turn the other cheek", they're gonna get raped by other religions.
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By Shiva.Flionheart 2010-05-01 19:54:24
Ragnarok.Virusheartt said: it's not "running away" lol , it's just all ppl here are annoying and I dont have all day to keep relpying to them and they keep insulting my religon with screen shot, photo's or what ever
you have your own believes and I do , SO why everyone sticking thier noses in other ppl stuff?
my religon has been insulted in this forum and ppl were making fun of it and I knew that from the start so all what I was trying to do is closing it
I'm not running away I'm just being annoyed to talk with you guys and none of you had really good thing to say
about hijab and swiwmming dress or w/e u guys called it
isnt it better then wearing a bikini on the beach and you mom or sister get hit on by some guy who's trying to "sleep" with her?
want me to post porn , nude stuff from your country? and you're happy with that ? you never get jealuos ? or you dont care if ur sister have a boyfriend that is going to sleep with her tonight and at the end get's bregnant ( I know I missedspell it) and her boyfriend "run away"
I can talk alot about ur country and dont say it's "country" cus those are ppl and there is a % from them have religon .
you guys never talkd about that? you guys having fun of having sex with any girl that you just made relationship with her?
Guys: Fix urself then fix other's.
End. I think the point of it is, Women should have their own choices, and men don't own them.
The *** gives you the right to disallow them to do anything? To do that proves you think of them as a lesser being to yourself.
Phoenix.Darki
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By Phoenix.Darki 2010-05-01 19:55:26
Phoenix.Darki said: semimmortal said: Phoenix.Darki said: Quetzalcoatl.Sectumsempra said: Shiva.Flionheart said: I don't even give my opinions on these matters, I'd be thrown out into the street and stoned most likely ;-; My views are borderline heretical, apparently.
Something to do with me not recognizing Israel as a country appears to piss people off.
Why isn't Israel a country again? It actually used to be philistine before they've been taken over and renamed israel, at least that was the story. Phoenix.Darki said: I got in Philosophy class an A ~.~ most of the things discussed here are pure retardness anyways. Might aswell fight retardness with more retardness.... Philosophy? You don't mean History?
Ah, can see why you say studying it makes you HELP I AM TRAPPED IN 2006 PLEASE SEND A TIME MACHINE already!
In philosophy they give you History aswell, specialy on the religions to understand the point of view of the philosophers, if you don't know where they are standing in life, you won't know why they thought those things. Philosophy isn't about sitting down and making up logic about the world, theres more things involved in it. Just informing you, since you seem ignorant to how classes in university work.
and btw, why do you have to be so hostile about it? I'm completly calm trying to give out a point. I never attacked you.
By semimmortal 2010-05-01 19:57:26
Phoenix.Darki said: I got in Philosophy class an A ~.~ most of the things discussed here are pure retardness anyways. Might aswell fight retardness with more retardness.... Phoenix.Darki said: and btw, why do you have to be so hostile about it? I'm completly calm trying to give out a point. I never attacked you. :/
By Trebold 2010-05-01 19:57:35
semimmortal said: Trebold said: Yes, because Judaism is idol worship. Well, if you read the history well, they were also attacked by other religions. I've specifically started with idolators since it was what gave birth to Islam and their progress over other religions in that time/area.
Islam started out small. The book was merely to guide them to adapting to their harsh environment. If it was to just say, "Sit there and turn the other cheek", they're gonna get raped by other religions.
Yeah, therefore you must stomp out the other religions, to prove that your religion is #1. Would hate to "do the right thing" as it would lead them to get raped by other religions.
Phoenix.Darki
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By Phoenix.Darki 2010-05-01 19:59:34
Virusheartt:
Getting pregnant from any douche that leaves you can happen anywhere anytime to anyone... Weather you cover yourself up with a billion rags or hang around naked, you run the same luck, by either getting raped or being fooled.
Caitsith.Silvaria
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Posts: 269
By Caitsith.Silvaria 2010-05-01 20:01:12
With regard to the title of the thread...it isn't even grammatically correct. One cannot "angry" a religion, since a religion is not an entity with emotions.
As for the topic...have you ever tried criticizing Christianity in front of a Christian? Talk about "angrying" them, LOL...hell, I've tried just asking simple questions about Christianity, and was immediately accused of being hostile. Questions and critical comments are a big no-no in most religions, not just Islam.
By semimmortal 2010-05-01 20:01:18
Trebold said: semimmortal said: Trebold said: Yes, because Judaism is idol worship. Well, if you read the history well, they were also attacked by other religions. I've specifically started with idolators since it was what gave birth to Islam and their progress over other religions in that time/area.
Islam started out small. The book was merely to guide them to adapting to their harsh environment. If it was to just say, "Sit there and turn the other cheek", they're gonna get raped by other religions.
Yeah, therefore you must stomp out the other religions, to prove that your religion is #1. Would hate to "do the right thing" as it would lead them to get raped by other religions. Well, if you've studied further, it shows that they were really getting raped before that page was made and allowed them to retaliate.
Again, this shows that why criticism in the modern age sucks. Used to be intelligent a long time ago... I miss those times...
Phoenix.Darki
Server: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9949
By Phoenix.Darki 2010-05-01 20:01:28
semimmortal said: Phoenix.Darki said: I got in Philosophy class an A ~.~ most of the things discussed here are pure retardness anyways. Might aswell fight retardness with more retardness.... Phoenix.Darki said: and btw, why do you have to be so hostile about it? I'm completly calm trying to give out a point. I never attacked you. :/
why do you even take that as a personal attack to you? I was trying to point out people don't understand most of the things they're saying, so they're debating over something that isn't even true. Comming from someone that actually went up to university and paid 500USD for a class to hear all this *** from a professional, and come to a forum and hear people say things that are nonsence.
I think I figured out how it is possible that the large majority of people from the Muslim world would be so profoundly offended when their Prophet is criticized or made fun of. I mean, to them, it could very well look obvious, yet it seems they do not really understand why either. A lot of them just accept that someone would be killed for depicting the prophet Mohamed, even though we ask them why, in a way that we feel cannot be argued with. How is it possible that someone would be hated for openly making fun of something as mundane as religion, we ask? I think I can reasonably explain why they would accept the idea, believe it or not. I want to know what is to be done if we're going to help these people stop feeling so persecuted and if we’re going to finally gain the right to criticize Islam, as it should be, without threatening the people in it. The answer, I think, lies in our perceptions of what religion is versus where it should stand in relations to ethnicity. Help me out.
First, it is difficult to argue against the idea that Islam, to this day, is majorly against the advancement of secular culture. It is associated so directly to what I would refer, for lack of a better word, Arabian culture, that criticizing a religion tied so closely with it, appears (at least from my personal experience) to insult them, as people. Another factor to consider is how Muslims, despite their divisions, have the strength in numbers to lead us into being cautious about criticizing Islamic beliefs, even if it shouldn’t be so. Any critic, whether it is well intentioned or backed with incredibly solid and logical arguments, seems to backfire when it is targeted at Islam. More than often, it seems to be giving more reasons to feel justified, leading Islamic countries to cocoon themselves from modern secular culture. Unlike other ethnicities that are also extremely tied to their religion; the Jews, for example, the fact that they’re over a billion, somewhat gives them the mental ability to feel universally justified. It’s as if any strong criticism of Islam was a threat to their identity, integrity and intelligence, even when it’s not...
In a secular view, insulting religion doesn't necessarily equate to racial discrimination, and the fact that our western culture systematically ignores this, is the key point that prevents the western world from understanding why Muslims would be so offended. I have come to realize that a lot of Muslims try to say it, but it seems they do not understand what I am writing here, at least not enough to put it into the proper words that would make us understand. My goal is to help us both come to understand, through careful yet fortunate observations which I feel have led me to grasp some of this intricate psychology.
Let’s think for a second about this analogy: Let’s compare some white guy shouting racist comments towards blacks to your average non-Christian openly criticizing Christianity. Which is the worst, in the eyes of the average American, or European? Racism, isn’t it? Racism is undoubtedly the worst of those two things, at least according to our modern secular values. This is not to say that racism has been eradicated from the Western world, far from it. But even for the most racist among us in North America, it is extremely discouraged to make a racist statement publicly. It is not viewed as acceptable at all.
Have you ever seen a single Arabic person and expect him not to be a Muslim? It's as if their religion has so much grasp that it's nearly impossible for an Arabic person to not be a Muslim. But why doesn’t anyone seem to question this fact? Isn’t it fishy, considering that religion should be a choice? In fact, Muslims, in Muslim countries, are taught, from childhood, that the punishment for apostasy is death. The indoctrination is done to them so early in their life, and in such a strong and unquestionable way, that it achieves terrific results; it is almost irreversible. To them this is a good thing; to us, it’s just wrong.
In my opinion, the fact that Islam, as a religion, has been able to keep such a strong grasp, to this day, on the lives of the almost entirety of Arabic cultures is leading the Islamic world to a dangerous path. We all know that not only religion can be used to control masses, ii can also be a dangerous weapon. In America, some will argue, television is used for mass propaganda and it is difficult for the majority to avoid being brainwashed by many ideas that they would otherwise have never acquired as individuals. However, an average occidental still gets to make SOME choices about what morality should be; they chose whether they’ll be for or against abortion, whether they’ll be against slavery or not, whether they’ll vote for a black man or not.
It is possible to speak with a Muslim about what we dislike in Islam, without him getting angry. I have experienced it myself. It is difficult, however. Even as I was able to converse, I would feel the incredible pain that questioning one’s own identity can inflict on an indoctrinated individual. As we cannot tolerate being racially discriminated, they cannot tolerate negative criticism of Islam; they view is as their culture.
It may be sad to say, for most of us who wish for world peace, but secularism is not going to happen anytime soon in the Arab world. It could never be forced on Muslims. It is completely against their conception of what a religion should be and what place it should have in their life. Through what I have just explained, we can even understand the bottomless frustration of Muslims against non-Muslims when faced with debates like whether or not we should be banning the Burka in public spaces. The same issue arises: to us, it’s common sense and required for secularism, to them it’s a slap in the face, not as a Muslim but as an Arab. To us, it's freedom of speech; to them, it's against it. It is an insult to their culture, just as we would react to someone trying to deny our right to have a cultural background, just as we would react to a Muslim telling a White woman that wearing g-strings is degrading and wrong.
How can we possibly achieve a secular society, with Muslims living in it, if we do not agree on whether it’s okay to force someone to act secularly? Aren’t we stuck with the problem of having many kids arguing about who gets to play with the ball, while one of the kids sits on the ball, arguing that it should not be played with in the first place? How flexible can secularism be, without ending up betraying itself?
Can we find a temporary solution? I would like your opinion.
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