Why Is It So Difficult To Criticize Islam Without Angrying It Deeply?

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Why is it so difficult to criticize Islam without angrying it deeply?
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 Phoenix.Darki
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By Phoenix.Darki 2010-05-03 23:42:46
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Ramuh.Thunderz said:
Phoenix.Darki said:
semimmortal said:
@Darki: sorry, quotes are randomly failing. But that was meant for Psyence. What I was trying to say (by making a silly example in my post) is generalizing people is not the way to go.


wurd.
I'm atheist and i dont look down on others beliefs, but i do look down on those that try to impose them and make up arguments with me as if trying to proove my own wrong. anyways a good religious mature debate is always nice, as long as both parties respect.


if both parties leave the debate having learned something new then everyone wins

except the HELP I AM TRAPPED IN 2006 PLEASE SEND A TIME MACHINE people...damn HELP I AM TRAPPED IN 2006 PLEASE SEND A TIME MACHINE people

:P

you dont always have to leave with learning something for win, you can always feel accomplished you just talked taboo and no one got hurt o.o
and also it's also nice to understand why a person thinks so different from you yet with as much passion.

thats why this atheist is always open for new ideas, but im not ever going to change my way of thinking, i think ive made my peace with atheism. Easier to follo anyways.
 Seraph.Rafik
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By Seraph.Rafik 2010-05-03 23:43:22
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People interpret the Holly Texts differently. Some will quote things for their purposed and take them out of context. They will also use those quotes to justify their actions. The also say things like. It is written in (insert Holly Text) then it must be true etc...
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By semimmortal 2010-05-03 23:44:10
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Unrelated, but speaking of music I friggin love the chocobo theme in FFXIII! (just started recently playing it)
Wish I could get a DAT for it in FFXI :(



Vocals at the last half caught me off guard, actually sat in the menu listening to it all lol
 Ramuh.Bekisa
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By Ramuh.Bekisa 2010-05-04 00:01:22
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these types of threads should be cause for automatic ban from forums. They never go anywhere and only make people cry/whine/*** at each other ...

you aren't going to get anywhere with any religion, political or race conversation no matter how true you addition may be! You will always be an atheist, racist, anarchist when you do so to someone.


 Ragnarok.Psyence
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By Ragnarok.Psyence 2010-05-04 00:03:15
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semmimortal said:

Anyways. Why I'm pretty upset with your posts is that you're actually generalizing a specific group of people. 90%? lololol
yeah, assuming you've met 90 muslims out of a 100 and discussed with them...

Which brings up a question... Why would you want to criticize others based on their beliefs? Do you need to go after the JPs next for bowing? Do you need to go after Rap music next because it's not music according to most people?

Percentage is what I was taught in school. You want me to say 9 out of 10? I'm just saying in my experience, speaking with Muslims about their religions doesn't lead to very constructive discussion and I'm sure there's a way to change that. I can easily tolerate hearing a believer criticize atheism because I know what to answer him.

If I had said : "90% of Muslims in the world are pissed." then you could say I'm talking nonsense because I've met a few dozens. I talk about my experiences and what I see around me... I eat Laham Bajiine in some Lebanese stores (their Halal meat is clean which is nice to know) and have friends from so many cultures. I just don't get why a religion should be given a special status. It claims I'm an infidel and sinner and I'm not allowed to openly call it nonsense?

Since you're asking me a question... Let me try to answer it... and I have to sleep then :/

I do not criticize others for their beliefs. I criticize beliefs. But that's another thread. Critics are important for anything to develop. The ability to react positively to criticism is sign of a healthy mind and it shows confidence. The right to criticize is also very important. It was not always a given, and people died to gain this right over religion. This right is absent from many Muslim countries, but things will evolve.

Rap music is all about criticizing... It's actually the art of criticizing, to be heard, to scream out loud about injustice, in France is is used as a mean of expression by the Algerians and other minorities living a tough life in the suburbs and facing racial discrimination. If you had good reasons to criticize rap, you would be entitled to. Also, they wouldn't kill you in the name of Rap. Fun fact : RAP stands for Rythm & Poetry.

Japanese people bow out of respect yet they don't ask women to bow in a different way. However, just like in some religions, Japanese have a very archaic way of treating women. They're slowly evolving but it's gonna take a while. Just because we're criticizing religion doesn't mean it's the only thing needing critics.
 Phoenix.Darki
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By Phoenix.Darki 2010-05-04 00:04:05
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Ramuh.Bekisa said:
these types of threads should be cause for automatic ban from forums. They never go anywhere and only make people cry/whine/*** at each other ...

you aren't going to get anywhere with any religion, political or race conversation no matter how true you addition may be! You will always be an atheist, racist, anarchist when you do so to someone.


Forum » Everything Else » Politics and Religion »
then they should erradicate this section overall.
 Caitsith.Silvaria
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By Caitsith.Silvaria 2010-05-04 00:07:27
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Ramuh.Bekisa said:
these types of threads should be cause for automatic ban from forums.

You do realize this forum is for politics and religion, correct?

So...why on earth would the moderators ban a thread on the very topic for which the forum was created? Because -you- don't like the subject? Then don't post. It's really just that easy.

I know this from personal experience...I simply don't post on threads where I don't care for the topic. 8)
 Phoenix.Darki
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By Phoenix.Darki 2010-05-04 00:12:38
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Caitsith.Silvaria said:
Ramuh.Bekisa said:
these types of threads should be cause for automatic ban from forums.

You do realize this forum is for politics and religion, correct?

So...why on earth would the moderators ban a thread on the very topic for which the forum was created? Because -you- don't like the subject? Then don't post. It's really just that easy.

I know this from personal experience...I simply don't post on threads where I don't care for the topic. 8)


dont worry i already owned him on my previous post.
 Sylph.Pwrlessgirl
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By Sylph.Pwrlessgirl 2010-05-04 00:17:47
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Garuda.Mabrook said:
We can agree that a mother and father is better than a single parent right? Muslims have the lowest divorce rate in any other group of people. I'd say most is better than all men.

I can add that in muslim religion in a marriage the man is the leader responsible for maintaining the wife, and the wife is supposed to obey her man; I think in part that is reason why divorce rates are lower. There might be some men out there who abuse that power (no different than in Western countries) only difference that in USA for example.. divorce is about 50% and in muslim countries (may)(bee) around 30-40%... due to that 10-20% of muslim women who fear their abusive husband, and fear the most the finger of shame pointed at them from the whole family, and the laws make it very difficult as well.
 Ragnarok.Psyence
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By Ragnarok.Psyence 2010-05-04 00:18:34
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Phoenix.Bekisa said:
these types of threads should be cause for automatic ban from forums.
If freedom of speech is to survive these next decades, we'll need less people like you holding positions of power.
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 Seraph.Rafik
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By Seraph.Rafik 2010-05-04 00:26:33
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If you have more than one wife, you have to please all of them equally. Can not be showing favoritism towards one wife.
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By Trebold 2010-05-04 00:29:44
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Who says you even have to have a spouse? Just be asexual.
 
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 Seraph.Rafik
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By Seraph.Rafik 2010-05-04 00:32:42
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I would not want to be around 13women that are PMSing... at the same time

Just asking for trouble
 
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 Phoenix.Darki
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By Phoenix.Darki 2010-05-04 00:37:39
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unless he was abusive and controlling...well we dont know that, we cant generalize people.
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By Phoenix.Darki 2010-05-04 00:39:12
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Ragnarok.Psyence said:
Phoenix.Bekisa said:
these types of threads should be cause for automatic ban from forums.
If freedom of speech is to survive these next decades, we'll need less people like you holding positions of power.
owned.
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By Trebold 2010-05-04 00:50:32
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@4:00 This is kinda what the initial post was talking about. They take discrimination against their religion as if it was like people in America talking about race.
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By Trebold 2010-05-04 00:55:20
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Garuda.Mabrook said:
Every culture has it's bads and goods.

That can be said to any religion and person individually but it's the good things matter not the bad to yourself.

I mean tbh I really can't accept the idea of killing someone or myself to gain my point on anything...

I mean for real... why????? O_o;;

Except of course that person directs his anger on me. Then it'll be like but what did I do? lol

I feel like you're a morally sound person, and I respect you for that. I just hope that when you teach your children about the Qu'ran, they don't see the things that some see in it. I hope they see the positive things that you've obviously practiced putting into your own life.
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By Unicorn.Moldtech 2010-05-04 00:59:38
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Garuda.Mabrook said:
Marriage is 50% of your heaven to God.

I mean like get married and maintain a good house hold, then be like 5% extra good and you can enter Heaven.

It can't get easier than that!

So single people are going to hell then? lol w/e Sucks to be the Pope
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By Phoenix.Darki 2010-05-04 01:34:54
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owned
 
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 Shiva.Flionheart
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By Shiva.Flionheart 2010-05-04 01:43:20
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Religion forces people to use ideals they normally wouldn't to have a chance at getting into a higher plane of existence.

A genuinely good person wouldn't need heaven/hell to be a bargaining chip.
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By Cerberus.Katarzyna 2010-05-04 06:34:19
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Phoenix.Darki said:
wurd.
I'm atheist and i dont look down on others beliefs, but i do look down on those that try to impose them and make up arguments with me as if trying to proove my own wrong. anyways a good religious mature debate is always nice, as long as both parties respect.

I missed the part where someone is forcing you to become Muslim, because you sure are doing a lot of mud flinging towards a religion you're not even a part of. But since atheism is "easier to follow anyways," I wouldn't expect a mature decision on religion to come from you anyway.

PS: "pwned"

Quote:
I just don't get why a religion should be given a special status.

I don't get why you think you're so special because you're an atheist.

The world may never know....



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By Shiiroh 2010-05-04 06:40:53
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18 pages? seriously?
People can't stfu already?
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By Keiya 2010-05-04 06:43:07
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Trebold said:
semimmortal said:
Keiya said:
Notice they write the head part agreed by all scholars but the face part by many not all

To make showing face absolute forbidden ALL scholars have to agree otherwise it remains optional for woman to cover or not

And that's why many Islamic countries don't have veils a must
Trebold said:
Wearing veils, on the other hand, is something that is forced, and is not done out of humility. It's one-sided as well, "only women have to cover up". Are you really comparing these things to each other?
I'm confused now... So it's a must? Or is it optional?
Also, I've explained why they don the thing. A few pages back.
Which is the main reason why I'm regretting to post back here ><

Many: "not all". Implicitly stating, there are those which do force veils. lol, I can only imagine the kind of person you are in real life.. I'm guessing the kid who sits in class constantly trying to find ways to correct the professor. And everyone else just sighs aloud when they see you raise your hand.

There will always be a forcing veils as long as a lot of scholars see it as a must, by veils I mean the face veils not hijab the head one , the head veils are must 100%.

In my country most women who do put face veils they put it after getting married , it started to become more than cultural matter than religion. But if you look to Saudi arabia for example most women if not all puts face veils.

Anyway married men tend to tell or force their wives to wear Niqab (the one that shows two eyes only) Since they don't want anyone to see their faces.

 Ragnarok.Vitaru
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By Ragnarok.Vitaru 2010-05-04 08:16:58
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Ragnarok.Psyence said:
Whole WoT

None of the things you mentioned in that wall is actually correct.

1- Majority of Muslims are not Arabs.

2- Islam teaches us to respect other religions.

3- It is not in Islam to kill anyone who bad mouth Islam or Mohammed. In fact, it is mentioned in the Quran to not even bad-mouth anyone who talks about islam.

I can go on and on but, to answer your questions "How can we possibly achieve a secular society, with Muslims living in it, if we do not agree on whether it’s okay to force someone to act secularly? Aren’t we stuck with the problem of having many kids arguing about who gets to play with the ball, while one of the kids sits on the ball, arguing that it should not be played with in the first place? How flexible can secularism be, without ending up betraying itself?"

I don't blame you or any other Islam-hater, The image of Islam is being misrepresented because of the media world-wide. But a good start is to actually read about Islam and not base your argument on a southpark episode. After you do that, I'll be more than happy to get in a debate with you.
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