Justice Torque Vs. Snow Gorget

So im just curious. I just recently got my snow gorget, and i have seen a signifigant difference in my gekko dmg.. But i want to know what would be better for ws's. Snow gorget or justice torque. So, anyone that has both and has tested please post test results or opinions. Thanks! :)

Snow Gorget.

Justice for TP, Snow for WS. But I don't have results but I'm 100% sure.

Tachi: Gekko
From FFXIclopedia, the free Final Fantasy XI encyclopedia

* Modifiers: STR:75%

* Damage Multipliers by TP:

100%TP 200%TP 300%TP
1.5625 1.875 2.50


Justice Torque 5 STR (7 attack 6.3 acc fairly negligible)

Snow Gorget Increases fTP multiplier by +0.1 and adds some amount of accuracy to all hits of the Weapon Skill.

Calculating Justices increase to WS damage +5 STR will give you 1-2 fSTR. 1 fSTR 75% of the time 2 fSTR 25% of the time.

Assumming Hagun 75 damge weapon which is rank 8 max fSTR of 16 (8 +8).
When STR-VIT value is high, fSTR can be approximated by ((your STR - monster VIT)+4)/4
so lets say you got 43 more str than your target your fSTR would be 11. (43 + 4 = 47/4 = 11.75)

Making haguns base damage 75+ 11= 86.

Add in the 5 STR from Justice it will become 75+13 = 88.
88/86 = +2.32% increase from fSTR best case secanrio, but only 1.16% increase when you get 1 fSTR from the Torque.

{2.32% x .25%} + {1.16% x .75%} =
.58% + .87% = 1.45% increase on average from fSTR

Now Calculate the WSC 75% STR for simplicity lets say 100 STR.

100 x 75% = 75

Add the 5 STR

105 x 75% = 78.75

78.75/75 = 5% increase.

5% + 1.45% = 6.45% increase from Justice Torque on average.

5% + 1.16% = 6.16% increase from Justice Torque when getting 1 fSTR.

5% + 2.32% = 7.32% increase from justice when getting 2 fSTR in best case scenario.

vs Snow Gorget

using gekko with hagun at 100% tp gves you an fTP of 1.875 + .1 from the gorget.

1.975 + 1.875 = 5.33% increase.


Conclusion given the str and fSTR values I plugged in assumming Hagun gekko at 100% tp Justice will always win. And if you happen to be getting 2 fSTR from the Justice the Snow Gorget gets stomped.

I feel like my math must be wrong somewhere but if it is I donno where I went wrong.

Feel free to fix my math and make me look like an idiot I hope I am wrong because if im not im gonna want justice that much worse. (my linkshell is 2/40 on JoJ)

Now Calculate the WSC 75% STR for simplicity lets say 100 STR.

100 x 75% = 75

Add the 5 STR

105 x 75% = 78.75

78.75/75 = 5% increase.

forgetting alpha (.83 end multiplier for WSC)

A good attempt, conclusion is wrong though. I'll bold and point out where you went wrong - not in a condescending way (at least I hope not) but just so you can improve.

During WS, there will be the WSC portion to add as well. So in reality, you're looking at 2/~150, not 2/86. Significantly smaller, your arithmetic is correct though. Those would be the fSTR returns from TPing though :p

There is an "alpha" level correction mod on weaponskills, which is multiplied after where I first bolded. It is 0.83 at level 75.

In the second case, you have to consider the entire base damage as a whole again (which means /(D + fSTR + WSC), not just /(WSC)). You've calculated the percentage increase in WSC there, not the percentage increase in base damage as a whole!

Almost. Should multiply them together really, so 1.05 x 1.0145 there. The difference between addition and multiplication will be small but this is just in case you wanted to be 100% perfect.

Your assessment of Snow Gorget was done correctly (0.1/1.875).

Correcting for Justice Torque, 1.25 average fSTR is 1.25/150 = 0.833% WS damage increase and 3~ WSC is 3/150 = 2% WS damage increase. Total is therefore about 2.85%~ damage increase compared to 5.33% from Gorget.

Snow Gorget will always win (it will be a ~4% damage increase at 300% TP).

so 100 x .83 x .75 = 62.25
105 x .83 x .75 = 65.36

65.36/62.25 = 4.99%?

If thats right its still nearly the same result ><.

nah its all good i was hoping you and veggeto would respond, you two are the reason I am starting to understand the mechanics better and the main ones im learning from.

It's this again :P that is the increase in WSC, but WSC is added to "D" and "fSTR" in the end, so the increase is ~3/150 or so (150 being my estimate for a "base" D + fSTR + WSC on Gekko).

Snow Gorget's % increase is in terms of a total damage increase, your % increase there is in terms of a WSC damage increase, which is only one of 3 components of base damage.

Do you see what I mean? :x

Oh, and it doesn't matter here because we're dealing with an approximate and a theoretical WSC, but normally you have to floor after each final multiplication in WSC, so:

90 STR * 0.75 = 67.5 ... you have to floor here, so = 67. 67 * 0.83 = 55.61... have to floor again, so = 55. Floor just means "chop off decimals, do no rounding".

It doesn't matter since we're using theoretical digits, but if you had actual stats to work with (eg, would 3DEX or 5CHR do more damage on Dancing Edge, my stats are DEX110 CHR50 for instance), you would have to do that.

Don't let that confuse you here though <_<

HAH, you guys complicated this waay wayyy to much.

Justice torque = 13

Snow Gorget = 10

-Given that all Samurai Weapon skills are based around the scoring system of golf, where the lower amount of strokes (in this case Stroke= letters in the item name) signifies the winner. Snow Gorget Clearly wins out. The only thing better for WS's for the neck piece is actually a 3 way tie between

Gorget
Nodowa
Torque

All of which equal 6 letters.

To use a rather lame analogy, say I had a collection of apples, oranges, and pears.

If I had 10 apples, 10 oranges and 10 pears, I would have 30 fruit. If I add 3 apples, I have 30% more apples, but only 10% more fruit!

Now replace apples, oranges and pears with your D, fSTR and WSC and fruit as a whole with your base damage :p

Snow Gorget's returns there are calculated out of "fruit", not "apples"!

3WSC from 5 x .83 x .75 right?

And one more thing im comfused thought you just said you have to multiple not add to get the correct outcome .833 x 2 = 1.666 %?

Yeah, 3~ from that (it's a rough approximate, I could be more precise).

Remember the 2% there is not 2.00 - it's 0.02. 2% is 2 out of 100, not 2 out of 1 (which would be 200 out of 100).

It's 1.00833 x 1.02 ~

My head hurts ; ;

oh thought you could drop the ones and move the decimal over and get the same answer guess not! Thanks and sorry to derail your thread slightly op with my math lesson but i guess you got your answer lol!

Well you have amnesia, that's not surprising!

So, in summary:

Is Snow Gorget better than Justice Torque for WS? (where it applies, of course).

Yes.

Tiger woods is, unfortunatley, related to the thread topic at this point. Just sayin

Alright, TYVM guys. I do still have one question that I'm not clear about though.. That's a lot of text and it seems you were comparing the two neck pieces at 300% TP? What about at 100%? I'm still unclear about that.. Smack me around a little if it's up there and I missed it. >_>

It was up there, though sorta in the mix. Regardless, Snow's benefit decreases as fTP increases (fTP increases with TP for YGK, so 300 TP is the highest fTP. Non-damage varies WS have static fTP). So if it wins at 300 TP it definitely wins at 100 TP.

Word.. Thanks a lot. I appreciate it.