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How much would we really know about FFXI...
 Cerberus.Sifridus
Server: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 179
By Cerberus.Sifridus 2009-12-26 10:51:28
Asura.Korpg said: Answer to the main question:
Until Absolute Virtue can be killed by a shout group in whitegate, we don't know a hell of a lot about this game.
This
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Server: Valefor
Game: FFXI
Posts: 340
By Valefor.Sketchkat 2009-12-26 11:00:16
I've played FFXI off and on since the PS2 launch in 04, and I switched to the 360 version when ToAU came out. I have the game on pc as well, but I don't play it on that platform as much because I like to sit back on the couch when I play. Point is, I've never used Windower or any other 3rd party stuff.
I don't really think it's "cheating" per se, I just think it kinda sucks the fun out of it to a degree. For example, it puts players from one platform on a different playing field than the others, which can be a bit unfair.
But the major thing for me is that it makes me miss the PS2 Everquest, cause when people planned strategies for big fights in that, it felt more like they *were* warriors or shadowknights or clerics staring down a dragon, and not some guy picking apart math equations from the other side of a monitor...I don't recall Aragorn pulling out a pocket calculator and checking the agro distance of the cave troll in Moria, or parsing his damage against Boromir's, lol. :p
I guess it sounds a bit silly, but I like that sense of adventure. Too bad PC mmo's always get picked apart like that. Now, let the flood of rate downs begin..
Seraph.Aena
Server: Seraph
Game: FFXI
Posts: 221
By Seraph.Aena 2009-12-26 11:03:11
I thought we were just now only talking about how Windower was/wasn't necessary to acquire half(? half our abilities' worth?) our information about FFXI, though. I'm totally for it if it means some other people won't play horribly but would have otherwise - I'm just not using it myself.
I'd presume most of Wiki's information would have been figured out all the same even if a little more slowly/more descriptive vs. quantitative, possibly requiring a little more discussion and verification. The foot/fraction of a foot measurements are still useless to non-Windower users and thus unnecessary to math out (without it) for use.
I guess I just don't feel as pessimistic about players being hopeless without Windower or other third party apps. I'm not about to give myself credit over any other standard player in being able to learn things from experience and sharing info with companions.
I'm also not RMT-hunting or stalking anyone, so my own use of this site is roughly the same as dualing an alt in Jeuno to look up items as I want (just sans account reactivation, the witty comments on some items, or the forum community and MS Paint challenge especially).
Diabolos.Sovereign
Server: Diabolos
Game: FFXI
Posts: 550
By Diabolos.Sovereign 2009-12-26 11:23:56
Asura.Korpg said: Answer to the main question:
Until Absolute Virtue can be killed by a shout group in whitegate, we don't know a hell of a lot about this game.
Absolute Virtue is the best example of this situation... being that absolutely nothing concerning his mechanics was proven without the use of third party software. FFXI-APP's OnEvent proved that locking AV's 2-hours was possible, though it has yet to be effectively accomplished by any player without using OnEvent.
Later testing showed that it was possible without the use of OnEvent, though only through a "brute force and luck" theory of using mules to spam two-hour abilities as AV uses them in hopes that one of the player two-hours is a matching one to AV and will successfully lock it. This type of strategy requires a rediculous amount of players (or mules) which is simply not within the realm of possibility for most groups. It also heavily relies on luck, which is a factor most groups try to reduce in order to consistently reproduce success.
Another major example of this topic includes a process commonly called .dat mining. Every update tons of players examine files in the new content to see all the new items, synthesis recipes, quests and such. This is blatantly against the FFXI Terms of Service, as it constitutes reverse engineering. Because of .dat mining, everything about a new update is known in a matter of hours or days. Nearly every player benefits from this work, as all of this content gets loaded up on popular forums, message boards, and wikis and is then spread throughout the general community. This is a prime example of common players benefiting from Terms of Service breach.
Asura.Hit
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 765
By Asura.Hit 2009-12-26 11:31:24
Izey said: SE just likes to over complicate things, and not give us the simple tools/ basic tools that any MMO would have.
(Hey hey look, our game is mysterious, try doing this quest)
NPC: "I wan't something"
You: What?
NPC: "From somewhere"
You: Wtf you talking about?
NPC: "I'll be waiting."
YOU: WTF?!
This is truth.. Squenix seems to like to keep us barefoot and pregnant in the kitchen sometimes. It's strange.
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Midgardsormr.Sectumsempra
Server: Midgardsormr
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3723
By Midgardsormr.Sectumsempra 2009-12-26 11:33:50
Without 3rd party apps, this website would not exist. At all.
I think it's a damn good thing we had those apps, then. Not only is the functionality of this website worth it, but the better userbase here makes it one of the best websites I've ever encountered.
Asura.Hit
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 765
By Asura.Hit 2009-12-26 11:40:51
Midgardsormr.Sectumsempra said: Without 3rd party apps, this website would not exist. At all.
I think it's a damn good thing we had those apps, then. Not only is the functionality of this website worth it, but the better userbase here makes it one of the best websites I've ever encountered.
I agree but then, that's when personal responsibility comes into play. There is a difference between malicious and generally harmless 3rd party tools. This site being helpful and generally harmless to the working of the game vs. somebody who uses plug ins to automate/bot with characters.
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Diabolos.Sovereign
Server: Diabolos
Game: FFXI
Posts: 550
By Diabolos.Sovereign 2009-12-26 11:45:14
Asura.Hit said: I agree but then, that's when personal responsibility comes into play. There is a difference between malicious and generally harmless 3rd party tools. This site being helpful and generally harmless to the working of the game vs. somebody who uses plug ins to automate/bot with characters.
Avoid the morality of the subject. A third party tool is a third party tool, no matter it's end result.
Seraph.Aena
Server: Seraph
Game: FFXI
Posts: 221
By Seraph.Aena 2009-12-26 11:46:21
Well, it does give crafters more of that crafting-profit issue to complain about, I suppose.
Asura.Korpg
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 7782
By Asura.Korpg 2009-12-26 11:50:41
Diabolos.Sovereign said: Asura.Hit said: I agree but then, that's when personal responsibility comes into play. There is a difference between malicious and generally harmless 3rd party tools. This site being helpful and generally harmless to the working of the game vs. somebody who uses plug ins to automate/bot with characters. Avoid the morality of the subject. A third party tool is a third party tool, no matter it's end result. Yet you are here.
Aren't you being a hypocrite?
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Midgardsormr.Sectumsempra
Server: Midgardsormr
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3723
By Midgardsormr.Sectumsempra 2009-12-26 11:52:37
Asura.Korpg said: Diabolos.Sovereign said: Asura.Hit said: I agree but then, that's when personal responsibility comes into play. There is a difference between malicious and generally harmless 3rd party tools. This site being helpful and generally harmless to the working of the game vs. somebody who uses plug ins to automate/bot with characters. Avoid the morality of the subject. A third party tool is a third party tool, no matter it's end result. Yet you are here.
Aren't you being a hypocrite?
Beat me to it.
Server: Shiva
Game: FFXI
Posts: 197
By Shiva.Nightraid 2009-12-26 11:53:12
Diabolos.Sovereign said: without the use of 3rd party programs such as Windower or the application of what is called "reverse engineering"?
First off, I just wanted to be clear that I am not attempting to begin an argument about the ethics behind windower, botting, parsing, or any other third party program available for use when concerning FFXI. I would appreciate if this topic was discussed in it's appropriate threads, as there are already multiples of them on this forum.
But with recent discussion as it is, this topic came to mind and I wanted to see what other people thought about it.
I ask again: How much would we really know about the workings of FFXI without the development and applicable use of third party programs to reverse engineer?
I ask this because I realize that without these things, many of the in-game testing that has been done and more importantly, the information those tests have provided to the community, would not be available without the original practice of reverse engineering.
For those interested, Article 2, Section 4 of the FINAL FANTASY XI Software License Agreement specifically prohibits the practice of reverse engineering. See for yourself at http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/FINAL_FANTASY_XI_Software_License_Agreement
The reason this question interests me is because of how many players have benefited from these works. Windower plugins such as Distance and TParty taught the community a great deal when it came to Area of Effect, and (in the case of TParty) when certain mobs would ready specific abilities at direct HP percentages. This information directly lead to the formation of commonly accepted battle strategies. 3rd party parsing software was able to prove differences between equipment setups, showing what would be best for certain actions and situations. One of the games most famous reverse engineers was Kaeko's enmity testing, a project that taught players how the enmity system worked and could be used to create advantages during battle.
I am fully aware there are more examples than what I just listed above. I just wanted to be clear that works and testing such as those above have directly led to the quality of information found in widely used resources such as FFXIclopedia, something used even by players condemning 3rd party programs and ToS breaches.
The introduction of said information has undoubtedly made the general player community more knowledgeable overall, and thus created better players. Even those who do not directly benefit from the use of these programs have indirectly benefited from the information these programs and tests have given to the community. If these things had never become available or were never tested, how good do you think we'd really be at playing this game? I'm not saying it would be impossible to figure these things out on your own, but the amount of time and effort involved would have been drastically increased, stacked on top of incredible amounts of trial and error failures. That being said, I feel the information provided to the player community by the use of 3rd party tools and the application of reverse engineering has completely changed the way we play the game and allowed us as players to become more successful during events and battles.
Thoughts?
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Asura.Hit
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 765
By Asura.Hit 2009-12-26 11:54:32
Diabolos.Sovereign said: Asura.Hit said: I agree but then, that's when personal responsibility comes into play. There is a difference between malicious and generally harmless 3rd party tools. This site being helpful and generally harmless to the working of the game vs. somebody who uses plug ins to automate/bot with characters.
Avoid the morality of the subject. A third party tool is a third party tool, no matter it's end result.
Note that as a console player my experience with 3rd party tools is what I use/see here on this site; I didn't say whether they were "good" or "bad" or that it was a moral issue. I said it's a matter of personal responsibility, because it is.
Asura.Korpg
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 7782
By Asura.Korpg 2009-12-26 11:59:18
Midgardsormr.Sectumsempra said: Asura.Korpg said: Diabolos.Sovereign said: Asura.Hit said: I agree but then, that's when personal responsibility comes into play. There is a difference between malicious and generally harmless 3rd party tools. This site being helpful and generally harmless to the working of the game vs. somebody who uses plug ins to automate/bot with characters. Avoid the morality of the subject. A third party tool is a third party tool, no matter it's end result. Yet you are here.
Aren't you being a hypocrite? Beat me to it. Not really attacking him though.
But think about it. This website is against the ToS itself. Its a database of all the known synths in the game, also a database of all the known items outside of key items (which may change btw) and a shortcut into how to get them (thanks to the wiki buttons under EACH item found under the search). Its also a database showing what items under which levels for what jobs with certain stats on them....
Its like saying this:
I don't like cheating, but I cheat anyway. I must bash myself on the head, and I expect everyone else to do so after I finish bashing myself in.
Everyone cheats, and nobody cheats. This website does not discriminate against anyone (it even includes a Japanese version for our fair friends overseas who established this game for us to enjoy).
You think SE doesn't know about this website? Personally, I think they are glad that this website exists for everyone and not the select few who generally cheats their way to anything (like KI).
I think they would seek to delete Alla quicker than this website.
Asura.Korpg
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 7782
By Asura.Korpg 2009-12-26 12:04:11
Asura.Hit said: Diabolos.Sovereign said: Asura.Hit said: I agree but then, that's when personal responsibility comes into play. There is a difference between malicious and generally harmless 3rd party tools. This site being helpful and generally harmless to the working of the game vs. somebody who uses plug ins to automate/bot with characters. Avoid the morality of the subject. A third party tool is a third party tool, no matter it's end result. Note that as a console player my experience with 3rd party tools is what I use/see here on this site; I didn't say whether they were "good" or "bad" or that it was a moral issue. I said it's a matter of personal responsibility, because it is. Think of it this way then.
Without Windower, Console players would have an "unfair" advantage over PC players.
Console players would have access to wiki and ffxiah and atlas because of the ability to go to their computers and not have to disconnect to use wiki/ffxiah/atlas that PC players would have to do.
What makes windower "bad" is that most of the bots out there come from plugins for windower. Its not the program itself, its the add-ons that make the player bad.
Attack the bots, not the main program >.>
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Cerberus.Katarzyna
Server: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1354
By Cerberus.Katarzyna 2009-12-26 12:07:06
Asura.Korpg said: Diabolos.Sovereign said: Asura.Hit said: I agree but then, that's when personal responsibility comes into play. There is a difference between malicious and generally harmless 3rd party tools. This site being helpful and generally harmless to the working of the game vs. somebody who uses plug ins to automate/bot with characters. Avoid the morality of the subject. A third party tool is a third party tool, no matter it's end result. Yet you are here.
Aren't you being a hypocrite?
It's hypocritical for him to say "Ban all the players using third party tools" but he isn't.
A third party tool is a third party tool. SE's ToS doesn't have a gray area. You either support their ToS to the fullest extent or you don't.
Don't say "Ban all players who use third party apps" while posting on this website. Those are the biggest hypocrites of them all. (Not saying you, Korpg, but more for the people who view the FFxI world in black and white.)
Quote: Console players would have access to wiki and ffxiah and atlas because of the ability to go to their computers and not have to disconnect to use wiki/ffxiah/atlas that PC players would have to do.
Quoted for the truth.
Midgardsormr.Sectumsempra
Server: Midgardsormr
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3723
By Midgardsormr.Sectumsempra 2009-12-26 12:12:03
Quote: Console players would have access to wiki and ffxiah and atlas because of the ability to go to their computers and not have to disconnect to use wiki/ffxiah/atlas that PC players would have to do.
I never thought of that one. o.o; nice point.
Seraph.Aena
Server: Seraph
Game: FFXI
Posts: 221
By Seraph.Aena 2009-12-26 12:14:22
Quote: Console players would have access to wiki and ffxiah and atlas because of the ability to go to their computers and not have to disconnect to use wiki/ffxiah/atlas that PC players would have to do. Console players with a readily-available computer would have an "unfair" advantage over PC players without the means to access the internet on another computer/internet-accessible accessory elsewhere.*
(Honestly, it's console-players I run into more often who cannot do this. Probably because of Windower, but I'm probably spoiled IRL.)
Asura.Korpg
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 7782
By Asura.Korpg 2009-12-26 12:14:35
Cerberus.Katarzyna said: It's hypocritical for him to say "Ban all the players using third party tools" but he isn't.
A third party tool is a third party tool. SE's ToS doesn't have a gray area. You either support their ToS to the fullest extent or you don't.
Don't say "Ban all players who use third party apps" while posting on this website. Those are the biggest hypocrites of them all. Isn't that his main theme for this thread though?
He wants to change the thinking of usage of third-party tools.
Everyone knows they are using thrid-party tools if they use them at all.
So what? As long as you aren't affecting the gameplay of everyone around you, why should it be a big deal? This would be a big deal if this was only allowed to a certain amount of people who had to pay big bucks (i.e. NASA) to alter the gameplay where they would directly affect the outcomes of who got what (again, i.e. NASA).
Using Windower by itself, with no plugins at all, just gives the PC player console abilities. Using a few plugins allows a little information for the PC player, which can be guessed by the Console player also (i.e. the ability to see the percentages of the mob's health, the ability to see the recast timer of spells and abilities, etc).
Windower is a third party tool. Its against the ToS. But in all honesty, is it so bad that it requires social discredit, like the OP states?
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Server: Garuda
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1339
By Garuda.Antipika 2009-12-26 12:16:22
God these thread never ends, I suggest to start one for XIV you know so we sure to have it ready when the first XIV 3rd party tools will be out.
Diabolos.Sovereign
Server: Diabolos
Game: FFXI
Posts: 550
By Diabolos.Sovereign 2009-12-26 12:16:39
Asura.Korpg said: Diabolos.Sovereign said: Asura.Hit said: I agree but then, that's when personal responsibility comes into play. There is a difference between malicious and generally harmless 3rd party tools. This site being helpful and generally harmless to the working of the game vs. somebody who uses plug ins to automate/bot with characters. Avoid the morality of the subject. A third party tool is a third party tool, no matter it's end result. Yet you are here.
Aren't you being a hypocrite?
Were you calling me hypocritical over asking him to avoid the morality of the subject? That doesnt make a whole lot of sense to me, so I must ask why.
@ Hit; The actual definition of morality aside, differentiating between third party tools based on their end purpose is basically shading grey, saying that some are ok, and others are not... when in reality none of them are ok according to the black and white world described by the terms of service.
I will agree, however, that it is your personal responsibility on whether or not you choose to use a third party program, and should be held personally accountable for whatever repercussions that might entail.
But none of this was really the topics I wanted to discuss in this thread... I was attempting to center the discussion around how the community as a whole has reaped the benefits (via available knowledge) of third party programming, whether they chose to or not.
By Audra 2009-12-26 12:22:06
Quote: Console players would have access to wiki and ffxiah and atlas because of the ability to go to their computers and not have to disconnect to use wiki/ffxiah/atlas that PC players would have to do.
While this was true a few years ago, it's irrelevant now. SE has an official windower that has been out for a long time, but people don't like to use it because it uses a little more RAM and lowers the frame rate of the game.
Cerberus.Katarzyna
Server: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1354
By Cerberus.Katarzyna 2009-12-26 12:23:22
Asura.Korpg said: Windower is a third party tool. Its against the ToS. But in all honesty, is it so bad that it requires social discredit, like the OP states?
I'm not arguing that it does require social discredit.
But the people complaining about it also seem to forget they are posting on an unsupported, third party website, not to mention using information gathered about the game with the use of third party tools.
Cerberus.Katarzyna
Server: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1354
By Cerberus.Katarzyna 2009-12-26 12:24:38
Audra said: Quote: Console players would have access to wiki and ffxiah and atlas because of the ability to go to their computers and not have to disconnect to use wiki/ffxiah/atlas that PC players would have to do.
While this was true a few years ago, it's irrelevant now. SE has an official windower that has been out for a long time, but people don't like to use it because it uses a little more RAM and lowers the frame rate of the game.
Isn't that also placing PC players at a disadvantage?
You can't really argue "fair playing field" against console users if console users have a constant 29-30 FPS, while PC players with SE's official Windower get 15.
I don't understand how console players can even bring up SE's official windowed mode as a valid argument for the "even playing field."
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Midgardsormr.Sectumsempra
Server: Midgardsormr
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3723
By Midgardsormr.Sectumsempra 2009-12-26 12:24:45
Audra said: Quote: Console players would have access to wiki and ffxiah and atlas because of the ability to go to their computers and not have to disconnect to use wiki/ffxiah/atlas that PC players would have to do.
While this was true a few years ago, it's irrelevant now. SE has an official windower that has been out for a long time, but people don't like to use it because it uses a little more RAM and lowers the frame rate of the game.
Not even being hyperbolic, but that thing took up a TON more ram and caused my system to overheat. Maybe HP laptops just kinda suck.
Asura.Korpg
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 7782
By Asura.Korpg 2009-12-26 12:27:48
Diabolos.Sovereign said: Asura.Korpg said: Diabolos.Sovereign said: Asura.Hit said: I agree but then, that's when personal responsibility comes into play. There is a difference between malicious and generally harmless 3rd party tools. This site being helpful and generally harmless to the working of the game vs. somebody who uses plug ins to automate/bot with characters. Avoid the morality of the subject. A third party tool is a third party tool, no matter it's end result. Yet you are here.
Aren't you being a hypocrite? Were you calling me hypocritical over asking him to avoid the morality of the subject? That doesnt make a whole lot of sense to me, so I must ask why. You started this thread on a morality basis, yet you now wish to take out morality in the whole subject.
That is what I meant about you being hypocritical about the whole entire subject.
Yes, we reaped the benfits of other's usage of third-party tools. So what?
We reaped the benfits of atomic energy by tossing a couple of bombs in Japan in 1945. We reaped the benfits of agriculture in the 1800s thanks to slave labor, which helped fuel the industrial revolution to create a society today which we are dicussing. We reaped the benfits of others for our own use. Does that make us bad people at all? No, that makes us who we are.
Its like refusing to eat your supper because some kid in China is suffering. Is it our fault that the kid in China is suffering? Honestly?
Alexander.Vivicide
Server: Alexander
Game: FFXI
Posts: 207
By Alexander.Vivicide 2009-12-26 12:38:39
Everyone either uses third party tools or has reaped the benefits of someone else using third party tools. Third party tools are the best thing that ever happened to this game.
Parsers make people better players.
Windower takes the minor annoyances out of the game.
APRadar stops you from dieing while running from a mob.
Anyone who says these aren't good things can't use them and is just jealous.
Diabolos.Sovereign
Server: Diabolos
Game: FFXI
Posts: 550
By Diabolos.Sovereign 2009-12-26 12:42:16
Asura.Korpg said: You started this thread on a morality basis, yet you now wish to take out morality in the whole subject.
That is what I meant about you being hypocritical about the whole entire subject.
I'm fairly certain I made a point to include in the very beginning of the original post that this was not an ethical discussion about the usage of third party programs. If you think differently, you'll need to read the OP again. (Reference: second paragraph of the OP)
Nowhere in my original post (or most of my postings thereafter) did I discuss the morality of using third party programs. The discussion was led there by other posters, not myself. I simply asked them to avoid discussing the morality of the subject. Both at the original post, and again later when the discussion led there.
How is that hypocritical?
Server: Diabolos
Game: FFXI
Posts: 931
By Diabolos.Chupacabra 2009-12-26 13:09:28
I agree that we have reaped the benefits of knowledge gained by third party apps. However, I've grown to hate wiki to a point. Simply because some *** reads something on wiki and instantly he's an expert and there is NO other way to attempt anything. Except of course the way that is stated on wiki.
Knowledge at what cost? It's slowly eroded our creativity. The one thing that really does help is the HP percentage display. Now, granted I could do the same thing by just taking a black marker and using it on my screen when a mob does a move... and refining it into a solid black smudge over time -.-... But, again, we could simply cramp our fingers by sitting over the stun key. I know I've done it plenty of times.
If you happen to ask people in game that know me, one of the main things I'm looking forward to in FFXIV is the fact that for at least the first few months, we'll be blind and dumb in game. No one will be elite, because we'll all be ignorant of everything. That sense of going out and figuring it out for yourself, no matter how frustrating, is one of the big sources of enjoyment for me.
I'm not stepping on a soap box to preach at people either though. Everyone is entitled to their own opinions and their own morality in using 3rd party tools. I don't care if they use them, as long as they don't ask me to.
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Server: Unicorn
Game: FFXI
Posts: 676
By Unicorn.Nymphadora 2009-12-26 13:13:41
Audra said: Quote: Console players would have access to wiki and ffxiah and atlas because of the ability to go to their computers and not have to disconnect to use wiki/ffxiah/atlas that PC players would have to do.
While this was true a few years ago, it's irrelevant now. SE has an official windower that has been out for a long time, but people don't like to use it because it uses a little more RAM and lowers the frame rate of the game.
Was this in response to unofficial windower though?
Tbh, an "even playing field" would probably consist of an unwindowed pc playing experience with no extra apps. If you want to consider being on the same level with the console players. I'd honestly rather have my window though since as someone said farther up, console players would be able to hop to their pc to check info while pc players without a second pc would be SOL in that situation.
without the use of 3rd party programs such as Windower or the application of what is called "reverse engineering"?
First off, I just wanted to be clear that I am not attempting to begin an argument about the ethics behind windower, botting, parsing, or any other third party program available for use when concerning FFXI. I would appreciate if this topic was discussed in it's appropriate threads, as there are already multiples of them on this forum.
But with recent discussion as it is, this topic came to mind and I wanted to see what other people thought about it.
I ask again: How much would we really know about the workings of FFXI without the development and applicable use of third party programs to reverse engineer?
I ask this because I realize that without these things, many of the in-game testing that has been done and more importantly, the information those tests have provided to the community, would not be available without the original practice of reverse engineering.
For those interested, Article 2, Section 4 of the FINAL FANTASY XI Software License Agreement specifically prohibits the practice of reverse engineering. See for yourself at http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/FINAL_FANTASY_XI_Software_License_Agreement
The reason this question interests me is because of how many players have benefited from these works. Windower plugins such as Distance and TParty taught the community a great deal when it came to Area of Effect, and (in the case of TParty) when certain mobs would ready specific abilities at direct HP percentages. This information directly lead to the formation of commonly accepted battle strategies. 3rd party parsing software was able to prove differences between equipment setups, showing what would be best for certain actions and situations. One of the games most famous reverse engineers was Kaeko's enmity testing, a project that taught players how the enmity system worked and could be used to create advantages during battle.
I am fully aware there are more examples than what I just listed above. I just wanted to be clear that works and testing such as those above have directly led to the quality of information found in widely used resources such as FFXIclopedia, something used even by players condemning 3rd party programs and ToS breaches.
The introduction of said information has undoubtedly made the general player community more knowledgeable overall, and thus created better players. Even those who do not directly benefit from the use of these programs have indirectly benefited from the information these programs and tests have given to the community. If these things had never become available or were never tested, how good do you think we'd really be at playing this game? I'm not saying it would be impossible to figure these things out on your own, but the amount of time and effort involved would have been drastically increased, stacked on top of incredible amounts of trial and error failures. That being said, I feel the information provided to the player community by the use of 3rd party tools and the application of reverse engineering has completely changed the way we play the game and allowed us as players to become more successful during events and battles.
Thoughts?
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