November 2025 Version Update

By Resolution DRK I mean DRK using Resolution, not just WS itself. So yes it's both WS frequency and WS damage. Prime DRK is still slightly ahead, but Resolution can be used for situation where you want to avoid skillchains with Savage etc. Also for infinity scission-detonation with prime WS. Also while being probably the best with Prime Great sword, Resolution setup can be done with many great swords.

Why selectively quote, Nariont? What are you trying to gain by doing that?

Which, or both?

I was checking Prime Scythe, because I think it's by far superior overall and default choice for Drk specifically, but last time I checked damage wise both Primes were pretty close, so "both" in that context.

Resolution shouldn't beat any Prime (assuming ammo on Primes too ofc), but it becomes slightly worse easily accessible option, that is also bis for "no skillchain" scenario on DRK.

Oh, I just noticed a neat little side bonus for the new TH ring, (for those that care) technically it's now possible to do TH4 on any job with just accessories. Chaac Belt, TH ammo from VR, and the new Hoax Ring.

This is my intent. How much is it selling for?

2 on AH, but no sales yet. People still trying to gouge them.

In many ways I would agree it is more powerful and useful than KC...

That statement would maybe make sense if Dark Matter augments havent been a thing for the last few years.

Have no idea what you mean, but as another example: osash is 100m, the ammo has to be worth a LOT more than that.

The Ammo
How much supply is there, and how much demand is there for it?

I hear a lot of people ask the question "Why would I pay 900million for an item that's going to take even more Gil just to use?" It's a logical assessment. And it's not an unfair one, considering opportunity cost.

There's also others that will take any advantage they can get at any price, and apply it as needed, knowing they don't have to use it for every fight, or even any fight that's on farm.

It's an interesting piece and you're not locked-in on ownership. It's not like paying for Crep Cloak and now you can't sell it if you change your mind. You can change your mind.

Its value on the AH can't really be compared on the merit of its dps increase or its rarity alone. It comes at a Gil cost just to use it.

The market will decide in time. Right now there's people still evaluating forum commentary, making an assessment of how rare it actually is (is it as rare as a Kraken?), etc.

We've never really had an item whose cost exceeded the moment of ownership in this manner before, so comparing it directly to something like o sash doesn't seem quite right.

Well the earring is worth 100M easily if you are getting +20 stat from it, definitely at +25 stat.

Buying off AH any of the new items right now is - in my opinion - not advisable. The ammo in particular has been speculated to be great, but most simulations just assume a 100% DA ammo piece for WS, while we know it comes at the cost of disabling your ammo slot for idle and tp sets too, thus forcing you to haemorrhage gil (and to miss out on other stats, or even make it unpractical for many jobs that rely on particular ranged-ammo pieces).
The market will eventually adjust itself. Personally, i think whoever is stressing out to buy one right now is fomo-driven, which makes no sense as trove is not going anywhere and it cannot sell for much more than it’s currently (allegedly) selling right now.

Yes and no. It will for sure drop eventually but if you are OK with dropping like 200k gils per Sortie run, this ammo is probably the strongest single slot dps increase ever existing in this game for at least half of the DD jobs (beside some weapon giving access to bis WSs for jobs not having good WSs, like for example prime Gae Buide). Also people are spamming trove now, the supply will lower down at some point. Take Orpheus's sash for example. It's supply spiked very high after they dropped it to Aman. Then it went down. It still sells for over 100m too. I bought mine ammo for 410M and I'm very happy about it even if it drops to 100-200m range, but I already see some people on Bahamut buying 2nd Ampule (for multi boxing I assume, because it's completely OP)

This ammo is so OP for MNK, that it even makes mythic kinda usable, especially in very low attack scenario.

You shouldn't forget that this items primary purpose is to burn gil. It can't burn gil efficiently if only a hand full are in circulation.

This is a very level headed take and I agree.

I’ve become very curious about this “adjusted drop rate” thesis after a new item launches. Might be true for Diablo Immortal: today’s XI to some degree, idk. The only large datasets I’m aware of are mobdb which lacks a time axis and Thorny’s BCNM runs for KC. Maybe comparatively there’s reviewing whatever the heck private server admins do from a behavioral aspect.

I’ll make an adjusted point of view though: I don’t think *takes a long drag from his cigarette* Tanaka’s lived perspective as expressed in his game design is the same as Fujito, the good choir boy. In other words, I don’t see the internal prestige ever being surpassed. I think that’s worth dwelling on more. Probably I’m overweight that than other takes. I think there will only ever be a single billion+ dollar item. But what do I know. It’s been 48 hours, 7 sitting on Baha’s AH, price ranging from 200M-900M. It’s definitely a curious situation. At 1B+ there’s only a dozen marginal buyers on any given server.

If the explicit dev goal is gil removal and/or current/future Master Trials victory, ~20M by 2027-28 as Sroda Ring is today, why not? Cool doll to play with though, that’s for sure.

I agree people are spamming trove, but they will keep spamming trove provided the potential reward is high enough. People will stop spamming trove when they run out of silver vouchers or if it somehow won’t be worth the time/hassle anymore. Nobody is taking away the current means to get silver vouchers (primarily voracious foes RoE), on the contrary there have been aman trove campaigns in the past where vouchers would be given at login and which boosted the chances to get aman trove unique items. Furthermore nobody is keeping people from making more mules for the sake of spamming it, if it stays profitable enough.
The price, like always, will inevitably depend on supply and demand. As long as supply is at least comparable to that of previous aman trove unique items, the price of ampulla (and others) should align. Think of epaminonda, which is perhaps not as impactful, but it’s virtually used in most ws sets, so it’s in very high demand.
That being said, congrats on your ampulla! All the community greatly benefits from your contributions, so I’m genuinely glad you can put it to test!

Edit: on a side note, the community approach to these new items kind of reminds me of bonanza weapons before they were released for everyone. People would swear that - on paper - some were great and game changing, then we all got them and as it turns out most of them were not all that great.

So what's a reasonable price to charge for mars/venus orbs now?

The sim is showing some crazy things, you wouldn't expect DA100% ammo to beat knob for mumei but it does. Even at 3k TP which heavily weighs the first hit.

And I guess it makes sense when napkin math for 76% WSD or 70% w/o knob: (11 * 1.76) < (11*1.7+1)

Yeah it doesn't add wsd to the extra hit, but 1.0 ftp adding to even single hit WS is significant. Even blocking zanshin it wins for samurai DPS in simulator, which is probably the job that benefits the least.

And the gil cost I just think of it like food. How much would you be willing to spend on food that gives 100% DA for an ody fight? 300k? 1mil? behemoth steak +1 are 400k-1mil each depending on server and they don't increase DPS close to the DPS this ammo gives. Repasts ~7mil.

To compare to another item that gives insane TP gain, I compared drg/dnc with kclub and drg/war with ampulla. The ampulla pulls ahead especially when kclub drops below 70% accuracy.

For an example sim comparing time to WS against Apex Bat (lvl 135 eva1224) and kept tp set to -30% PDT
time to WS went down 4% for ampulla VS kclub but WS damage went from 76470 90932 because of fencer.

Overall ampulla DPS was 17.5% higher than naegling/kclub offhand. This gap will grow as you fight mobs with higher and higher evasion

This thing is pretty wild

There has been absolutely nothing to buy with gil for a very long time. It's an interesting item that finally gives you something you can do with it (literally pay-to-win). The people who are concerned about how much this item costs now likely aren't the target demographic this item was intended for, and probably won't ever be. I have serious doubts that many players would even understand how to even use it properly, as many players really don't minmax to that kind of degree, unless it becomes a meta thing. I've checked at least a half dozen Discord groups, and plenty of people are saying how it's not worth it. People really do not have a clue about it.

If you happen to get it from Trove, lucky you, enjoy it. Now, if you're worried about "how much" it will cost you per event, then the item's probably not for you and you should just sell it now before the price settles. The problem is, nobody really "knows" what it costs, so you will get some people who gouge it and others who will lowball, because of ignorance. And then others who will sit on it to "Wait and see" and then finally give in when they see more fake AH sales pile up.

To be honest, I think most people (myself included) wouldn’t blink at the idea of burning a few millions to push a clear. Like someone suggested, it’s more ore less like eating food.
I’m sure I will get it at some point, it’s just very hard to justify spending 1b on it on day one. I don’t know if the item is worth it (and that’s a subjective assessment anyway), but I know for certain it won’t hold its current value.

I resubbed, curious what my mastery ranks were and both are a measly 6. Guessing quests have a high bearing on it since I'm 22/22 master and done all missions, etc. 1250 days play time

I think Hoxne Ampulla doesn't take your gil if TA procs? I was using it on MNK and seeing some -1k swings. One-shotting monsters still consumed 1k or 2k for me, though, so the extra swings don't have to land to be counted.

Since we're reasonably confident TA checks before DA, that'd make sense. It probably happens at the time DA is checked, rather than the time the attack is added.

Overall, the ammo gets a 10/10 from me. It's exactly what I needed. It probably enhances multiple jobs more than Kraken Club enhances the few jobs that find it useful. However, I think it's not going to cost as much as Kraken Club because:
1. The drop rate is probably higher
2. There's a limited number of people on each server willing to gil toss for more DPS
3. People do AMAN BCs for other drops

The Enchantment also wears off if you zone, btw. It makes it more annoying to use when running around doing stuff like Silver Voucher NMs.

Should be pretty easy, and free, to test on thf with assassins charge.

I can see it settling at 300m with osash being 100m.

It also has limited use. Which is a little different than your point 2, but the same general idea.

You can use KC (almost) anywhere you want. Ammo is Big Bosses onry. maybe a full sortie, if you want to waste gil. Sortie is largely a boss rush.

That's the primary reason it will never touch a bil. (outside of first sale dumbfucks)

You're gonna use it to clear the ngai 25 you've been stuck on, and then it's going to sit in your wardrobe collecting dust. Next to your crocea, and your amano, and your ochain etc

I mean, I was using it while running around doing Silver Voucher NMs as MNK/BLM. It cost me like 100k and was more fun than a normal cycle!

If it didn't wear off while zoning then I'd probably use it fulltime. As it is, I only bothered to use it for about half the NMs.

My situation is that I got all the RMEAs that my account could reasonably support a while ago. Since then, I've been doing low-effort, high-reward things to make gil because there's nothing else to do without real playtime. Gil piles up and I have nothing to spend it on. At this point, spending 1k/sec, I can fight for a continuous month before I run out of gil. Given that this is kind of annoying to use and not relevant for most of my jobs / content, realistically I'll be able to use it whenever it's relevant until the server shuts down and won't have to do anything extra to get gil.

Exactly. And next month you'll not use it at all, cause you gain nothing.

It was a cute party trick once, then the novelty is gone.