October 2025 Version Update

From the sounds of it, it's pretty easy to recoup lost EP from an ml50 death just doing sortie and Sheol lol

Odds are you gonna die multiple times fighting the dangerous NMs.

You have to balance reward with both effort and risk.

Right now the fights are high effort high risk, questionable and not visible reward. As a result, a large majority don't bother.

AFAC did like a lot to the RDM NM before it spammed breakga with 1hr. SMN strat would work though

I do?
Unless you're at 3,5m above the ML50 (that is to say, ML51-1 if there was a level 51) then I'm pretty sure a lot of people do give plenty of *** about it?

After finally completing the insanely masochistical experience that is reaching ML50, you're so incredibly burned out and pissed out of that ***that you don't wanna go back to do it ever again, if possible. And dying more than a few times means delevelling down to ML49.

I dunno, I do give a lot of ***. I can imagine it won't be the same for everyone but at the same time I'm pretty confident there's gotta be plenty of other people who are exactly on the same boat as me.


Can we please stop with this incredibly toxic approach of having to "man up" or "grow a pair" or "deserving" things?
This is not real life, we get plenty of that ***every day in each of our own lives.
While I do not endorse it I could totally understand it if we were talking about some rare or powerful items which are inherently tied to your "status" as a pro player, but can we please please pretty please stop giving this relevance to EXPERIENCE POINTS and LEVEL in a MMORPG in two thousand *** twenty five?

This is not 2004 were people would brag reaching level 75 to those noobs struggling to find a pt in Jeuno and stuck at level 54, c'mon...

On some of those, absolutely... way more than once.
Granted that in Limbus you have a ~50% reduction on EP loss. Not sure how it interacts/multiplies with the reduction from raise/reraise spells.

I know for instance that one of the (mulitple) reasons why I never bothered with those NMs, at least some of them and on some jobs, is exactly because I don't wanna lose any single *** point of EP, given the intense hammer-on-bollux pain that is tryin to get points back.
...unless you want to pay gil to a merc of course, then it's easy I suppose but bye bye money!

Sort of. No one does that content for the EP reward, that's just a bonus. Sortie will give you ~18k EP/hr and it's 1hr content per day. Not "enough to recoup".

A bonus which is lacking on Limbus NMs, though it is present on trash mobs.

Looks very much like an oversight to me.

They did balance risk, by giving us that reduction in loss with the Graces, currently on bahamut it's at 36%. The reward is still up for debate, many people the matter is meaningless it seems lol

Later today I'll ask my ml50 friend to go die in limbus and I'll raise3 them and see what the EP loss is and report back.

The tricky part about Sheol and Sortie (more the former than the latter, not sure what everybody does in Sortie but we don't really kill a lot of stuff) is that the amount of EP per kill, and hence the overall EP per run, that you get, is deeply tied to the difference between target's level and ML level of the highest person in your party.

The monsters level are fixed of course, but if you have 6 people at ML5 doing a sheol run, they're gonna get tons of EP (I know I basically got my COR from 0 to 20 just doing random Sheol C runs), but if at least one person in your pt is ML50, then everybody will get the EP per kill a ML50 would get, and sadly more often than not that's a pretty shitty amount of EP.

This effect, which may seem small per sé, becomes synergically more intense because the higher your ML, the higher the amount needed to reach the next one, in a very parabolic and not linear way.
So the more you level up not only you need a *** more EP, but you also get less for each kill. It's a vicious circle created by a demon to torture our poor souls.
(can prevent some of this with Level Sync of course)

I mean, you don't have to tell me twice. I don't give a *** about ML. I've posted about 300 times on this very website telling people IDGAF about them, and encouraging others to not give a *** about them. I'm not at all proud of any ML on any job on either of my characters. They're nearly totally meaningless.

Which is why it does not matter at all if you delevel from ML50 to ML49. The impact is basically nothing, other than your precious feelings.

If it hurts your feelings that you lost 1 STR and 7 HP, I would continue to tell you to re-evaluate what MLs mean to you, because you have an unhealthy relationship with a boring, meaningless grind (that basically everyone bots). It's a totally hollow and pointless "achievement" that means nothing in the grand scheme of things. Stop getting upset over losing ML and get a grip on the reality which is: it doesn't matter at all.

What I was meaning with my comment is, there's other places to recoup the loss of exp, even the Limbus climb itself, doing a Peach Princess etc. Why do we need every content we touch to grant exp? HTBFs don't give EP, but we lose it if we die, noones complaining about that, that I see. Ambu was changed so no longer relevant.

You already balanced your own risk vs reward, by not taking an ML50 job to fight the NMs.

Because adding an EP grind that can only be done via botting is not beneficial to the health of the game.

Adding EP bonus on every day activities is no-nonsense of course it makes sense kind of thing. It literally already exists on Limbus trash mobs, but not NMs.

HTBFs don't give EP because they're too low level to give EP. Same with some mobs that don't give CP.


Indeed. By not going at all. Do you want content to be done or not?

Ok reporting back, friend ML50 starting with 1,383,368 EP, killed by a scorpion in NE1. Raise 3 brought him to 1,378,481. Lost less than 5k, 4887 EP. That's with a 36% reduction from Grace.

For bonus I had him die again and accept a Raise 1. Took to 1,354,049. So lost 24,432 EP.

if the rewards for killing NMs were immediate and not weekly/monthly, I think people would happily die over and over to get them killed. it is a very weird system

I mean, there's no protesters standing outside Limbus, so the content is getting done on my server even with some delevels here and there lol


But you can lose EP dying in an HTBF, but that's excused because it's low level so not expected to grant EP? So is the issue that the new NMs are higher level? So they "should" give EP on that basis?

Genuinely trying to understand the logic

Edit: do Ody Gaol bosses give EP on kill? People throw themselves religiously at those, but I've never paid attention to if they do or not

Ah crap, if he had capped EP, he'd delevel after only 781 deaths. WTF is SE thinking with these numbers? They really need to fix this. If you challenge all of the NMs and each of them kills you 36 times, you'd delevel in a single week!

A single peach power only covers 12 deaths!
If you're getting 100k EP/hour (a horrible rate for losers), that means you need to EP for OVER THREE MINUTES to get back the EP from that death. The horror!!

Won't someone think of the epeen!?

Edit: side note: it seems the math is (EP lost * Raise recovery) * grace bonus.
Here are some other interesting numbers (HP loss;R3 loss)
ML10: 527;53
ML20: 1,397;140
ML30: 3,308;331
ML40: 9,849;985
ML50: 48,865;4886

So...yeah...you need to be over ML40 for the loss to be > 2 Apex mobs. IDK, I'm really not seeing the problem here unless people are throwing their ML50 bodies at the NMs with no raise in sight, then choosing to homepoint instead of waiting for a raise. IDK, user error IMO.

I never bothered to look, but I guess technically they do...? I got 196 EP from a V25 Ngai. Not sure what ML everyone in the fight was, but either way it's a totally insignificant amount of EP compared to what you "spend" in deaths to get it, at least for the highest tier stuff.

Sigh.. no one (side eye) is excusing EP loss on death.

That crap should've died when XP loss on death died.

I can think of no good reason why there is even EP loss on death, at such a high penalty, other than to flagrantly waste players time.

Trust we're clear on that.

Masochistic design, for the masochists, that's why

I think most know that this game is pretty disrespectful of your time. part of the early 2000 MMO genre design and we're so used to it that we accept and even defend it. but 20 years later when you see things getting worse, and not better, it is frustrating. now this is not across the board, obviously they are focused on improving a lot of things here and there, and I for one appreciate the changes so far. but the "main" content is Limbus right now for better or worse, and everything about it so far is planned to require more time and give you less in return.