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Limbus 2025
 Carbuncle.Maletaru
Server: Carbuncle
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3794
By Carbuncle.Maletaru 2025-10-21 01:15:31
I think I can corroborate Ninja's number of ~8k Units per full run at 135 on both Apo and Teme, aside from the 3k you get in the final chest.
130 was, what, around 5.5k? Carbuncle.Maletaru said: »Temenos has 21 floors at 170 per floor, 4 floors at 340 per floor on 130 = 4,930 units + 3000 for the chest.
At 119 that changes to (21*60) + (230*4) = 2,180 + 3000
7,930 vs 5,180
Apollyon has 10 floors at 238 per floor, 8 floors at 306 per floor on 130 = 4,828 unit + 3000 for the chest.
At 119 that changes to (10*128) + (8*196) = 2,848 + 3000
7,828 vs 5,848
I haven't done 135 but assuming they followed the same formula (+10 per level per floor) it would be:
Temenos:
(21*220) + (4*390) + 3000
9,180 for 135 -> 7,930 for 130 -> 5,180 for 119
Apollyon:
(10*288) + (8*356) + 3000
8,728 for 135 -> 7,828 for 130 -> 5,848 for 119
 Asura.Sechs
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 10971
By Asura.Sechs 2025-10-21 01:53:58
Ooh, so it was a bit less than 8k for 130 and ~9k for 135.
That felt like a bigger difference to me, but it totally is not I suppose.
By Dodik 2025-10-21 06:42:36
CL135 gives 6,248 points per climb not including chest, posted numbers while back. It's a 30% increase on CL130.
Quote: 6,248 from floor objectives alone. ~30% increase from CL130.
Apollyon gave 4,828 from floor objectives at CL 130.
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By K123 2025-10-21 07:00:11
Hopefully 140 is another 30% higher than 135
 Cerberus.Kylos
Server: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 4751
By Cerberus.Kylos 2025-10-21 07:19:12
The devs wanted the NMs to be server friendly so everyone could have a go, but they made them difficult enough with almost no incentive that hardly anyone wants to bother. If they were too easy, they would be farmed constantly. If they were too hard with big rewards, only a few groups would both be able to beat them and be online at the right time to claim them. The devs tried to find a balance and failed.
What they should have done instead:
Make the NMs force spawned with pop items dropped by other enemies in different wings, like Abyssea.
Add a natural progression from easy enemies to mid bosses to mega bosses.
Let players learn mechanics gradually instead of forcing them straight into the hardest fights.
Yes, I know force spawning is old and boring, but it has proven to work. You can't have time spawns with proper incentive in 2025 as it only leads to what we were experiencing over 20 years ago.
Domain Invasion works as server content because it built progression into the system. Players fought regular dragon NMs first, then eventually took on Mireu, which served as the mega boss. By the time Mireu was introduced players were already invested in getting the bonus for more points.
Limbus doesn’t have that. It gives us weak enemies and then jumps straight to the hardest bosses with nothing in between. There’s no training ground, no middle step, and no real reason for most players to risk exemplar points figuring it out. When I was testing the SMN NM in Temenos last week with a friend, we wiped several times before learning how to reasonably hold it. An easier version to practice on would have made that process worthwhile to more players.
Limbus used to feel like progression. It had currency, mid bosses, and big fights like Omega and Ultima. There were unique gimmicks and mechanics that made the content stand out. Now it’s just barebones filler meant to keep people busy, without any of the personality or structure the original had.
If the devs asked me what to do, I’d tell them to scrap this version and start over. Keep the core idea, but bring back meaningful progression, proper incentives, and a reason to play beyond curiosity. At the pace they add content, I don’t see Limbus being in a good place until at least 2027.
Asura.Sechs
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 10971
By Asura.Sechs 2025-10-21 07:48:36
I understand the point you're trying to make, I think I agree to a very wide margin.
I think you might be missing a very important point from SE's point of view though. Wether we can agree or disagree with them, a key part of the Limbus development for them was trying to bring back the "you're in the world" feeling, as opposed to the instancing we've seen for all these past years.
With a goal like this, of course they wanted to promote free-spawning and free-popping NMs.
I'm in the frontlines in saying that the NMs system simply doesn't work right now because it doesn't, there's not much to discuss here, it doesn't, period.
But lest we forget that it's not "complete" yet.
I'm very very confident NMs will have a wider scope in Limbus once new elements of this endgame activity will be released before the end of the year.
It's too early for us to judge now, let's wait a bit more, shall we?
 Carbuncle.Nynja
Server: Carbuncle
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6491
By Carbuncle.Nynja 2025-10-21 08:16:39
Carbuncle.Maletaru said: »Yes. People would 1000% be bitching if SE made these NMs spawn at JP midnight and give a unit bonus. Well they already spawn at JP midnight
But whats your source data that people would be "1000% be bitching if they gave the NM's a 2k unit bonus"?
Server: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
Posts: 272
By Phoenix.Gavroches 2025-10-21 08:22:56
Yeah, people will be bitching, but so what, that’s all they do…
NM are not solo friendly for sure, but they are not difficult with 6 people. Shiva seems to have taken down their NMs, look like we done on Phoenix as well. They take 10 min tops. Just glad it’s for the month now.
Can’t wait for the next update as those gears will be done by year’s end.
Carbuncle.Nynja
Server: Carbuncle
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6491
By Carbuncle.Nynja 2025-10-21 08:30:31
I'm in the frontlines in saying that the NMs system simply doesn't work right now because it doesn't, there's not much to discuss here, it doesn't, period.
But lest we forget that it's not "complete" yet. It doesnt work for the reasons already covered:
1-Theres no reward for being part of a kill. "someone else will kill it" is the motto.
2-You cant just kill the NM's on your way up. They need a very different group setup from a climb group.
3-These NM's have massive OHKO potential meaning anyone unprepared is going to get destroyed rather quickly. This means that non-NM built groups and soloers will be unlikely and/or unable to aid even if they come across a group that is set up to fight NM's. Most of those NM's have access to one AOE move, and they hurt if you're unprepared.
 Bismarck.Nickeny
Server: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2486
By Bismarck.Nickeny 2025-10-21 12:31:57
Phoenix.Gavroches said: »NM are not solo friendly for sure, but they are not difficult with 6 people. Shiva seems to have taken down their NMs, look like we done on Phoenix as well. They take 10 min tops. Just glad it’s for the month now.
I'm no game developer, but that sounds like bad game development. 10min monthly content?
Server: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
Posts: 272
By Phoenix.Gavroches 2025-10-21 16:24:30
Phoenix.Gavroches said: »NM are not solo friendly for sure, but they are not difficult with 6 people. Shiva seems to have taken down their NMs, look like we done on Phoenix as well. They take 10 min tops. Just glad it’s for the month now.
I'm no game developer, but that sounds like bad game development. 10min monthly content?
Per NM, 4 max a day, per zone (x2)= 44 NM or about 440 min worth of fight a month per server, 80 min a day for 5 days, if you focus on that. Most server have only a few team (Amarok on Phoenix probably did the most) that want to tackle it, so that’s enough in my opinion. Also, easier said than done, Asura, bahamut, Odin… isn’t done yet and they have way more ppl than us.
Carbuncle.Nynja
Server: Carbuncle
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6491
By Carbuncle.Nynja 2025-10-22 20:08:58
Well I was (c)hoping that the matter drop rate would adjust on the fly as NM's are killed but that doesnt seem to be the case. 14 NM kills on my server that I know of and I went 0/6 on matter.
I'm sure someones gonna say "well kill them and this wont be a problem", but if theyre NOT killed the content is cooked for 4 weeks and theres nothing you can do about it.
Absolutely horrible foresight, which is par for the course.
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Carbuncle.Nynja
Server: Carbuncle
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6491
By Carbuncle.Nynja 2025-10-24 08:34:32
So this is interesting.
Yesterday
11:38:14=== Area: Temenos ===
11:39:37[limbus] Archmage's (BLM) @ Northern Tower - 4th Floor
11:39:37[limbus] Pedagogy (SCH) @ Western Tower - 7th Floor
11:39:37[limbus] Futhark (RUN) @ Central Tower - 1st Floor
Today, before JP midnight (which is at 11am):
09:25:34=== Area: Temenos ===
09:26:52[limbus] Piety (WHM) @ Western Tower - 7th Floor
09:26:52[limbus] Plunderer's (THF) @ Northern Tower - 3rd Floor
09:26:52[limbus] Pedagogy (SCH) @ Eastern Tower - 7th Floor
The SCH moving is odd, but that could be an issue with the coordinate reading. Why did the WHM and THF spawn???
Carbuncle.Nynja
Server: Carbuncle
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6491
By Carbuncle.Nynja 2025-10-24 08:35:13
Shiva.Thorny
Server: Shiva
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3627
By Shiva.Thorny 2025-10-24 08:47:16
but if theyre NOT killed the content is cooked for 4 weeks and theres nothing you can do about it.
Absolutely horrible foresight, which is par for the course.
Yep. It's even worse than Mireu streaks at incentivizing. You miss them, the content gets degraded so there's even less people around killing them, and it perpetuates itself.
Can't even use the strawmans about small servers any more, since Asura and Bahamut have proven to be unsustainable. Dunno what they were thinking.
By Dodik 2025-10-24 09:27:02
Something something encouraging server engagion something something helps the server.
Valefor.Philemon
Server: Valefor
Game: FFXI
Posts: 651
By Valefor.Philemon 2025-10-24 11:51:32
On Valefor, the NMs are all down in Temenos. The chest is blue. And I'm 0/12 on matter so far this week.
Carbuncle.Nynja
Server: Carbuncle
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6491
By Carbuncle.Nynja 2025-10-24 12:24:24
Something something encouraging server engagion something something helps the server. The point is that the content is cooked for an entire month if the S-tier players on your server said "something something we dont care for limbus something something *** them kids".
By Dodik 2025-10-24 12:52:44
That seems to be by design. So the choices are suck it up and do it, or don't do it at all. It's not a well thought out design, and even killing all NMs won't do anything until the next month.
Server: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
Posts: 272
By Phoenix.Gavroches 2025-10-24 12:58:27
Yeah, if your server (or your group) doesn’t kill those NM, you will have a whole other month of dead limbus.
At the same time, those A-team that killed those NM won’t be doing that for months (they will get their accessories done in 2 months and don’t ever turn back), so if your server has the chance to have them clear, clear your schedule next month and log every limbus you can.
Carbuncle.Nynja
Server: Carbuncle
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6491
By Carbuncle.Nynja 2025-10-24 13:04:57
It's not a well thought out design something something now you're seeing the problem something something
By Dodik 2025-10-24 13:36:59
Not like I called it out 15 pages ago or something >.>
Bismarck.Nickeny
Server: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2486
By Bismarck.Nickeny 2025-10-24 13:48:29
SE making ***content that only rewards people who play a 20+ year old game as if it were sort of an addiction, bad?
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 21
By Asura.Mrbrightsighed 2025-10-24 20:50:06
Yeah I'm done doing Limbus, no thanks SE. Fix the drop rate, make clears take 1/2 the time, or make the NMs give credit for clears(4 NMs = clear). Thanks for coming to my TED talk
[+]
 Quetzalcoatl.Jakey
Server: Quetzalcoatl
Game: FFXI
Posts: 447
By Quetzalcoatl.Jakey 2025-10-25 05:48:35
I've been rushing to do as much limbus as i can while others still kill some nms. I can never expect when SE will fix things and their first fix here did very little so i figure i basically just have a few more weeks before the number of nms killed gets so low it will become pointless for ring and earring progress.
On the bright side earrings have made major progress, I'm getting decent master levels with the 135 enemies and i can always go back to working in +4s.
Bismarck.Nickeny
Server: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2486
By Bismarck.Nickeny 2025-10-25 10:24:41
Quetzalcoatl.Jakey said: »I've been rushing to do as much limbus as i can while others still kill some nms. I can never expect when SE will fix things and their first fix here did very little so i figure i basically just have a few more weeks before the number of nms killed gets so low it will become pointless for ring and earring progress.
On the bright side earrings have made major progress, I'm getting decent master levels with the 135 enemies and i can always go back to working in +4s.
God to be this easy to please... I'm jealous, I don't find getting spit in my face attractive anymore
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Lakshmi.Buukki
Server: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
By Lakshmi.Buukki 2025-10-25 11:00:40
Game is in a really bad place right now. Sortie is daily grind content (im actually way more in favor of Sortie than Limbus) and Limbus is flat out terrible. At this point, if you're still playing, it's because you just like FFXI so you'll take whatever you can get. Kudos for anybody forcing themselves to still do this, I try every day to join a pug but immediately get a headache thinking about it. It's THAT bad. But there's not much else to do, so people might feel forced into doing it due to no goals. Just a rough spot FFXI is sitting in
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I didn't see a thread dedicated to new-new Limbus so here's one with some findings. I’ve continued to edit this post with new discoveries made throughout the thread.
For entrance and zone info, really the SE post is best:
https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/62862-June-10-2025-%28JST%29-Version-Update?p=667175&viewfull=1#post667175
Obtaining the Key Items / Units
Kill mobs to fill the bar in the upper left. Seems to take 6-15+ mobs per floor, this increases based on the chosen mob level and number of people in your party. You continue to get units as long as you want to sit there and keep killing and refill the bar, but at half the rate. Whether this is comparable to the units gained by continuing to move floors and finishing the event to get the chest bonus is up a function of your personal kill speed and group size.
Each Temporary KI looks like "Apollyon SE #1 data", and you get 1 per floor. You keep them until you open a chest and then they are all lost. You get a KI for filling up the bar at the top of the screen on each floor. I didn't count but I think it requires like 10 mobs per floor (this apparently varies by level choice). Once you get a KI, you should get to keep it even if you leave Limbus. You would lose any progress on any un-completed floors, but this is like 6-10 kills so no biggie.
You can enter any section / floor at any time. You don't need to go in any type of order or "climb" if you're missing one of the upper KIs from a run that got interrupted.
Once you choose a level (119-130), I think you need to keep that level choice until you open a chest. If you adjust it after getting some KIs, you might lose them. The NPC dialogue isn't too clear on this.
There were no direct drops from mobs, of any kind.
Mob Details
All the mobs seem to have pretty serious DT, probably 50% (confirm by Brixy as 50%, per Air Knife expected enspell dmg). But they aren't hard. They hit like 130s. AoE/Cleaving is extremely nerfed.
Pulling mobs is weird. Any initial spell cast before initial aggro / dynamic level adjustment may land, but will not remain on the mob. You will not see a message to reflect this.
If you pull with silence (while it's un-aggroed), it appears the silence instantly wears without any message, likely due to the dynamic-level adjustment which happens as soon as you aggro (credit to Moonlightagb for this theory, I think it's correct). Silencing twice is probably needed. This doesn't matter much in a party, but if you're solo and mob density is high this effect could be pretty annoying. Other examples later verified by others: If you pull with Immanence, the skill chain will not complete. If you pull with Dia, you can sleep right after.
Mob respawn is on the order of a few minutes but I was pretty lonely this morning. I had one floor with a couple groups and it felt faster, might be dynamic spawn rate.
Aside from the initial-aggro weirdness, everything can be debuffed and slept as expected. Sneak/invis work fine, but true aggro mobs remain like Imps and such.
Getting the goods
In order for the chest to open, you need to finish all of the zone, not just one section. So Apollyon zone is 18 KIs, Temenos zone should be 25 KIs. If the chest says "it won't open", you need more KIs. The chests are located at the exit of each "top floor" in each section. However, you can only open a chest once you have finished all the sections (NW,NE,SW,SE,etc).
After getting all KIs in Apollyon, each character had earned:
About 4000 units from killing mobs and climbing floors
3000 units from finding a shiny ??? on the ground and clicking it
3000 units (one character in the party got 5000 units, no idea why) directly from the chest
So each character of a 6-person party left a ~90 minute run with 10-12k units. EP was ~15k/hr, but this is ML50s fighting level 130s. Maybe it's better if you're lower.
My initial limit on Apollyon units was 30,000. After I opened the chest, that increased to 33,000. It looks to increase 3000 more with each chest open.
Apollyon Units are used to upgrade AF pieces to +4.
Temenos Units are used to upgrade relic pieces to +4.
The upgrade costs are:
Head: 20k units
Body: 30k units
Hands: 15k units
Legs: 25k units
Feet: 10k units
Once I got to 10k units, the furnace did allow me to trade a foot piece, though I didn't choose to complete the process. Trading any other slot did nothing.
I did get the title Apollyon Razer, which I think is just the same as the old title lol
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