Cloud Of Darkness HTBF

I've always understood TH to only impact whether a slot appears or not. Shared drop distributions being unaffected. Honestly, this makes the most sense. Impacting distribution within slots just seems like a can of worms that doesn't make sense to open.

More than anything it sounds like something that would be more complex to implement in their code, but then again who knows?

Say TH does help it would mean that mask would need to be something like this with TH0 since the value would always have to be from SE's chart of TH and because we would assume higher drop rates on harder difficulties.
VE = 0.5%
E = 1%
N = 5%
D = 10%
VD = 15%

The 10/15% with TH0 seems unlikely though so it can't be TH based.

Has mask and 2 accessories ever been shown?

Alls I know is that my character's face remains painfully uncovered. I can't chase Mario properly until this thing drops.

The problem with TH is that it should always "work". But player experience has shown from too much of us that it appears to not make any demonstrable difference whether we apply it or not in certain situations. Yeah, I could be eyeballing it incorrectly and just not understanding the data or whatever, but too many people experienced the same, are we all crazy? It would be obvious by now after all this time whether it truly was effecting drops the way we think it should be.

Now as people have said both jokingly and seriously, there's no reason not to apply TH in Cloud of Darkness (or anywhere else for that matter), because why not, takes 2 seconds, bring a THF, impacts clear rate zero, so apply it anyways. But 300+ (logged) Shinryu VD runs with no armor/weapons with at least TH4 (at least 140~ as THF during glitch applying TH8+) have shown me firsthand proof that TH can't really be making a difference in the way I feel it should be working. And I have to assume HTBFs since Selbina ones are all coded with the same drop mechanics.

Yeah, well. Migawari doesn't always work. Geomancy doesn't always work. Sometimes there's this wall and sometimes there's that wall. TH doesn't always work either.

Hurray for secret ***.

As an aside; we all love to show "the chart" for TH, forgetting that those are base rates there's nothing that says they can't add secret multipliers on top.
(x2 x5 x.1 because *** you why not)

You already know there's multipliers in place going from VE to VD

If you raise the drop rate of the mask, you raise the drop rate of all other items within the slot as well.


Using the numbers above, presuming the above rules and stipulations, heres how the Chasties numbers should look like after 1000 kills with equal distribution among random sorting of the four items
250 kills at slot 1: 250*0.01 = 2.5 drops, rest dont matter
250 kills at slot 2: Item 1 = 250*0.35 = 87.5. Chasties = (250-87)*0.01 = 1.36
250 kills in slot 3: Item 1 = 87. Item 2 = (250-87)*0.35 = 57. Chasties = (250-87-57)*0.01 = 1.06
250 kills in slot 4 (the guaranteed slot when first 3 rolls fail): (250-87-57)*0.35 = 37. 250-(87-57-37) = 69 Chasties by default of the previous lost rolls on the slot.

Presuming I made no mistakes, these numbers suggest that the player will get 73 Chasties in 1000 fights. But more importantly, it suggests that the absolute biggest drop rate factor is the drop slot randomizer where landing in the default fourth slot will grant you 14x the drop rate compared to the other 3 slots.


Now, how does TH factor in with this system? You cant just raise the drop rate of Chasties and leave everything else alone. Lets give the 35% items a 1.5x bump, and the 1% a whooping 2x bump, so 52.5% and 2%
250 kills at slot 1: 250*0.02 = 5 drops, rest dont matter
250 kills at slot 2: Item 1 = 250*0.525 = 131. Chasties = (250-131)*0.02 = 2.38
250 kills in slot 3: Item 1 = 131. Item 2 = (250-131)*0.525 = 62. (250-131-62)*0.02 = 1.15
250 kills in slot 4 (the guaranteed slot when first 3 rolls fail): (250-131-62)*0.525 = 29. 250-(131-62-29) = 28 Chasties by default of the previous lost rolls on the slot.

A total of 36.53 Chasties in 1000 kills.

Introducing TH lowers the drop rate of the prized item. You're increasing the chances of getting the other items when they last in slots 1/2/3, which leaves less chances for the items to be won when they land in the later slots. Look, Maybe thats how it actually works, and you're being punished for using TH, because we've all felt that way at a times with the stupid trait. But I highly doubt it because it is such an overly complex system that serves no purpose.

Realistically, the only way to get a decent idea of if TH affects drop slots with multiple items would be to conduct a moderate sample size with and without TH, and there are very few targets this can be done on with minimal nuisance.

See? People do actually like to do math.

Not if it has its own slot which is what I'm wondering. Granted most people by the time they are chasing mask will be 3/3 accessories it is very hard to determine this.

Has anyone ever got mask+2 accessory which might refute the idea of the mask having its own slot? Hence being 2+1 like Omen body have their own slot and can also drop 2 accessories?

Not if it has its own slot which is what I'm wondering. Granted most people by the time they are chasing mask will be 3/3 accessories it is very hard to determine this.

Has anyone ever got mask+2 accessory which might refute the idea of the mask having its own slot? Hence being 2+1 like Omen body have their own slot and can also drop 2 accessories?

Omen bodies do not have their own slot. Body takes the accessory slot.

I don't think anyone has ever reported 3 drops (of any type) from CoD.

Not its own

Ok I'd agree if two can drop because otherwise that would mean there would be 2+2 slots which I doubt SE are generous enough to have done.

does anyone know what the NM's defense on this is?

Hi everyone, last month I approached this fight as SCH.
I used to do it consistently as MNK on E, but it never dropped the headpiece, so I adjusted my gear and did some testing.
Right away, I managed to clear it on N, and once I understood the mechanics, I did it on D, and the mask dropped on the first try (lucky me).
Now I'd like to help some friends who still need it, and I was thinking of doing it on VD.
During the first couple of tries, I'm running into a damage issue: the helix hits for 12k, so I should have reached the cap for its DoT, but despite this, I run out of time and the mob has around 5-10% HP left.
What am I missing?
Is it just about throwing another spell to do more DoT? Poison or something else?
Or is it something different?

Honestly, my experience is the same. VD damage in 30mins seems mathematically impossible for me. I try to see if I am at 50% by 15mins remaining, 25% by 7.5mins remaining, etc. (which illogically ignores the 2-3mins of buffing at the start but whatever) and it isn't happening for me. Usually 65% by 15 mins, 35% by 7.5mins, etc. leaving it 8-10% at 0mins.

On VD SCH/NIN, I completely buff by 29:00, and my first helix has landed at 29:00. I am using a max duration set for 292~ second helix IIs. (Just shy of 5mins) This will do just shy of 20% for 1 Helix. My Helix II's land for ~10,500, using daybreak no weatherspoon. No other damage, poison etc. After 5 cycles of this totaling around 25mins, he will be around 3-4%, and one last helix will finish him off at around the 27minute mark. So its do-able, but takes literally about 27mins, so no time to waste buffing at the start. I put up storm, klima, protect, shadows, and stoneskin - and get going.

Edit: I am also pre-popping Ebulliance etc, so that my helix II lands exactly as the previous one wears off. (I even customized the debuffed timer specifically for my Luminohelix II to show the correct duration for this)

Edit 2: If you're rushed for time at the end, you can switch to firestorm 2 and drop a fusion, bursting a T5/T4, but you will get add(s) to pop by then and that can be slightly risky. If you have the time, I just wait for the Helix to kill.

Edit 3: I even tag th4 via Hojo: Ni as it will tag without feeding any tp.

I will say its very silly to run around literally in a circle for a half hour straight - with constant focus, but thats FFXI for you lol. Still no mask yet.

Hope this helps.

I still think it's silly, but now I'm having second thoughts about it. Forming PUGs is not hard, but takes a while (sometimes like half an hour). Soloing on E isn't giving out the mask that I want. I may consider trying this method now after frustration.

I formed a PUG for VD. 2boxed BRD+SAM, PLD+WHM+COR were others. 4 people lotting mask isn't fun since as soon as anyone gets it they are too busy to do any more (this is what happened).

To be honest it would be slower without the COR but I think feasible. The WHM might have been able to be RDM or SCH too which bring other benefits to speed and ease - the PLD just kites all adds round in a circle and SAM solos boss.

I'd second this, except do this at the start of the fight. Cloud cannot summon adds until after Primordial, do a few magic bursts early on in the fight to push to 80% then start kiting. Can help speed up some times on any difficulty, it'd shave off around 4~ minutes on VD for a 19-20 minute clear.

I've found that having a tank for adds is unnecessary after a few runs in PUGs. You can kill CoD before she gets any adds off after the first Waning Vigor. At most 1 add (RDM can tag it and nullify him as a threat).

I've had the same thing happening (timing out) to me a few times, with several others were I was very very close to timing out on VD.

Here's a few tips that helped me and might help you guys:


1) Check how much time it takes you to buff/summon trusts once you enter and before you engage. If it takes more than 2 mins (which is already a lot) that's precious time you're losing where Helices could be tock-ing

2) Check how much time it passes since when Helix effect disappears and you land it again. Ideally this gap should be zero. Check timings with the Debuffed addon and make sure you cast like 1 second before it expires.

3) Build a Poison II set and keep it up for all of the fight, that's approx ~50k more damage on each run. That's if you can reach the 100hp/tic threshold of course.

4) For several reasons, it's risky to do normal SCs (Immanence Fire, Immanence Ionohelix 1) and then MB Fire5 and Fire3 because they generate TP. But if you see you're running out of time and CoD has just a few % left, then do it! Swap your weather to fire and do a couple of Fusion SCs ending with a ionohelix. That should allow you to land enough damage to avoid timing out. And even if an add pops, the BC will be over in like a few mins, it's no biggie graviting the add and kiting for such a short time.

5) Goes without saying, but make sure you don't heal CoD during its Red-face phase. For instance if she gets that when a helix just expired, that's a lot of precious damage you're losing (because you can't cast helix during that phase, CoD would absorb the damage and heal itself)

Revisiting this. Is there any chance that having adds present affect/enhance the drop rate on the mask? Thinking of Spitewarden version of Lilith HTBF. Because I've only seen the mask once (can't remember if any adds were out or not) in a simple zerg over several dozens of runs. I haven't seen anyone post or mention a double mask drop since this, so was kinda curious.

It's very unlikely. If it worked like the Lilith fight, winning once the magical threshold was reached would result in more than 2 drops.

If somebody out there sees a 3+ drop run, then it's speculation o'clock, but until then, nah.

In the Lilith fight you have to kill the adds and spires.

Someone will have to test killing the adds and keeping track how many adds were killed vs drop rate.

I was going to ask if anyone had experience killing like 5+ adds prior to killing CoD

Goal is to engage within 1 minutes of entering. You should figure out over time how long your helix lasts, for me each one is doing about 17% hp. You can predict when it will fall and be ready to reapply. I don't bother with skillchaining, magic bursting, or shadows. Just ride stoneskin and reapply helix when it wears. If you have a TH friend, have them hit it at 1-2% at the end while you t5 it down. It really is kind of a long but very easy fight.

Are the number of adds that can be popped limited by difficulty?

Is there a HP % at which it will stop calling adds? It feels to me like it doesn't call adds under 10% on VE/E