Arebati V20

SO group is on Arebati V20. I am on RNG and have the recommended Last Stand gearset, but am not doing big dmg it seems, getting from 13-17k on Last Stand with AM3 up and WS at 2k TP. Any advice or tips is greatly appreciated.
Thanks

Please provide more information.
What is your party setup?
What buffs are you using (rolls, songs, bubbles)?
What does your gear look like? (you say "Recommended Last Stand gearset" but I'm not sure what that is. i.e. is Nyame ranked?) I assume it's this
What weapon are you using with Last Stand?
Are you using max Hover Shot?

Need a bit more context to diagnose, but it just looks like you're not running the correct buffs and/or not using Hover Shot, or getting it reset from a misfired shot.

Hover Shot is pretty key
Night and day difference
Only cleared once found a RNG that was doing it

If you're on RNG for Arebati....I gotta say Last Stand is a Last Resort. Leave that for the COR, and Ride Coronach/Detonator, the latter at high value TP (2k+).

Buuuki nailed down pretty much anything else because to give you true critique, we're gonna need more info.

Look forward to hearing more- this is one fight I do truly enjoy as RNG...and now medically am not allowed to RUN ;) Legit props to anyone who regularly tanks The Ice Kitty because her aura has given me grand mal seizures!

https://www.bg-wiki.com/ffxi/Talk:Arebati#Vengeance_20
We have been using this strat
Anyone else have input about Coronach/Detonator vs Last Stand for RNG?
Thanks again

Seeing some conflicting info on Last Stand gear sets too, and what to main, Gleti, Perun, or Ter Dagger

Cor is on Last Stand. If Rng is on Last Stand too, who is breaking the WS wall.

So did a fast run-thru of the core aspects of the strats posted...and all I gotta say is YIKES. Hate management...where is it happening? They expect a Bard to just during 60 seconds of Shadowbind to move to 2nd in the overall hate list so the Faaz sticks on them...with a full-throated Ranger going ham with Arma AM3 combined with Last Stand WS spam?

Usage of Coronach and Annihilator has allowed me to attack with complete reckless abandon on multiple Arebatis, v15 thru v25. The only variance I make is that on v25 attempts somewhere between 25% and 40% I switch to Pinaka- but its flat out not viable to use such a high-enmity weapon from the start in this fight.

The TP phase aftermath of Annihilator is often under-estimated, but in reality is extremely potent. Combine this with the ability to spam Coronach at 1k TP for damage between 22k-37k in my experience, and Detonators at 2k+ easily topping 40k with max Hover Stacks. And then the real superstar of my suggestion- Coronach's hate management tools simply enable maxxing effort in all other types of damage from the RNG. The only major risk you will experience is with aura up avoiding back-2-back Coronachs, or Coronach>Wildfire in either direction as the COR re-applies aftermath, as these will create Darkness Skillchains and massive heals. Simple to avoid while paying attention; easy to have happen on accident if one gets too rhythmic rather than mindful.

There are also voluminous options to your party setup, depending on what your group finds to be your issues. Just a couple common options that might be worth experimenting with, esp. if your group happens to have an MVP-level player on either:

-replace your SCH or WHM for a PLD main healer. They can easily maintain #2 on the hate list behind the RUN tank, and be both main healer and hold the Faaz. This will require more damage from your RNG and COR both, as loss of Embrava does matter.

-swapping of GEO for RDM. This gives Dia3(+light shot), Flurry2, and again a great method of handling the add with minimal interference to your damage-dealing.

Another suggestion I often make, but you likely already do- I find many CORs are just so set in muscle memory on Chaos/Sam that they never even contemplate other options. I have preferred Chaos/Rogue on Arebati for a long time now- with Crooked still spent on Chaos, but both RNG and COR in solid +crit midshot sets and a solid Rogue's Roll can approach 90% crit rate, and you really won't miss the STP in this situation.

Some very good info yall we are trying again tomorrow in the AM and are hoping to take some of these pointers into play for the win.

Are you guys sure there is a WS wall on Veng+20? I could be misremembering, but I don't recall there being one when I did it (was a very long time ago). Also went back to check Mischief's comments when these fights came out, and the only time I am seeing him mention it is during V25:

V25 has a wall, v20 does not.

So should Rng still be on Coro instead of Last Stand then if no wall?

My greatest issue with RNG using Last Stand in this fight is Enmity, never has been a WS wall. In my opinion, in this fight's v25 version, its on the COR to handle staying out of the RNG's way with proper WS selection, not the other way around.

Not to mention I really find Last Stand without Fomalhaut to be very Underwhelming compared to other options properly geared/buffed. Last Stand has just sadly been the go-to answer for our job for 5+ years now, and folks aren't flexible enough to try other things.

We do not pewpew with a Naegling, there are other WSs.

Yes the idea is hate management. DPS check is not that high on v20. He can sprinkle in LS but leaning on Relic simplifies everything.

Just be careful not to Coro > Coro as that will make darkness and heal it.

as stated above:

*during aura*

As well as Coronach>Wildfire and Wildfire>Coronach...and Wildfire>Wildfire if you are gonna ride that bgwiki suggestion and have both RNG and COR using Armageddons.

I don't like this strategy for a variety of reasons, but there's more than one way to clear these so I won't be super critical of it. But I want to point out some things that are a little off with the strat. There's a lot that are weird/headscratchers:

RNG -

makes no mention of using Hover Shot. I assume it's implied that you should be using it, but for some people it should be spelled out.
I also think RNG should not be using Last Stand as well, unless he happens to not have Annihilator. The reduced enmity generation from Coronach is essential for the high numbers of damage you should be pulling in. IIRC back on V20, neither me nor the COR used Last Stand; we used Coronach + Detonator. The latter is even more important for your setup and strat because there is no way you are attack capped with those songs/bubbles, so Last Stand is simply weaker than both COR+RNG using Detonator for the +100% attack boost. I'd drop Last Stand altogether and use Detonator on both jobs.

The strategy also mentions to use Camouflage, which IMO is a complete waste of an ability and potential RD reset proc on Double Shot. If you have level 25 Hover Shot active (you should), then you have -50 enmity built up from stacks, so Camouflage does absolutely nothing for your hate (unless if has some mechanic where it bypasses -50 enmity). The Strategy also asks the RNG to Shadowbind (which is fine), but that does risk not getting Double Shot reset on a RD, so that should be taken into consideration (more on that later).

The RNG needs to be riding Double Shot for as long as possible. Don't bother using JAs like Barrage/Camouflage until after RD is used because that eats up a potential proc for RD to hit the guaranteed reset on Double Shot. Also, if you have the +3 empyrean hat on RNG, you should be using it during Double Shot. This piece has a unique enmity down effect applied to the Double Shot, further reducing your enmity on RNG. This piece *does* stack with Dirge/Hover shot's enmity-50 (as a separate step). Will definitely help if you are riding DS as much as you should be.

BRD - reading both strats, I do not like the song rotation here if I am being frank. On the first strat, it uses Minne, which I don't feel is entirely necessary (more on why later) for the RNG + COR. If you're using Shadowbind the moment it pops and banking on the BRD to pull hate off the RNG (GL with that), then you assume the RNG isn't likely to get hit much. Also, giving your shooters defensive songs for a fight where only a small part of it the Raaz is out hitting is a HUGE loss to your DPS. This is why I think your damage is so low, you are playing way too safe and not hitting hard enough.

In the second strat, the BRD uses Dirge on both the COR+RNG, but only the COR needs Dirge, because Dirge does not stack with Hover Shot enmity reduction at 25 stacks, so it's literally a wasted song on the RNG. I would drop Dirge from the RNG and give him either an AGI Etude or a Prelude/Minuet, based on needs. The COR absolutely does need Dirge as he will pull hate after hitting the wall later in the fight.

Also, if the BRD is kiting the add and tank gets full dispelled, this is the most dangerous time to wipe, since RUN is most vulnerable. It really hard for BRDs to kite and then come back to the group and apply songs on the tank while getting hit. IMO, that's too much going on.

SCH - YMMV, but the V25 strat uses a PLD instead to tank the Raaz. I honestly think you can drop SCH in V20 because it's only here for Cures/Regen and Caper, all really related to keeping either the tank alive and keeping the party from dying to the Raaz. If you bring a PLD instead of having the BRD try to force getting hate on Raaz without people dying and then kite for several minutes, you eliminate that entire ordeal altogether. PLD cures RUN with Majesty stuff, and stays second on hate list above the RNG. You could even have the RNG use Decoy shot pre-75 to build up the PLD's hate, then switch to Hover Shot the moment Raaz pops, so you can guarantee the PLD has hate on the Raaz. From that point on, you don't need to worry about defensive songs or bubbles on any backline job because PLD can handle the Raaz. Also, this means RNG doesn't need to bother using a JA in Shadowbind because the PLD will get the Raaz, and also means the BRD can stand with the group and rebuff the RUN when he loses buffs to Glassy Nova, making the RUNs survival easier (Carols back on the tank are super helpful).

If you must use SCH, so be it; it doesn't hurt your strategy, but it does make things more challenging. So that part is up to you.

GEO - If you do what I suggest above, you can drop Barrier entirely and use Indi Fury, GEO-AGI, entrust Frailty on the tank for pre-75 (entrust kind of doesn't matter since you prebuff them). This will give you even more DPS, which is what you are lacking based on your OP. During Bolster, you can throw up a Dematerialized Frailty on Arebati and ride that out with Indi Fury, and then when that bubble dies, throw up GEO-AGI. IIRC, GEO-Frailty with Bolster still is a huge DPS increase even with nerfed Geomancy. After Bolster wears, back to Fury/AGI.

I'm going to go contrary to some and say that if your RUN is very good, you don't need to bother removing aura. IMO, it's more work and takes away from your dps to focus primarily on that, especially when aura can/will come back up later, and future removal will become even harder. On all of my clears, we never bothered removing it since it just makes removing the next one harder. I would say it's better to keep a level 1 aura up throughout the fight, and then when things get harder later on with Regen + add, you could choose to remove the aura then, since it won't be an upgraded aura but a base one. Just my 2c here.

I'm sure someone like Maletaru will share some of his notes from experience too. I am just giving feedback based on your original post and the strat listed on the wiki.

Probably not a good move for v20, but to piggyback on Buuki's thought of just leaving the aura up, I found that with Aura UP, I could stand at perfect True Shot distance for Bow with zero of Arebati's attacks hitting me. The TP move selection with aura up vs aura down is different.

And btw Buuki- come to Bahamut and let's be RNG soulmates. That critique was perfect.

More like I failed so many times (the count is probably over 40 or so) and made so many mistakes as the RNG that I learned the hard way what did and did and did not work. More trial by fire than anything xD

I was the RNG who:

-disconnected at 1% on V20, returned to all my buffs gone, causing a loss
-said on KI2 when Arebati was 49% "we don't need dirge on the COR, he'll never pull hate with this health" then the COR pulled hate and we wiped at 29%, causing a loss
-Shadowbind(ed) the Raaz in between me and the PLD on V25, but ran too far on my Hover Shot and the bound Raaz Triple attack G-checked me to the floor, causing a loss on an otherwise guaranteed win
-did double Coronach during aura, causing it to heal for 80k, and then we timed out at 5%, causing a loss
-blew all of his non-essential JAs pre-RD and then wondered why he never got Double Shot back up on RD resets

Those experiences I am now obligated to pass on to my fellow RNG. Don't be a Buukki.

I don't know what you mean by this. The pros in the RNG forum can easily tell you which is superior, but I am curious why Gleti's or Ternion Dagger +1 would be better than R15 Perun +1? 60 Ratk 8 agi vs 10~15agi/5wsd on ternion or 5% crit 15 agi on gleti's knife. If you're suffering from low attack, I would think the axe is definitely better.

The set I pulled I just searched the most recent "RNG Last Stand" set (sorted by date desc) using item sets feature on the left hand pane of this website.

The Gleti mention was, I assume, due to the crit rate since that posted strat featured Armageddon AM3 builds. 5% crit rate + 15 AGI still doesn't seem like the best call though, even if focusing on crit builds though (Oneiros Knife for 10% crit damage+ would be preferred).

And I agree with your (and Cele's) analysis anyway, Annihilator/Coronach is the way.

Oh you're right, for aura removal. I see now. still, thats just a swap in for aura, dont need to main it for last stand? it doesn't crit

Aura removal, as well as what I assume is some desire to simply add white damage from more crit + Empy AM3 procs on normal /ra. Which IS pretty strong, I view it basically like a mini-WS on a good number of your normal ranged attack rounds. Shifts some more damage toward your normals as opposed to WS, but you're correct that Last Stand does not benefit (except from the AGI+15).

However: (1) that causes enmity issues, as you and Cele so rightly pointed out, and (2) even if focusing on that ranged white damage, I'd want crit dmg+ over crit rate. And if you REALLY want to swap in crit rate for aura removal, yeah, just swap it in for aura (that still might not be the worst idea, I guess).

To OP: The move that activates his aura will still hit you at trueshot range and it will be very bad so wait until it is out in order to do this. If you managed to get the aura off unintentionally then you need to back up because he'll make you eat floor pizza as as soon as he uses it again. That's why he bolded the UP.

IDK sounds like Buukki learns from his mistakes and gets wins. Maybe do be a Buukki.

ok see this is the one empyrean I never made because I was too lazy but wish I did, so I don't speak from experience with it and almost never remember how good it is for white damage shooting. Good reminder.

While I still main Perun+1 w/ Annihilator, I'd feel that Coronach provides a better argument for Gleti's mainhand, with AGI/DEX modifiers. I still agree that the raw +60ratk wins (along with -7emnity, 45racc, and 4 stp), just a thought b/c the debate of offhand when in non-Odyssey situations where you have a subjob became a fun conversation for me...either the Ternion+1 or Gleti's offhand vs a /DRG setup if purely shooting, etc.

Perun+1(R15) is truly an ideal mainhand weapon for the 100% shooting situations, unless you are committed to a magical WS like Trueflight.

humm...I probably should read the modifiers more so I know these things. Completely forgot about that weird dex, it does actually make sense for Annihilator. And not that it matters too much (or maybe it does), but ranked Gleti's Knife has Subtle Blow II, as does Sherida Earring and ranked Ikenga's Hat. The gloves also have 15 SB1. That actually can matter a little bit in helping the RUN not eat so many TP moves, especially if DS/TS are constantly hitting the Lion through the fight. Guess I never noticed the usefulness there, but good call out, much better dagger on rng than i gave it credit for

Just give Rangers 4 hands and we'll stop complainin'.

The other advantage of Perun is that you can wear a tougher preshot set if you don't have flurry and still have capped snapshot. Because the pig doesn't exactly tickle.


I'd like it if they would remove the position lock for WSs if you have Velocity and Hover Shot both active. It would be nice if SE would disincentivize cheating by taking the rewards away from it.

You could say the same thing about literally every addon in the game "I wish SE would implement this so I don't feel incentivized to cheat"

I'm not saying they couldn't do some QOL things to help non-cheaters, but you could just...not cheat...the option is on the table to play by the rules, they don't need to change the game to force you to not cheat, you've always had that choice, you just chose to cheat because it's easier/increases your DPS.