Yall always argue the dumbest ***
Are you really going to argue that you dont enjoy arguing the dumbest ***like it doesnt happen constantly.
Most Worthless Moves In FFXI?
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Most Worthless Moves In FFXI?
Carbuncle.Maletaru said: » Or, instead of this nonsense, you make a macro that does /pet "Smithing Breath" <t> and accomplish the same thing. It should also do more than 800 dmg, so the threshold is higher than what smiting breath offers. I use Dread Spikes and Absorbs a lot! Most DRKs are using those spells frequently. I even use Tractor sometimes, and it is super useful when that situation occurs.
As for Smiting Breath, there is no need to argue over this. I think it is established how terrible it is.
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Absorbs on their own aren't that great, but if you combine then with Dark Seal and Neather Void they become very nice. I usually like to use Drain III as it's functionally Absorb-HP, for enhanced survivability but if that's not an issue then Absorb-STR or VIT is solid. People would go nuts over a buff that gave 50~52 of a stat (Liberator makes it even more).
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I use Abs-Acc pretty often, even without DS-NV. Not a huge buff, but DRK is the least accurate job in the game, so any little bit helps. Never checked the /checkparam value to see what it takes. Probably like 20 acc? Still useful imo.
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Carbuncle.Nynja said: » Carbuncle.Maletaru said: » Or, instead of this nonsense, you make a macro that does /pet "Smithing Breath" <t> and accomplish the same thing. It should also do more than 800 dmg, so the threshold is higher than what smiting breath offers. My smiting breath comment got way more traction than I anticipated though, It was mostly tongue in cheek since it's such a niche use (though I do use it in that scenario) Cerberus.Kylos said: » I even use Tractor sometimes, and it is super useful when that situation occurs. Would you say you use Tractor more than 6% of the time? The situation where tractor is needed, it is the ONLY option
the super specific niche situation where: a pld/thf mob uses 2hr AND its at 1% HP AND the person fighting it is a drg AND theyre paying attention to not just be smacking it for 30 seconds AND none of the mages or cor or staff-cleavers are paying attention finish it off themselves THEN smiting breath has a use
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Why are you stanning such a worthless move so hard lmao
You were literally just comparing aspir (the spell, not the samba), dread spikes, absorb line etc to smiting breath. Would you say you use Aspir over 6% of the time?
I've literally never cast absorb-acc or absorb-attri in my entire life. Would you say you use Esuna more than 6% of the time? I think maybe you need to finish reading the entire comment and understand the overall message. List of people who play FFXI who think Aspir is a worthless spell:
Maletaru
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Cerberus.Kylos said: » However, I'm only adding moves that can be adequately explained as to why they are worthless at least 95% of the time. How often do you cast Aspir? I noticed you haven't answered my question yet. Is it 10% of the time you have access to the spell? For me, WAY more than 95% of the time I'm on GEO, BLM, and DRK I do not cast Aspir. You can do this with a shitload of other stuff BTW. Would you say 95% of the time, Flat Blade is worthless? Seraph Blade? Split Shot? Sniper Shot? Slug Shot? Detonator? Numbing Shot? Wildfire? Fast Blade? Burning Blade? Shining Blade? Circle Blade? Spirits Within? Requiescat? Wasp Sting? Viper Bite? Shadowstitch? Do you think, 95% of the time, Stone II is useless? Esuna? Comet? Meteor? Death? Celerity? Penury? Parsimony? Alacrity? Focalization? Rapture? All the Banish spells? Cura line, Afflatus Misery, Enlight, Endark, Drains below 3, Tractor. Most of the WS, spells, and half the abilities of the game aren't used 95% of the time. You're pulling some ridiculous disingenuous Afania *** fyi
You know damn well what the intent behind those words were
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Carbuncle.Nynja said: » You're pulling some ridiculous disingenuous Afania *** fyi You know damn well what the intent behind those words were IDK, if we're going to say that Requiescat isn't worthless because it has a use on like...2 Caturaes, then I think we probably want to re-visit the "Smiting Breath is only used in extremely niche situations" narrative. Just trying to make sure we're being intellectually honest here. Aspir is extremely niche and used exceedingly rarely in actual content. Ditto basically everything I listed above. The previous bar was "Is there some tiny niche where you would need this spell/ability"...including nonsense like "it's the best WS you can use for 3 levels" so...I don't think we were operating under 95% conditions for most of the rest of the discussion. Anything that had any tiny sliver of "usefulness" was passed by, so I don't think now's the time to say something is too niche. edit: I guess Requiescat isn't the best example because it could open/close some SC, but you get my point. There are piles of shitty WS that never get used, but the list would boil down to "every WS except the 2 that are actually used" if we tried to look at things that are actually used often I'm not continuing this discussion because its *** mentally challenged to justify smiting breath as useful because "you dont cast aspir more than 6% of the time"
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Lakshmi.Buukki said: » I use Abs-Acc pretty often, even without DS-NV. Not a huge buff, but DRK is the least accurate job in the game, so any little bit helps. Never checked the /checkparam value to see what it takes. Probably like 20 acc? Still useful imo. It's the same as the other Absorb-Stat spells. https://www.bg-wiki.com/ffxi/Category:Absorb_Spell At level 99 your base is going to be 22, then multiply by potency which can be +25% (without Liberator), +27 total. NV adds a separate multiplier of +50%, JSE raises that to +95%. Dark Seal adds a pretty substantial +duration effect and guarantees it lands, this is why we stack it with NV. Between those two you can have one Absorb spell be max potency full time. Carbuncle.Maletaru said: » Cerberus.Kylos said: » I even use Tractor sometimes, and it is super useful when that situation occurs. Would you say you use Tractor more than 6% of the time? What Nynja said. When Tractor is needed, it is really needed. It can mean the difference between winning or losing a fight, or even ending a run altogether. It is an exceptional spell when the situation calls for it. That makes it very far from worthless. It can be the single biggest move you will see in an event. A worthless move isn’t about percentages. This is about those moves that are never/barely useful in any scenario. You seem to be arguing with the wrong logic. A move can get used 1% of the time and still be super powerful when called upon. I believe you took that "95% of the time" line far too literally. I believe we have gotten to the point where some of us are really trying to find more moves that are worthless, but have hit the ceiling. Most of the moves I previously listed had little or unconvincing arguments against their inclusions. I’m going to update the original post later today with those moves and a disclaimer that it is subjective and even those moves aren’t 100% worthless. I have seen some asking what the point of this thread was. Did I have some master plan to bundle together all the worst moves so I could forward it to SE on the official forum? Or perhaps I did it for the memes? As one person said. Neither of those. I was looking to create a constructive thread to spark discussion on a topic that interested me. I believe the discussion was mostly amicable, productive, and I don’t know about others, but I learned something. Thanks for that! I’m going to move on from this. Have a great weekend. Carbuncle.Maletaru said: » Phoenix.Iocus said: » It's a job ability designed to do damage and you'd always gain more dps by switching to another target than hitting a global cooldown that may or may not finish off this specific mob type. How is this more DPS? The GCD is totally irrelevant since the time it takes to walk over to the next mob will be longer than the GCD, plus you're ignoring the fact that someone has to kill that low HP PLD/THF later, so in terms of overall kill speed you'll be much worse off by having to switch BACK to this same mob later on, walk over to it, and tap it with your stick. In the other scenario, it's already dead and takes nobody any more time to kill. I think the absolute fastest way for this mob to die and the group as a whole to move on to the next mob is for the DRG to pop a Smiting Breath. And it doesn't kill the mob. What about then? Because people are telling you it's a damage move that can be resisted and is bad to begin with. If this damage source could be harnessed into something useful, at least some people would have done so already and be singing its praises that play DRG. Even more so than regular pet jobs, DRGs have no possibility of their wyvern getting pet relevant buffs. This has aged poorly, restoring breath has not. It's not poor DRG, it's don't waste your time on something that can't be enhanced to have real benefit without SE making adjustments. If you have any gear woes, this is not where to make them worse. “Call Wyvern” is what I hear the most complain on DRG. That 20 min call is straight the most “useless” for most fight. Other pet job can remake a pet within 5 mins top, not 20…. They should at least match that. And no I don’t play DRG, not even 99 but I hear plenty of.
Phoenix.Iocus said: » Even more so than regular pet jobs, DRGs have no possibility of their wyvern getting pet relevant buffs. Empathy (which you'd expect all DRGs to have fully merited) copies 5 buffs from the DRG to the wyvern at a time, each time spirit link is used
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You misinterpreted. It's a silly argument but you got it wrong.
Beast Pup and Comp are "pet rolls" DRG will "never" get bst/comp for the wyvern. You "could" roll dancers, tact, and chaos, but there is zero chance of that. And you may say well the wyvern gets sam/fighter, that's better! Is it though. But the wyvern is a useless damage pet anyway. (compared to bst/pup/smn) So pet rolls are irrelevant.
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Drg actually gets the most pet buffs due to that, its just as a pet it's functionally weakest one so it doesnt really matter what it gets, just needs to stay alive 99% of the time
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Even if you did transfer pet rolls to your wyvern, it would do nothing, since none of them will boost Breath Damage. It's a unique ability that can only be enhanced with breath+ gear/augments; as far as I'm concerned, there isn't a buff that entrances breath damage. The only thing a wyvern's tp gain matters for is to improve the spirit Link transfer of TP to the master.
Empathy is really just designed to transfer defensive buffs to your wyvern to improve their survivability, since nothing offensive you give them will make any real difference . For example, on something like Xevioso or Bumba, you can prebuff DRG in the lobby with carols and minnes and then transfer all of the buffs to your wyvern, then repeat via RD until they're stacked on buffs. The buffs will carry into the battle, since the lobby dispel effect doesn't apply to -colures or buffs on an actual pet.
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You could always copy mantra! And/Or just stay in wyvern hp+/% gear and heal the lizard to that new max
Why anyone would do this outside of messing around though I don't know
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Asura.Eiryl said: » DRG will "never" get bst/comp for the wyvern. You "could" roll dancers, tact, and chaos, but there is zero chance of that. I've played with DRGs with the gear to have the wyvern safely tank NMs while the party recovered from death. In that situation, if there's a COR in the party, Companion's Roll would be the best thing you could do. Super niche? Heck yeah. Carbuncle.Maletaru said: » edit: I guess Requiescat isn't the best example because it could open/close some SC, but you get my point. Yeah, any WS with lv3 SC properties is probably going to have some practical uses. For example for Requiescat, it's one of only two options (along with lol Swift Blade) that does a solo 2-step lv3 SC with Expiacion. Pretty useful for a Tizona BLU. Cerberus.Kylos said: » I even use Tractor sometimes, and it is super useful when that situation occurs. Yeah, even in modern events like Odyssey seg farming or Dyna Divergence, we've seen some clutch uses of Tractor from our DRKs especially. Not used super often, but when it's helpful it's REALLY helpful.
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Phoenix.Capuchin said: » Cerberus.Kylos said: » I even use Tractor sometimes, and it is super useful when that situation occurs. Yeah, even in modern events like Odyssey seg farming or Dyna Divergence, we've seen some clutch uses of Tractor from our DRKs especially. Not used super often, but when it's helpful it's REALLY helpful. We used Tractor a lot when we did some seg farming in lower Sheols with the THF lockpicking in between for Moogle Mastery tiers. We'd send 5 people to kill stuff and pop NMs while the solo THF went off and picked chests. Mimics don't share party hate with the THF once they pop (so long as you don't go on their hate list), but a THF will never lose hate on a Mimic ever, even if he logs out (I think). If he raises back up within range, it will just Draw him back in and kill him. Killing some Mimics could take over 5 minutes, which is valuable farming time that could be spent elsewhere. We decided it ended up being faster just to let the THF die and tractor/raise him to continue his lockpicking shenanigans. The only thing was making sure someone subbed DRK to have access to it.
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Sorry, I didn't mean to trigger all this storytelling about Tractor.
Obviously Tractor has a unique use case. Either everyone completely missed my point or you're just being obtuse. When you're playing the game, 99.95% of the time you don't cast Tractor. This is why I found it stupid to say that we're talking about things that are useless 95% of the time, when most WS, spells, and half the JA of the game fall into that category. Earlier in this thread there were statements like "Well, TECHNICALLY Burning Blade is the strongest Fire WS you can use before you get Red Lotus Blade, so it's TECHNCALLY not useless because you can use it for 3 levels" but that mentality was totally thrown out the window when it came to other abilities. Meanwhile, spells that are used once every several months for one circumstance on one fight are given a pass. Just seems like we're not applying the same bar across the board, that's all I was pointing out. I realize that Tractor is quite useful when it's useful. I cast it all the time because I'm a scrub and wipe all the time. It still doesn't get used 99+% of the time. “Youre all obtuse” says the guy who justified smiting breath being useful because of an incredibly niche situation that required no less than four conditions to be sated before its considered useful and then compared it to actually useful spells like aspir, absorbs, dread spikes etc because theyre not used “often enough”
Carbuncle.Maletaru said: » When you're playing the game, 99.95% of the time you don't cast Tractor. Carbuncle.Maletaru said: » It still doesn't get used 99+% of the time. Kylos may have applied the standard of "95% of the time" so you can check with him what he meant specifically, but frankly, this quote is quite obtuse. You're not just running around FFXI freely "using Tractor" just to be using it. There has to be a situation in which that specific scenario could benefit from the move in the first place. The number of uses in THAT particular scenario is high, because Tractor is one of a kind. Raise doesn't get used UNTIL someone is dead. Stun isn't needed unless there's a move you want to stun. etc. You wouldn't reason "99% of the time I play FFXI I don't use Raise, only when someone dies". That's exactly the point. It serves a specific purpose when it's needed, not arbitrarily across your playing time. Maybe I can phrase this another way. How many times when someone is dead have you wished you had Tractor so you could move someone out of place to raise them safely? Or how many times have you actually used it in that scenario when you could? Now ask yourself how many times have you ever been in a situation where a PLD or THF mob uses Invincible/Perfect Dodge (Actually, RNGs and CORs can hit THF just fine with a ranged attack, NIN too with Daken) at 1% and you wished you had a DRG to Smiting Breath to finish it off? There's probably 45 other options that are better than Smiting Breath in that situation, and if THAT's the only use case anyone can think of, the move is absolutely cooked.
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