BLM Sortie Do's/donts

The SU5 staff is not useless by any means because it has other wonderful stats on it and you're making an assumption about how much I paid for the staff. I got it for less than a SU4 and it's signed, so why wouldn't I take it? My thoughts behind not unlocking vido were because I wouldn't be using the WS on any bosses if I'm getting prime AM3 up, and I probably wouldn't ever need to WS anything outside of bosses for AM3. I also probably would never use BLM outside of sortie especially since I've already cleared Ongo V25.

Thinking objectively means removing yourself from your situation and use that peanut brain to think through all possible scenarios. Not sure why I thought anyone here would've been capable of that

I answered your question objectively, and I might add empirically.

Yes prime staff is all you need.

That being said, your take on unlocking the very useful weaponskill vidohunir is objectively stupid

Vidohunir benefits the whole party (RDM,GEO,SCH etc.) while your AM3 only benefits you. There is worthwhile debate on what mobs the debuff would even stick, but we definitely noticed it helping SCH Kaustra on mage Aminon (despite that being a bit of an outdate approach now). Not unlocking the WS is a bit of a "*** you, got mine" approach to BLM.

This has to be a troll post, there's absolutely no *** way.

The AF boots don't take up a WEAPON SLOT to block damage, they also have DT-11, massive MDB, and bis meva. They also have extremely high macc and dark magic skill, and the empy set bonus. Even if they didn't have any Mana Wall on them, you should be upgrading them if you want to play BLM.

The BLM Su5 staff has essentially 0 stats that matter at all other than the Mana Wall, which is a meme stat. It should never be worn for any reason other than tanking, which is like priority #15 when building a BLM.

Vido, while also having some nice SC properties, also REDUCES THE ENEMY'S MDB, a stat which is extremely relevant for a BLM, whose primary damage comes from comparing their MAB to the enemy's MDB. Do you think you're only going to get 3,000 TP every 3 minutes? Have you played BLM before?

Finally: using club/shield or club/club for BLM is generally ill-advised, ironically because of Vidohunir, but also because Myrkr is insanely useful to keep your MP up. Unless you have enough support from your party (hint: you won't) to keep your MP up at all times without the use of AF body, you're going to need Myrkr to maintain your MP at higher levels.

BLM has a little trait called "Occult Acumen" which gives you TP for casting nukes. What are you going to use your TP for when you're wielding clubs? Moonlight? Or are you just going to throw away all your TP for absolutely no reason, wasting a valuable resource?

OK, maybe you're going to wield the Su5 for...some reason...let's compare the nukes:

Su5:
MP+170
Mdmg+310
Macc 50/269

Prime St4:
Mdmg+310 (AM3:+50)
Macc 30/269
INT+30
MAB+70 (AM3:+30)

Hmmmm, I wonder which one will perform better...It's impossible to tell, really.

You won’t need myrkr at all when bosses in sortie would melt so fast… during runs to next area just stand in your geos indi refresh and you will be set by the next boss. Knock dual club but I’ve tried laev, opashoro, and dual club. Not seeing the better benefit of staff.

Ongo and Aminon last longer than 30 seconds.
/SCH is better than /DNC
Vido helps all nukers in your party

Staff is just flat out better than BLM/DNC with clubs, even if you never use Myrkr.

If we are doing aminon, I’d be drk sub. This thread started with sortie, where ongo doesn’t exist.

Sch can shattersoul to apply the same debuff vido would. You could also swap occult with a staff on prior to the fight, shattersoul or vido, then go dual wielding.

2 notes about Vido

1. Vido is magic, so it can't miss. Shartersoul while being 3 hits, I have missed it numerous times.

2. You don't need the mythic weapon to unlock it.

My personal, objective opinion is that you can use whatever weapon/weapons you want for dealing the damage. There is no hard requirement for damage in this content.

Separating that out, there is absolutely no reason NOT to unlock Vido for it's utility.

Let's exclude prime staff for a moment because we know it's BiS currently. Let's exclude R25/30 Bunzi's Rod because, say we want Myrkr. Given that, which BLM staff would you recommend, otherwise?

Are we talking in lieu of SU5 staff? In no particular order:

• marin staff +1

• Mpaca's staff

• Grioavolr

• Frikken lathi for cripes sake

Edit: Excluding all REMAs, which I would also include here if not... even Hvergelmir

Prime staff and blm mythic are an anomaly to the general rule of thumb that rema staves are subpar nuke staves when it comes to raw nuke dmg, and even mythic requires prepping an AM to push it and to top it off iirc it can still lose cause 0 INT compared to the 20~30 other staves tend to give. If you need a nuke staff basically anything from escha-zitah onwards will be better

I was looking for a more substantive recommendation. I use Su5 staff as BLM and have no problem cleaning house in Sortie as BLM.

This is also rarely discussed, but what's the impact of Magic Accuracy Skill +228/242/255/269 in this list? I don't have evidence to support this, but just as an example, I don't think the same amount of INT+ is to be treated the same when Magic Accuracy Skill varies so wildly.

Edit: typo. I use SU5 staff and have no problem cleaning house in Sortie.

Macc is important, but you take sooo much damage off the table in the form of both int and matk to use su5. Int is 4-6 times more potent than 1 mdmg on high level nukes

I’ve cleared all 9 bosses in sortie comfortably using the first 3 options I’ve listed, so I doubt you’re struggling due to a macc deficit

I understand that you're referring to Magic Accuracy. However, I'm asking if "Magic Accuracy Skill +269" is more important than lower tiers, like +228, +242, +255, etc? I don't think anyone knows the answer and just says that more INT is obviously better.

Magic accuracy skill is just another flat bonus to magic accuracy. Per se it’s 2:1 macc skill to macc. Per jp testing it’s 1:1. Regardless it’s essentially just mac.

The only time I'd use SU5 is when I want to use the Flee feet (hippo socks) and maintain a full manawall (95%). This is literally the only use I found out of the staff.

It also wasn't bad for cataclysm in dynamis if you're into that. Although that was before wicce feet +3, when I'd be using another piece. That quick swap with 100 mobs on you could cause some major issues.

But yeah, as far as sortie, would never consider using SU5.

Yes, we do know what the Magic Accuracy Skill statistic on weapons does. Matsui even provided an explanation when it was added to weapon descriptions. 1 Magic Accuracy Skill=1 Magic Accuracy:
-English Magic Accuracy Skill comments, 2013
-Japanese Magic Accuracy Skill comments, 2013

3 years later this dev post from 2016 incorrectly stated that 2 Magic Accuracy Skill=1 Magic Accuracy.

1 month afterwards, Lute's testing thoroughly debunked the dev post from 2016 finding that 1 Magic Accuracy Skill=1 Magic Accuracy:
-Lute's testing Part 1
-Lute's testing Part 2

This is not the first time a random dev has give completely incorrect data. This information is even cited on the Magic Accuracy Skill page on BG.

Edit: We also know how much magic accuracy INT gives when factoring dINT into magic accuracy calculations:
-dINT testing summary
-dINT testing data

It's all there on BG, it's not difficult to find.

I didn't test Su5 staff because I don't have one, but just assume the numbers would be dramatically lower than all of these, for reference. Bunzi was R25 at the time of the tests.

Thank you. Yes, I'm aware. Lute seems to imply that more Magic Accuracy skill raises INT ceiling (higher actual dINT being taken into consideration: https://luteff11.livedoor.blog/archives/48996507.html


Thank you for this test. Yes, I understand this much. Lute seems to imply that Magic Accuracy Skill enforces a cap on effective dINT or magic hit rate. Could you share the sets you used?

I think a more salient test would be keeping INT as consistent as possible and modifying Magic Accuracy Skill (weapon).

While I use Su5 staff in Sortie, I'm also extremely diligent about keeping -ja spell debuff applied. Of course, I am willing to accept that Su5 staff is inferior to other staves, but for superstitious reasons, I just continue to nuke in a Staff with Magic Accuracy Skill +269. In fact, I started out with R15 Laevateinn, and just got lazy.

I dunno, I think Lute is on to something. My only reason for even suggesting this is that SE opted to give us +277 Magic Accuracy Skill with Stage 5 Prime Staff. Basically, I don't think the effect of this extra tier is simply just Magic Accuracy, but some effect on dINT or level correction calculations.

Felgarr I think your quotes got all mixed up.

I hope you're not trying to imply that someone should test whether or not macc skill increases the damage you do. This is not a thing. If you want to claim it's a thing, please feel free to do some testing and attempt to prove it. Magic damage calculations are pretty well understood.

The macc skill of a weapon is just *some amount of macc*. It has no impact on your damage, other than that times when it prevents you from being resisted.

The set I used is pretty irrelevant since it was the same set for all of my weapons, but if you have some theory then it was probably something like this for MB. For non-MB, swapping Mujin for Metamorph and Agwu hands for Wicce hands. Don't quote me on that though, it was a while ago and some sets might've changed.

ItemSet 398076

Yes, my quotes and replies are correct as written. You are correct, in that I am implying that maybe Magic Accuracy Skill has an effect on damage. Again, I don't have data or proof. I did notice the magic damage calculations were updated in 2022, but no mention of Magic Accuracy Skill. Magic Damage

Regardless, I still should R30 my Mpaca's Staff and use it. I don't think I'll ever get the time to isolate a Magic Accuracy Skill test.

I just wanna add that MDB debuff caps at -50 vs enemies, idris geo un-nerfed without Bolster gives what.. -45 already? Whenever Idris GEO isn't nerfed BoG malaise already caps and makes any MDB ws debuff useless. That changes when GEO is nerfed, at 25% effectiveness idris malaise w bolster gives like -22.5MDB, -45 whem 50% effective. That's when these MDB- effects shines.
BLU Tearing Gust (learnt from Putraxia) gives an AoE -30MBD which is extremely strong when Geomancy is nerfed, although its use means u won't be using mighty guard or other Unbridled Learning spells unless u get random deal etc. but i can see it being usable in specific coordinated scenarios

Also would be curious to see how stage 3 and 4 opashoro would compete against other options..

This is not implied nor expressed in any capacity in any of Lute's testing. Magic Accuracy Skill has no correlation with dINT magic accuracy correction. The link you provided was a precursor to the dINT magic accuracy correction testing I just linked above.


No, they don't imply that at all. You are completely misreading the data and are making up this supposed correlation. In the link you provided, hit rate values were tested below the 50% hit rate point. This is why the spread between the different dINT values is only 13%. The magic accuracy they are getting from dINT correction is being halved because of their low effective hit rate, not because of a supposed cap induced by a weapon with +228 Magic Accuracy Skill.


You are ignoring why Magic Accuracy Skill was put on weapons and why they differ to begin with. It's time for a history lesson: Explanation from Matsui

The following is google translated:



Magic Accuracy Skill was implemented to add magic accuracy to weapons without taking up a stat slot so players can deal with the high magic evasion of the current content. Staves and clubs granted more Magic Accuracy Skill to complement back line jobs. Even combat oriented staves had less Magic Accuracy Skill than back line oriented staves. This design has held mostly true up until the introduction of the Prime weapons which all have +277 Magic Accuracy Skill when fully upgraded. As magic accuracy requirements have increased over the years, so too has the amount of Magic Accuracy Skill listed on weapons.

Use whatever staff you'd like, but please stop spreading these baseless rumors.

Edit:


Almace and Sequence have identical Magic Damage stats (+186). Almace has +255 Magic Accuracy Skill compared to Sequence's +242

Target: Disheveled Naraka
Mlvl 35 RDM/BLM
Equipped with only Almace R15, naked otherwise. Effective Ilvl 109, cast with Elemental Seal
Aero V: 1189 damage
Equipped with only Sequence R0, naked otherwise. Effective Ilvl 109, cast with Elemental Seal
Aero V: 1189 damage

Standard nuking set with Almace R15 in main hand
Aero V: 9612 damage
Standard nuking set with Sequence R0 in main hand
Aero V: 9612 damage

No, Magic Accuracy Skill does not contribute in any way to damage.

This is the one that matters. I guess I can try with new Null accessories but I doubt it's going to matter since basement NMs are BS evasion.

EDIT: i can hit 1370 acc without food on SCH with only 7 more MLs to go. my wife's ranged acc set for basement bosses is 1700 with food, im not thinking 3 hits is going to matter.

Useless EDIT: PLD can hit 1500+ with enlight 2, probably 1600+ with ML50. Would you pick Shattersoul on PLD over RUN? probably not.


Well get to it and take good notes so you can defend your findings against others.

If an enemy has 100 MDB, the lowest they can be taken down to is 50 MDB, so yes, the -50 is the cap in this case...

If an enemy has 150 MDB, wouldn't the cap be 100 then? So having Bolster Malaise (-90 MDB) and Vido (-10 MDB) would bring it down 100, assuming there's no geo resistance in there.

That's the correct version.

MDB bottoms out at 50. It can be reduced TO 50, from any known value.

We know essentially zero NM MDB values though, so. No one ever checks MDB onry physical stats.

Apparently longhorned been on the grind, 4/8 Sortie nms have 100 MDB, probaly safe bet they all do. So -50 cap and cap at 50 mean the same thing.

The only way you will reliably hit basement NM's unbuffed is if you have some PATH A nyame r30 (+70 acc per piece) and can use the gazu bracelets +1 for great hands slot acc. Also landing frost would help bring their evasion down (Frost will not work with Burn, so Frost, WS, then run back and burn).

Excellent. Thank you for putting my speculation to rest. Time to put RP into Mpaca's staff.

Also, just to clarify, my intention was to ask pointed, pertinent questions. SE is under no obligation to reveal to us how these things work under the hood, and the extra tier of skill provided to Stage 5 Primes, made me very curious.

My premise has been simple: I can already occasionally Tier-3 nuke for 99k as BLM, so I was looking for a specific justification to upgrade beyond my Su5 staff. Mpaca's staff is probably worth the effort, but personally, I don't think Stage 5 Prime Staff. Anyway, staff-banter is for another thread.

Thanks for the confirmation.

Stage 5 prime is ridiculous in its magic dmg. Against the highest level mobs, that extra magic accuracy skill counts for a lot. Then you have a MAB aftermath on top..

Worth it over a Laeva? Is any toy "worth it" over something you can get a lot cheaper? That's up to you to decide.