Prime WS Information, Testing, Discussion
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Prime WS Information, Testing, Discussion
Hmm, I think you might be right there. Wasn't paying attention to the mob types. The 25% does line up close enough. Thanks for the help!
Anillla said: » but doesn't look like using gear to increase crit damage had any impact. General question, but does this scenario even exist in FFXI, where something can crit but isn't modified by crit gear/traits? That alone would seem to defy game logic and imply something else is going on, right? Outside of a bug, or a ja, nothing can crit that doesn't state it can crit
They were simply wrong in their assessment. (There might be blue spells that can crit and critical damage plus gear doesn't work, but I'm not certain) ((Foot Kick / Sickle Slash etc)) Lakshmi.Buukki said: » General question, but does this scenario even exist in FFXI, where something can crit but isn't modified by crit gear/traits? That alone would seem to defy game logic and imply something else is going on, right? I believe this is the only exception. 
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[66 days between previous and next post]Maru Testing :
Str: 192 Dex: 201 Mnk/WAR Mlvl 50 Mithra No WS dmg / No PDL gear on / No food 1k : Min 6180 Max 6482 1k Fotia Neck : Min 6379 Max 6689 3k : Min 23917 Max 25068 3k Fotia Neck : Min 24113 Max 25274
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If I'm using my old spreadsheet right: 3.1 - 12.2
would be helpful to have 1k (or 3k) with an etude or stat bubble to get the stat growth edit: I was not using it right For the test my hand to hand skill was 501 not sure if that matters. I heard hand to hand skill might add base damage for hand to hand. I had +1 JSE ear on for +11 skill.
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Only the first hit of every attack round was getting triple damage with the prime hand 2 hand.
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Do any other Prime Weaponskills other than Origin have a hidden effect?
Not really a hidden effect if its in the ws description.
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Galkapryme said: » Do any other Prime Weaponskills other than Origin have a hidden effect? The drain/apsir effect on Origin isn't a hidden effect, its just how the WS operates. Even Catastrophe lists the drain effect in the WS's description. Relics did have "hidden" effects such as Catastrophe giving haste. It was only "hidden" on the lvl 75 version. After that, they were listed as "Aftermath:" effects. Cata and Origin are pretty unique with the drain. All other primes are just strictly damage only. However there are other WS's that give effects such as Guillotine and Tachi:Gekko having a silence effect. Plenty of Stun WS's also. Shiva.Humpo said: » Cata and Origin are pretty unique with the drain. All other primes are just strictly damage only. However there are other WS's that give effects such as Guillotine and Tachi:Gekko having a silence effect. Plenty of Stun WS's also. Ukko's Fury applies Slow, Rudra's Storm applies Gravity, and so on and so on. Lots of WS have secondary effects - empy WSs having some was a major issue on Alexander HTMV, which retaliates against debuffs. Lili said: » Shiva.Humpo said: » Cata and Origin are pretty unique with the drain. All other primes are just strictly damage only. However there are other WS's that give effects such as Guillotine and Tachi:Gekko having a silence effect. Plenty of Stun WS's also. Ukko's Fury applies Slow, Rudra's Storm applies Gravity, and so on and so on. Lots of WS have secondary effects - empy WSs having some was a major issue on Alexander HTMV, which retaliates against debuffs. I actually did not know that about Ukkos and Rudra! Now I’m curious how many others I don’t know about! I hate that all of you knew what I meant, but instead of just saying "no," you took the time to explain that the effect is not, in fact, hidden. To be fair, I also hate myself for asking. I should have known better.
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Shiva.Humpo said: » Lili said: » Shiva.Humpo said: » Cata and Origin are pretty unique with the drain. All other primes are just strictly damage only. However there are other WS's that give effects such as Guillotine and Tachi:Gekko having a silence effect. Plenty of Stun WS's also. Ukko's Fury applies Slow, Rudra's Storm applies Gravity, and so on and so on. Lots of WS have secondary effects - empy WSs having some was a major issue on Alexander HTMV, which retaliates against debuffs. I actually did not know that about Ukkos and Rudra! Now I’m curious how many others I don’t know about! Like 20% the ws in the game lower something. Evasion defense att acc. Or apply something. Plague silence poison stun sleep bind.
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[51 days between previous and next post]Oh I just verified this. But Origin does bypass Shadows like Catastrophe/Entropy.
Also noticed weapon bash did too with AF gloves on. Credit goes to BigAl, I was just the Ninja who got murdered.
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[161 days between previous and next post]A buddy of mine decided to get Lorg Mor Stage 3 since, as far as either of us know, nobody has ever tested the WS to get the fTP and WSC values. An old dev post says the mods are STR/MND, and all the Prime WS should have equal values between their two mods, so I'm assuming they're the same value.
We went into Sortie today on BRD, GEO/SCH, COR and used Dagda on the Acuexes at 3k TP to try to figure out the values. We spent some time tinkering around with chaos roll values and Shell Crusher to make sure we were attack capped before proceeding. Data was taken in two sets. Set 1 had 350 STR, 365 MND, and 60% WSD. Set 2 had 320 STR, 379 MND, and 40% WSD. The data set seems to have some second hit misses, some first hit kills, and some double attacks that pollute the data a little, but it get us close to an actual number for the 3k fTP and WSC. Note that these numbers are low since acuexes resist blunt. We were careful to not record any numbers from when the acuex STR/MND down was on or Monbereaux's STR/MND up was on, but it's possible we missed one here or there. Set 1 Damage 10286 9685 9960 9864 9949 9947 9929 8895 9360 10338 9744 9946 9981 10046 9928 10247 9956 9600 10117 9895 10509 9871 9977 9728 9648 Set 2 Damage 7857 7910 7811 7982 7462 8000 7706 7871 8170 7715 7711 7779 7866 7927 7967 8225 8041 8111 7892 8016 7407 7878 7905 7771 7732 7949 7743 7807 8058 7821 8370 I'll add some easier data points for that.
Wild Rabbit in west ron, level -1 No WSD Stage 4 Lorg Mor (so base DMG 227) GEO/WHM 3k TP, STR 160, MND 175 17481 17950 17347 3k TP, STR 160, MND 232 18654 18448 18473 3k TP, STR 200, MND 175 18847 18870 18346 3k TP STR 338, MND 408 24861 24511 25082 Edit: never done the math before to solve for this but I think this is identical to Judgment but 2 hits. 50%/50% STR/MND with 12 fTP at 3k TP. The damage on other stuff seems nearly identical to Judgment too. If you could get a ~1.05 spread high/low for the no fotia vs fotia it will simplify things greatly (same str and mnd in both sets)
Your spreads are ~1.2-1.3 which will need more data. Then repeat but add a bunch of mind (without fotia) but keep str constant if you make one large assumption about what we know of other prime WS, you only need 3 sets of data.
The assumption is that the FTP growth is completely linear from 1k to 3k TP. If you start with that assumption you only need:
Those 3 data sets are all you need to figure out WSC and ftp for each prime WS. Edit: If the assumption is accurate, if not, then you'll need a 4th data set at 2k.
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[33 days between previous and next post]So Genoxd's data doesn't have the full 5% spread but if you take the avg values and use 2.5% you can get something directional. I tried fitting ftp @3k = 11,12,13,14 but only found ftp = 13.5 with 40% STR and 40% MND fitting well. Anything else overshot/undershot in one of the situations. See below for calculations flooring only the WSC modifier. It would be interesting to verify further on this.
3k TP, STR 160, MND 175 pdif 3.25 2.5% randomizer 1.025 base 227 fstr 33 STR contribution 64 MND contribution 70 Calculated dmg = (227+33+64+70)*3.25*1.025*13.5 = 17,719.9 Genoxd avg dmg 17593 3k TP, STR 160, MND 232 pdif 3.25 multiplier 1.025 base 227 fstr 33 STR contribution 64 MND contribution 92 Calculated dmg = (227+33+64+92)*3.25*1.025*13.5 = 18,708.3 Genoxd avg dmg 18525 3k TP, STR 200, MND 175 pdif 3.25 multiplier 1.025 base 227 fstr 33 STR contribution 80 MND contribution 70 Calculated dmg = (227+33+80+70)*3.25*1.025*13.5 = 18,438.5 Genoxd avg dmg 18688 3k TP STR 338, MND 408 pdif 3.25 multiplier 1.025 base 227 fstr 33 STR contribution 135 MND contribution 163 Calculated dmg = (227+33+135+163)*3.25*1.025*13.5 = 25,094.3 Genoxd avg dmg 24818 Bolmster said: » So Genoxd's data doesn't have the full 5% spread but if you take the avg values and use 2.5% you can get something directional. I tried fitting ftp @3k = 11,12,13,14 but only found ftp = 13 with 40% STR and 40% MND fitting well. Anything else overshot/undershot in one of the situations. See below for calculations flooring only the WSC modifier. It would be interesting to verify further on this. You have wrong base. Its stage 4 227. The only thing that fits is 13.5 fTP and 40% STR/MND. Thanks, I just re-calculated and edited my post. I agree 13.5 at 40% looks pretty close to what it could be.
This also means it's weaker dps than Maxentius/BlackHalo, but to be fair, Maxentius/BlackHalo is top tier dps.
Could someone please play around with store tp gear and report back with 5 weaponskills hitting 1k TP or very close to that for Dagda? On rabbits or anything easy that is obvious attack and fstr is capped and you just land the first hit of the WS.
I would say using average is not great: here is a data set I collected tonight that LOOKS like enough data:
Sword 3k 3k fotia 37579 38719 38027 38744 37974 39054 37195 38467 37986 38195 38675 37561 38817 37531 37677 38675 38547 37702 37556 37397 38935 37451 38486 38277 37774 37960 37696 38738 37768 39092 38275 37577 38354 37443 38047 38555 38797 38251 37514 38976 37575 38185 37212 38735 38585 38308 38978 38312 38499 37224 However, using the average with these data you anticipate ftp ~10 while the min-fotia/min ratio predicts ~18.x Adding in more data to the second column and now the average predicts ftp ~40 but the min-fotia/min ratio still predicts 18.x Additional fotia data: 37882 37673 38741 38550 38664 38253 39123 38513 Right now at 1.0479 and 1.0461 I am getting 18.4 for 3K Quote: Fenrir.Ahlen said: » 99 rdm sub 59 sam (mlvl 50) 204 str 184 dex 204 mnd no pdl / ws dmg gear on Only scales with mnd / dex Exact 3k imperator dmg values: Spoiler Alert! Click to view. so far I'm getting these for sword/imperator: 6.45 x 18.2 looks closer in line w/dagger But also looks close to the data Ahlen posted 2023-12-23. There definitely needs to be more testing but I wouldn't be surprised if it's higher Sorry I missed the replies, I'll set a reminder to do more testing this weekend
Aspens,
Can you confirm your data is all single hits, what job and subjob you were on, your DEX/MND, what base dmg your Caliburnus has and any WSD%+ gear or pdl+ gear you had? Also, what were you fighting? From Ahlen's Imperator data I see fTP of 13.81. It fits fairly well but I am not sure what base dmg he had or if 70% are the currently accepted %'s. Can you take a look below at the values I am using and give me your thoughts? Ahlen's Data Calc(3k TP, STR 204, DEX 184, MND 204, fTP13.81, +5% randomizer) pdif 3.35 (3.25+0.1 pdl from SAM sub) randomizer 1.05 base 181 fstr (assume capped) 28 70% DEX contribution 128 70% MND contribution 142 Calculated dmg = (181+28+128+142)*3.35*1*13.81 = 22,160 Calculated dmg w/ randomizer= (181+28+128+142)*3.35*1.05*13.81 = 23,268 Calculated Range 22,160 - 23,268 Ahlen's range 22,195 - 23,252 Now with Gorget (fTP +~0.098) Calculated dmg = (181+28+128+142)*3.35*1*13.908 = 22,317 Calculated dmg w/ randomizer = (181+28+128+142)*3.35*1.05*13.908 = 23,433 Calculated Range 22,317 - 23,433 Ahlen's range 22,317 - 23,395 I have Oshala too if we need any more data on that one
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