Prime WS Information, Testing, Discussion
|
Prime WS Information, Testing, Discussion
not really bitching about those who desired better numbers- as I stated multiple times this kind of testing is not something I've ever done well in-game. My bitching is squarely placed at those who think there's some magic answer in terms of what to build, when in reality one should do what many of us have said from the start: build a weapon for a job you truly care about and enjoy playing, because its a long *** journey and none are so beyond existing options that they will become the new "standard" choice for that weapon class.
[+]
Alright I apologize then. I took it you were mad at me and Austar back when you posted your numbers based on the tone of your post.
Far as people who want a be all end all guide on what Prime to make, you can't really help them. There is no best Prime weapon, they have to make that decision themselves. There's certainly ones that work better than others but it doesn't really matter. They're all stronger than what we need for any content in the game now and probably forever.
[+]
I'd also add that having complete information for the weapons can help them make a better decision but complete information takes more time than most are willing to invest into what is largely thankless work, so not having the drive to finish testing is understandable.
On my end I still need to do some GKT testing. There were some control numbers posted in here at some point but I'd like to add to those. Majority of Mumei shots were just glamour screenies of 99k on Sortie Bosses. So basically you can build a Prime bow to kill V25 tiger which you only ever need to do once in your life, then it doesn't change much elsewhere? I wish they would add some proper RNG burn content again, like a ilvl 135/145 Odin fight.
Also does GKT become top tier or nay? K123 said: » So basically you can build a Prime bow to kill V25 tiger which you only ever need to do once in your life, then it doesn't change much elsewhere? I wish they would add some proper RNG burn content again, like a ilvl 135/145 Odin fight. Also does GKT become top tier or nay? If you're only playing ranger for the tiger fight... You could make that same arguement about any of the weapons if your building it to complete X endgame content.
[+]
Has there been any research on the prime club? I don't see it on front page, I may have overlooked it.
I'm gonna mirror what others have said here. The game is old and there's unlikely to be any major content in the future. These weapons are probably the last big grind we're gonna see. If you aren't building something you'll enjoy using then I don't know what to tell you. It takes 3 months to build a stage 4, which is pretty reasonable for the resultant toy we get to play with. I've always followed the logic of devoting my resources toward jobs and weapons I enjoy. And I'm happy with my choices. In the case of the Sarv testing data I gathered last night, I simply did that because I wanted to know. I like understanding the maths that drive the game's numbers, and having that knowledge makes it easier to optimize gear sets. But even without that knowledge my decision would have been the same. I enjoy playing ranger a lot. So it was a logical pick for me. Build what you want. There is never a right or wrong answer.
[+]
I think it's a little insane that people are waiting for stat modifiers on the WS to determine which weapon they want to pick. If it's 65% STR/AGI, you'll take a bow, but if it's 55% STR/AGI you're going to pick a scythe instead? It just seems like a ridiculous thing to ask.
I think what people REALLY want is "What damage does the WS do, and how does that compare to the normal WS we do with this weapon type?" This doesn't require any maths or formulas, and I think most people would be satisfied if someone with the weapon went out to an exp camp and did 100 of each WS on locus mobs with attack capped. Final thought on this topic though: I agree with the rest of the posters, you should pick a weapon based on which job(s) you play the most. IMO they're all better (in some situations) than your existing weapons. In all cases, they provide you with SC options you didn't have before. If you like X weapon, you should get that prime. If you like multiple weapons, pick the one you play the most :shrug: Lemmings need to be told(shown) what to do, too much anxiety in picking for themselves.
What if they don't pick the best weapon, the shame. Quote: Lemmings need to be told(shown) what to do, too much anxiety in picking for themselves. What if they don't pick the best weapon, the shame. This is a constant in society, be it in real life or the hobbies and passtimes we pursue. Even simple decisions like "what dessert should I get?" when faced with a bevy of choices at a fancy restaurant can drive people to doubt themselves. Sure, that triple layer chocolate cake looks amazing, but the strawberry shortcake also looks so good, and that apple cobbler is also very enticing. That's when someone else at the dinner table says they're gonna get the butter pecan pie and suddenly a simple decision like desert becomes a massive ordeal. In truth... any of those options would have satisfied the pallete and left the person making the decision satisfied and happy. If they were faced with one and ONLY one of those options, regardless which of them it may have been, they would have accepted that without a second thought, eaten their desert, and gone home happy. It's only when they are faced with multiple choices side by side that doubt starts to factor in. This is what's known as "the paradox of choice", and it also has elements of "The fear of missing out". The desire to make "the best" decision is an ingrained element in the human psyche that goes back to our early primitive tribal hunting and gathering days when luxury and comfort like we know now wasn't a thing. I always try to keep that in mind when making decisions like this. When faced with such a decision I will deliberate options and make a choice, and whatever I pick is what I go with...period. No need to second guess.
[+]
I put this in the Fimb thread but maybe I'll get more responses here.
https://www.ffxiah.com/forum/topic/57493/a-desperate-plea-for-fimbulvetr-testing/2/#3687781 The estimate was 9.5 ftp with 50% STR VIT mods but that doesn't fit my data sample at all and I was hoping someone could pick it apart. I've been testing this for fun using PLD/SAM. Elvaan PLD/SAM Naked with Stage 4 STR 159+30 VIT 159+30 3000tp only, Wild Rabbits (318dmg+43fstr+189(50%mod))=550 * 9.5 = 5225 * 3.85 (/sam) = 20116 * 1.1 AM3 = 22127 What am I doing wrong? Data below: Try with the mods be closer to 60% like all the other 2H weapons? How Melliny gathered data is exactly how you do it, limit the number of variables and control one thing at a time.
Asura.Saevel said: » Try with the mods be closer to 60% like all the other 2H weapons? How Melliny gathered data is exactly how you do it, limit the number of variables and control one thing at a time. Yeah I actually made a calculator (simple one) Mods at 69% work pretty well with a 9.5 http://FTP. I can also gather more samples. 69 just seemed odd based on other WSs. Edit: 60% and 10 FTP are in range as well. So if I understand this correctly, I smack some rabbits naked at 1k 2k and 3k tp a bunch of times then add some +wsc(suspected str and vit for GA) and do it a again, and then seperately do it with only fotia pieces? I'll mess around with Disaster today or tomorrow perhaps and post my results. Doesn't seem to be much outside info on Disaster yet and I personally would like to know. I imagine its similar to GS.
if you get samples @3000 TP with more or less 1.05 variance, you can start doing some with Fotia Neck and confirm stuff. Don't even have to do 1000/2000 to find all the variables.
Thing to remember is that nothing in FFXI has a decimal place, they represent everything as a binary value of 1024 then use some cute binary math tricks to avoid having to deal with remainders or doing floating point math. It's why every calculation seems to be floored, there was never a decimal place to start with.
Like 9.5 would actually be 9728/1024 or 2432/256 to prevent having to deal with that (.5). After observing the other 2H weapons I think they are all following the same pattern of 60/60 mods with slight variations of 3/6/9 for the fTP values. Shiva.Myamoto said: » So if I understand this correctly, I smack some rabbits naked at 1k 2k and 3k tp a bunch of times then add some +wsc(suspected str and vit for GA) and do it a again, and then seperately do it with only fotia pieces? I'll mess around with Disaster today or tomorrow perhaps and post my results. Doesn't seem to be much outside info on Disaster yet and I personally would like to know. I imagine its similar to GS. Yes it's important to only change one thing at a time. Doing 5~10 WS's at a fixed TP point with fixed stats, then add 30~60 of a single value and do it again. Then switch out and add 30~60 of a different value and do that again. K123 said: » So basically you can build a Prime bow to kill V25 tiger which you only ever need to do once in your life, then it doesn't change much elsewhere? I wish they would add some proper RNG burn content again, like a ilvl 135/145 Odin fight. can't argue the desire for more ranged content, but I do understand why in general its difficult to design content that "purposely" fits Ranged Meta. Its always been used as a technique to handle content sooner than we defensively can, and as gearsets and tactics improve, we have always "moved in". ;) But I will say this- you don't need it for v25 tiger, hell, I don't need it probably any of the times I use it. But I am using a bow from a very enjoyable aspect more than ever prior in the game. I can abuse trueshot so much easier and effectively than with marksmanship, and all the additional gear for that trait has a place in modern sets in a way that one typically can't with a gun. So no, they're not "needed", but they really are damn fun....so go have fun!
[+]
Asura.Dexprozius said: » I mean right now in the RNG thread Melliny + Celebrindal are bringing up points for and against Pinaka vs Gandiva... while the damage is nothing to laugh at vs the content that matters (Arebati), I'd say its not well and above what we have already and certainly not an end all be all to the point that a ranger should 100% no questions make this as their 1st prime... kind of the way your Prime hierarchy implies. Yeah i forgot to mention this, the difference is small from what we have seen, if any between the bows. Both weapons can kill it. Gandiva seems to pull hate faster though which is something to consider. Depending on the situation of the fight, one might opt for the white dmg from gandiva and TS. Also i was implying the 'hierarchy' basically on the primes themselves and in terms of the TOUGHEST content currently. ((which i consider to be v25 t3/t4, the new master trial at this point, and maybe Enraged Sortie bosses) Only 2-5 of them 'shine' but by no means relegate many other REMA weapons to Mog Storage. Tl;dr you really don;t need any of these weapons, on any job, to do any content that exists. And on the harder content, you are likely using something else other than a prime. I left out Aria since u are most likely not coming close to capping/overcapping attack on v25 (possible exception being ranger hover shenanigans). I don't think your stage 5 BRD owner has fought v25 Lion yet with it, so we have n't tested it. Ofc it's nice on older content. Many edits
[+]
Bahamut.Celebrindal said: » K123 said: » So basically you can build a Prime bow to kill V25 tiger which you only ever need to do once in your life, then it doesn't change much elsewhere? I wish they would add some proper RNG burn content again, like a ilvl 135/145 Odin fight. can't argue the desire for more ranged content, but I do understand why in general its difficult to design content that "purposely" fits Ranged Meta. Its always been used as a technique to handle content sooner than we defensively can, and as gearsets and tactics improve, we have always "moved in". ;) But I will say this- you don't need it for v25 tiger, hell, I don't need it probably any of the times I use it. But I am using a bow from a very enjoyable aspect more than ever prior in the game. I can abuse trueshot so much easier and effectively than with marksmanship, and all the additional gear for that trait has a place in modern sets in a way that one typically can't with a gun. So no, they're not "needed", but they really are damn fun....so go have fun! Most fun way to beat Schah imo!
[+]
Cerberus.Shadowmeld said: » Bahamut.Celebrindal said: » K123 said: » So basically you can build a Prime bow to kill V25 tiger which you only ever need to do once in your life, then it doesn't change much elsewhere? I wish they would add some proper RNG burn content again, like a ilvl 135/145 Odin fight. can't argue the desire for more ranged content, but I do understand why in general its difficult to design content that "purposely" fits Ranged Meta. Its always been used as a technique to handle content sooner than we defensively can, and as gearsets and tactics improve, we have always "moved in". ;) But I will say this- you don't need it for v25 tiger, hell, I don't need it probably any of the times I use it. But I am using a bow from a very enjoyable aspect more than ever prior in the game. I can abuse trueshot so much easier and effectively than with marksmanship, and all the additional gear for that trait has a place in modern sets in a way that one typically can't with a gun. So no, they're not "needed", but they really are damn fun....so go have fun! Most fun way to beat Schah imo! Well I mean there are exceptions^^ Still the way I want to do that fight <3 There's also people that have stage 4 and or are doing stage 5 primes but have no interest in the v25 grind.
Answer is always what do you want to use, what do you play more, what would be fun for you to do. We're talking 6-9 months or so to maybe get a stage 5. Probably last weapon of that type you'd make. Make it something you want.
[+]
Bahamut.Celebrindal said: » K123 said: » So basically you can build a Prime bow to kill V25 tiger which you only ever need to do once in your life, then it doesn't change much elsewhere? I wish they would add some proper RNG burn content again, like a ilvl 135/145 Odin fight. can't argue the desire for more ranged content, but I do understand why in general its difficult to design content that "purposely" fits Ranged Meta. Its always been used as a technique to handle content sooner than we defensively can, and as gearsets and tactics improve, we have always "moved in". ;) But I will say this- you don't need it for v25 tiger, hell, I don't need it probably any of the times I use it. But I am using a bow from a very enjoyable aspect more than ever prior in the game. I can abuse trueshot so much easier and effectively than with marksmanship, and all the additional gear for that trait has a place in modern sets in a way that one typically can't with a gun. So no, they're not "needed", but they really are damn fun....so go have fun! I don't really think of the V25 fights as "normal", they operate in such a dumb fashion that we have to approach them in weird ways.
[+]
In our groups, Fimb from Greatsword was pretty instrumental in winning the slashing fights (Kalunga and Mboze). But DRK has an overabundance of natural attack so it was performing better than other options. I'm less surprised when I see SAM, MNK, DRG prime weapons are nothing special.
[+]
Has it been tested as to whether any of them have innate attack bonuses? I've only seen testing on TW enemies.
These are my numbers with Laphria Stage 4 killin wabbits. Not as many samples as I would like for WSC but its time consuming and I had a friend helping me so I didn't want to take up a bunch of their time. It was relatively clear that STR and VIT were the winners on that anyhow. Holy time consuming process lol
Oh ML50 HUME WAR /SAM, STR-161+30, VIT-153+30 (Laphria +30STR & +30VIT). If I have more time to get some more wsc samples, I'll update. This is it for now though. Hopefully someone smarter than I can decipher this lol EDITED to have values in ascending order. Since it seems like no one did it yet... I guess ill do stage 4 sword testing /cry
Fenrir.Ahlen said: » Since it seems like no one did it yet... I guess ill do stage 4 sword testing /cry Pretty sure there was some video of JP guy doing test and coming with numbers. https://www.ffxiah.com/forum/topic/57318/prime-ws-information-testing-discussion/37/#3683369 You can try to retest if you want though 99 rdm sub 59 sam (mlvl 50)
204 str 184 dex 204 mnd no pdl / ws dmg gear on Only scales with mnd / dex Exact 1k imperator dmg values: 6998 7013 7021 7033 7037 7043 7045 7056 7058 7105 7107 7112 7126 7144 7162 7170 7170 7176 7194 7195 7201 7210 7217 7226 7229 7230 7251 7262 7271 7303 7317 7333 7344 1k Added only Fotia Neck 7102 7112 7119 7120 7121 7123 7130 7132 7133 7143 7163 7169 7179 7180 7181 7188 7189 7189 7193 7200 7200 7200 7201 7205 7210 7217 7217 7220 7222 7231 7232 7235 7237 7238 7240 7243 7243 7244 7253 7254 7256 7265 7277 7282 7289 7289 7291 7292 7297 7313 7314 7317 7344 7345 7348 7353 7355 7356 7358 7362 7370 7382 7384 7385 7388 7393 7396 7397 7401 7416 7416 7421 7431 7434 7437 7441 7442 7445 7447 7448 looks like he only did 5 ws at each value??? unless theres some magic sauce to finish that fast not sure how much that will help.
He listed it at 70%dex / 70%mind / 3.75 / 7.5 / 11.75 hmmmm I suppose I should have arranged my values listed for Disaster from highest to lowest for convenience... lol my bad. Was wondering why there was crickets for a few days haha
My numbers in my post above was regurgitated as recorded. Edited my previous post on Disaster values. |
All FFXIV and FFXI content and images © 2002-2024 SQUARE ENIX CO., LTD.
FINAL FANTASY is a registered trademark of Square Enix Co., Ltd.