May 2023 Version Update (Part 2)

It seems likely that is just referring to having a Stage 2 weapon triggering bosses' ability to drop the requisite -drite ore. Just like how having a Stage 1 weapon unlocked Eikondrite dropping.

I just find it very out of character for SE to make the primary currency for these weapons also the primary currency for the Empyrean+3 upgrades.

Having materials for ultimate weapons coming from content that also upgrades gear is nothing new- that bit is almost built in FFXI's DNA. A group content that has "quick but random" rewards for all, along with a currency that drops in that content dedicated to a "long haul" process for the weapons.

Sure, Sortie has been out plenty long to handle the majority of one's Empy+3 upgrade needs, but that doesn't mean every person is done. And the inability to effectively work on both gear and weapons independently at the same time is a real kick to the shins in my book.

1 month of high effort should be adequate. I'm not sure why you're equating one month with Ambuscade weapons since those can be obtained in under a day as long as you have a Pulse weapon.

Your Stage 4/5 idea isn't bad. A tricky fight is far more engaging and entertaining than repeatedly grinding low-challenge content.

This is the biggest issue by far. The fact that they share currency and the +3 upgrades eat a significant chunk of your progress from a prime weapon doesn't really make sense from a design perspective. For a player like me, who has one job at 5/5 +3 and a smattering of others at like 1/5 or 2/5 means all of the other jobs are forever going to sit at +2.

To be honest, a lot of how this is implemented doesn't make sense. Requiring Peculiar Foes to give a part of the currency (which is braindead simple but can only be done once a month) thrown into the mix as another sort of time sink is fair enough, but then why the absolutely huge amount for a stage 3 (which at that level won't be "replacing" anyone's current REMA and would only be out of the box good for an under-geared character).

I don't think 6 months is really the issue for making a REMAP, especially the new hotness. To Homsar's point, grinding Sortie every day as the only mechanism to gain gallimaufry is boring, lazy, and is poor design choice.

They could have implemented galli reward bonus' for touching the sheol C crystal at the end of a seg run, or as a weekly RoE for clearing any vengeance level Odyssey NM with someone that hasn't cleared it yet to encourage helping people that struggle with unlocks or vengeance progression grinding.

They could've added galli rewards to sparks for a monthly injection/catch-up mechanism for people that tend to PUG sortie occasionally.

None of this is game breaking and it lets people enjoy other content while still feeling like they're progressing with what they want to progress on, even if they're doing different content with other people.

For as ***as XIV is, this is one of the few things they got right for relic grinding.

Edit: engrish

The current system (shared currency for Empy and Prime) could've made more sense if the numbers of stones was much higher, the number of galli incredibly lower, but you had the chance to buy a certain number of stones per week with Galli.

At that point you would've kept the currency for Empy upgrades but if you didn't need empy anymore or wanted to accelerate the weapons, you would've been able to do so, to a certain extent (within the weekly limit)


I don't think ~6 months to get a "new" relic is that insane. It's certainly much slower than we're used to, but overall it's "okaysh".
The main problem I see here is the repetivity of spamming 1hr content (the same content) every *** day for like... forever.
That's going to make lotsa people burn out fast, at which point they simply drop the game in frustration and negativity.

I remember them saying they brought someone out of retirement to help create a new zone (the way XI skins zones is a bit of a lost art these days), I wonder if that was canned or if it was finished and will be added in a future update.

IDK, I like the idea of having monthlies to get extra progress on primes in theory, but it's polar opposite to every other rema. You can't do nyzul to work on your relic, or dynamis to get your aeonic. They're iconic weapons you get by doing the content which they came out with, not items you get for completing dailies. I'll pass on the ffxiv and wow treatment

I would kind of agree if we were at a different point in the life of FFXI. The fact is though that 90% of the playerbase has completed 90% of the content, so there's nothing really waiting at the end of that grind except for a shiny new toy that doesn't really have anything to use it on.

Another thing that is overlooked regarding the time frame is the fact that most people are going to want multiple primes because FFXI largely revolves around playing multiple jobs. I play COR, RUN, WAR, and BLU a lot while also having SAM, MNK, THF, and PLD in the closet that I use regularly when needed. Getting primes for even 25% of my jobs is an exorbitant task.

looking at the sudden skew towards Haijin style grinding with these weapons, looks like they brought Tanaka back too.
I approve.

just dont bring back sage sundi prz se

Reward ratio is ok, 6 months at an hour a day is 180 hours. If you were to include the time farming materials at a reasonable rate, say 1m/hr, you're well over that for a mythic. If anything, splitting it over 6 months at an hour a day makes it more life-friendly and reasonable.

I know some people will split hairs and talk about how much gil/hr they make mercing, but ultimately the economy of the game is biased quite a few different ways by botting and multiboxing and such. From a design perspective, I firmly believe the effort/reward ratio is fine here.

The issue is, as Clintbeastwood and others have said, doing the same event every day for 6 months is incredibly repetitive and boring. It's not even an event that provides much for variety within the run. I'm not sure how this is controversial, could anyone who really enjoys Sortie try to provide a counterargument? Genuinely asking.

hate to say it, but is it possible that they meant silver knife? <.<

The final battlefield is technically "new"

Not to mention we've already been doing Sortie for around 9 months already.

Why does it have to be though?

Lots of people seem to be married to the idea that REMA(P)s have to fit a certain mold when it comes to the grind itself. Aeonics were really nothing like making a relic or empyrean or mythic, and I don't see any reason Primes need to follow some arbitrary progression framework either.


TVR encompassed all expansions, so it wouldn't even break your own rule here.

No casual is going to complete the current Prime grind either, so...

If you get 125 alexandrite per salvage and it takes you a half hour per run, it takes 120 hours to get the Alex for a mythic. Add on to that nyzul, assaults, znm, einherjar, mulcibar, trials, beitetsu. Mythic takes way more effort than prime. And every bit of this is boring and easy as ***.

Now some of that can be bypassed with gil, but farming gil is also boring and repetitive most of the time so...eh... it's a boring, repetitive, grindy process to build REMAs. That's the game we have. There's a variety of content, if you don't like certain things don't do them.

Definitely agree with other posters that tying muffins to primes and empy armor leads to annoying and unnecessary decisions though, it should've been some other currency or different ratios. We'll have to see what stage 4 and 5 look like

Let's be honest I don't think outside of a hand full the weapons are that game breaking even before the test tbh. Weapons look good but like people don't need feel bad for not making one.

As a total nubcake who isn't anywhere close to doing Sortie yet this thread reminds me of back in days of yore when Mythics first came out.

Iirc some cool cat back then calculated the average gain of Alexandrite for an individual and concluded that it'd take 34 years to farm a Mythic. Or something ridiculous along those lines.

I assume this is worse though, even if the time gate isn't that drastic, cause I have not read people liking Sortie even when I first heard about Sortie coming out.

A big difference with REMs is that much of the currency is buyable, and most of the other requirements were eased in some way via RoV KIs, and that currency is obtainable from Ambuscade and various campaigns as well. Parts of the process (and trials/etc) mean doing the related content, but a big chunk of the grind is also obtainable elsewhere if not on the AH.

Going more with a FFXIV type route would work thematically too. With the additional cooperation with beastmen and demons, take what they've already done with Elijah and plop NPCs in the beastmen fortresses with their own weekly or monthly objectives to unlock and complete for Prime progress. Maybe create new reasons for folks to go back and do slightly older ilevel content with returnees or whatever.
Keying everything on grinding the same daily content folks are already tired of just doesn't seem like a good way to retain players.

Like we said in the thread regarding the interview, 'area' is just a catch-all term for 'zone', 'battlefield', etc. So yeah, the final fight was likely it.

Exactly.

I'm not a game designer, so talking out of my *** here, but wouldn't you want players to enjoy the entire world of content you created, instead of just the new daily grind dungeon? RoE seems like it would be the easiest and quickest way to get players to engage in random older content that new/returning players might need.

Really anything would be better than, "Just spam sortie the rest of your life."

The above seems to be the case. After speaking with him a 3rd time and zoning 3 times I received 5 Voracious psyches.