Lino - Augment Question

Hello! I am looking for help in what stone(s) give aug of Quaq with Double attack? If no one knows, how about Acc+ so at least it is more useful.

PS: I have REMA brd but i seldom play brd, time to play and help up the community.

Thanks a lot. Good day!

Below is what I found from the forum:
Linos offers a very wide array of DD-purposed augments for Bard. This great part is that its non-Rare, so you can carry as many as you'd like. Again, this is from Alluvion Skirmish, which means it abides by the random augment system, so you may not get perfect augments, or even the right augments at first, but I'll go over some alternatives later on. Down further, you'll see full augment combinations in the equipment sets. You can get Attack or Accuracy+20 on it, Weapon skill damage+, Double Attack, Quadruple Attack, Haste, and a wide array of other things. Take that, other jobs!

You can find the augments for each stone type here. Just use the side menu to go to the instrument augs for each stone, or scroll.

Quad is dusktip, double attack is leafslit, accuracy is any snow stone, but snowslit can give 5 more than the others and can also give accuracy w/ attack while the other snow stones will not.

I made a few of these recently, I just followed BG Wiki and used the +1 stones, and it was pretty painless.

So For Quad Attack use Dusktip stones
Double Attack use Leafslit stones
For Acc or Acc/Attack use Snowslit stones

I may have been lucky but I used less than 2 stacks of each listed stone (+1) and was able to double attack and quad attack +3. The accuracy or acc/attack was harder for me and I settled for 15 ACC on the one with double and quad attack. I did get 20 attack on a weaponskill focus linos.

As I mentioned before, the frequency of single "acc" or "att" is way higher than the super rare "acc+att".
Because of this reason, statistically, you have way more chances to see capped or close-to-cap augs for singles than you have for the double one.

As it has been said already let me remind you that the cap for singles is +20 and the cap for combined is +15.
I've been stubborn in tryin to aim for acc/att+15 but in hindsight I should've settled for one of the many +20 singles I've seen.
In light of this, I suggest anybody else tryin to aug Linos with snow stones to not follow my steps and to settle for a +20 single if you ever see one.
Imho +acc is more important than +att, but of course it's gonna depend on your gear, your sets and your typical targets.

Very insightful sharing of experience from everyone. Thank you so much.

i might be wrong her and just based on napkin math.
But I would advise getting QA + STP over QA + DA

In vacuum 1 STP and 1 DA gives the same speedup for WS cycle speed.
so 4 stp make you ws faster than 3DA. (offcause DA helps on white dmg)
QA reduces the effect of DA so you get less speedup for it
but QA works as a multiplier for STP so they improve the effect of each other.

whatever you want 20 acc over 15ATK/acc cen be very depending on other gear and situations.
I personally opted for the later so something along this in total

15 ACC/ATK (snow slit
4 STP (leaf slit/tip)
3 QA (dusktip)
for TP'ing

STP vs DA for the Leaf slot is quite a complex question, in my humble opinion.
Some time ago, before Naegling became a thing and when Carns was most of the time the best DPS option, I might have said something else! But that's no longer the case so...


DA has a pretty regular progression in the increase it gives to DPS, regardless of your stats. Granted you get diminishing return from DA past a certain value, and having a lot of other multiattack sources can make DA actually a problem.

STP is harder to benefit because +1STP doesn't always provide a DPS increase, it depends on the STP "tiers" and this changes a lot on your current weapon, its delay, your current DW value, your overall STP (but these values most of the time will be fixed and known) and additional STP (from food, Sam roll etc).
This second part is not always the same and this might radically change the impact of +/- 4STP on Linos.

If you have some specific scenarios in mind, you can test these values on the BRD spreadsheet and check wether or not +4 STP will increase your overall DPS more than 3DA or not.
In some situations, it totally will.


All of what we said so far is for a TP Linos of course.
If you're doing a WS Linos all of this doesn't matter anyway because more likely than not you're gonna go for WSD+3 in the Leaf slot.

That argument is just straight up wrong.

stp always help there is no staircase stp "tiers" in a ws.
even between lets say 1000 tp and 2000tp adding in more tp will imrpove ws.
aka 1650 tp give a better ws then let say 1200.
So there is always a benefit evne if it didnt lower the ws cycle then it improvede the ws itself

Would depend on the WS but more TP will often be a DPS increase...

I was of course referring to the number of hits needed to reach 1000 TP.
When even a single +1STP is enough to allow you to reach 1000 TP with one less hit, usually the DPS difference becomes quite noticeable.

In all other situations yes, even +1STP will produce an increase with a WS that benefits from additional TP (such as Savage Blade, as it's the case here), but the increase won't always be enough to compensate for other stats you could've put in the same slot, and here we're talking about 3DA vs 4STP, rite?

Usually there's a "sweet spot".
You can easily check this on the BRD spreadsheet.
Under that sweet spot, a DA+3 Linos will produce more DPS than +4STP and vice-versa.


Absolutely, but +4 STP alone won't generate 450 TP difference as in your example though, that would be quite huge! Alas it's not the case XD
+4STP with Naegling/Centovente should produce ~2 more TP per hit, approx.

In other terms, with ~62 STP and DA Linos, you're gonna end up having enough TP for a WS at ~1053 TP.
With ~62 STP and +4STP Linos, you're gonna end up being able to shoot a WS with a minimum of ~1079 TP. That's ~26 TP difference on Savage Blade which is nice but clearly not immense.

Ironically in the example provided above you only need another 2 stp to reduce the number of hits required to reach >1000 by 1, creating a pretty noticeable overall DPS increase :Q__ _

the size difference is irrelevant any difference is a difference and if there is always a difference no matter how small it is then it is incorrect to say "1STP doesn't always provide DPS increase"
That the point I'm correction everything else you said is not part of that correction

Having STP (all other factors equal) is always a DPS increase it might be minor or might be drastic. but its there.

It's only always a DPS gain if you're able to use the additional TP. Since you can't always use the TP, it's not always there.

I'd dare to say it's pretty relevant instead °-°
Because let's rewind things up a bit. The initial question was to evaluate wether +3DA or +4STP would've been the best option for a TP linos.

And the answer is "it depends". +4 STP can totally win out, but it won't always do that. As I mentioned before, it depends wether you're below or above the "sweet spot" I was talking about.

So, to go back to your sentence, it is very relevant. Because unless that difference exceeds a certain number, then it won't make +4STP a better option than +3DA

(from my experience though, it manages to do that pretty often but it kinda depends on one's gear and buffs of course)

This is the hangup phrase, because it's patently untrue, except maybe if you're doing Mordant Rime or some other WS where TP doesn't increase damage.

Maybe it should be rephrased to: +1 STP doesn't always provide a DPS increase When compared to 1 DA to be more accurate. At the end of the day, barring a situation where your WS does not scale in damage with TP, there is always an increase in DPS from +1 STP, in every situation ever.

As Sechs later clarified, the DPS for Linos specifically, since it's a tradeoff between DA and STP, may not always be a net positive, but that's an entirely different claim.

Thankfully, everyone has access to the tool to calculate DPS now, so this question is kind of pointless at the end of the day. Go into the tool and swap the stats on your Linos and see which one has higher DPS. Or build both, use one for Carnwenhan and the other for Naegling.

Bingo ;-)
But also when TP is beyond a certain threshold, depending on how much TPbonus you're equipping.

Then again, it was more a figure of speech (hyperbole) to emphasize how such a small amount of STP wouldn't produce massive differences in the overall DPS output, whereas when you can reduce the number of hits required by one, then even just a single +1 STP will produce a pretty noticeable DPS output difference.


But, anyway, I think I managed to better clarify in the successive posts!

There are also situations where you can't WS or you have to delay it, which creates overflow. Amnesia causes long periods where your only source of damage is TP and the STP is wasted. Like anything else in XI, it really just depends on the situation you're in.

Does anyone know if on Linos if you can get Store tp +6 with leaftip? Or is +4 the max? Thanks

I'm guessing you already checked bg wiki which says +4.

Maybe somebody got lucky eh, and we can change the wiki :)

My apologies, I saw +6 but thats for weapons. Thanks!

After so much time of thinking it didn't exist, the elusive wsd+3 finally arrived:



As for the STP vs DA thing, I went with Store TP for mine, for two reasons:
a) I find myself using Carn a lot (segment runs for stabb, Gaol/Sortie for WS spam)
b) what Sechs has been trying to say and everybody nitpicked on him: if the amount of store tp you have in your set ends up landing you at 999 TP after a given attack round, then 1 Store TP is more valuable than 10 DA, because it makes all the difference between reliably getting 1000TP one round earlier vs one round later (hyperbolic numbers, pls don't math at me)

That's it, that's the single case where +x Store TP is infinitely more valuable than the same +x Double Attack in the same slot. In my current set, 3DA was putting me at 995 TP, which was really annoying, so Store TP it is.

I agree with the sentiment that STP can beat DA in that scenario but not that it's the single case where X+STP beats X+DA.
-STP gives you more TP but doesn't give the mob more TP (as much as a DA would)
-STP gives TP on all QA, TA, and DA procs. DA can only give more TP if you didn't already QA, TA, or DA.

This is very important if building a Subtle set.


You can mathematically determine if X sTP is better than X MA and it is highly dependent on how much MA and sTP you already have.

Correct! I went with DA myself, however if you can hit cap sTP on a linos, good on you!

DD Bard's aren't necessarily uniform in their gear sets like other jobs, though bis in most categories does exist. It's all about whatever helps you build up or cap whatever you already have.

One argument that has not been brouht up is that linos caps at 3DA but 4STP. Making STP have much bigger impact

if you want to trade STP for DA cape is a better place to do so since you will get a 1:1 trade on it, rather then 1:0.75


Tossing out some math since iwas tweaking my bRD tp set anyway

Pretty standard TP set set from the DD bard thread



As we can see DA/QA flute under performs TP/QA flute
Going from TP cape to DA capes is also a benefit but if you combine both, the drawback from DA in flute negates the benefits of the DA cape

This would indicate that TP/QA flute is superior choices BUT... lets check with cor rolles (lucky roll +7 in gear)


now DA/QA flute has a slight benefit. DA cape still show a nice improvement over TP


bottom line is. from a pure DPS viewpoint
If you solo go with STP
If you get cor roll go with DA

But don't go with DA flute until you have you cape with DA rather than STP as its a better trade

This is assuming 11DW in belt and ear slot and not in cape slot.

i did abit more diggin into it.

i dont have bunzie R25 but was curious how it impacts the Linos Selection

and here we go



Top 2 to the left will be you solo play without bunzi head using the ambsucade head.
DA Linos is behind (-1.5 pcnt points)

Top 2 ones to the right are the same sets but with adde 60STP form lucky sam rolle with +7 gear.
DA lino has a miniscule leads (sub 0.1 Pcnt points)

Lower 2 to the left is with bunzihead R25.
DA flute is behind a bunch. (over 10 pcnt points)

Lower 2 to the right bunzi head R25 with 60STP from lucky Sam roll with +7 in gear
DA is still behind a bunch. (over 10 pcnt points)



So to to sum it up.
if you got good cor rolls and dont have bunzi head. DA flute is a smidgen ahead about 0.03% faster TP build.
But if you dont have cor roll you are missing out on a 0.07% speed up.
not going to beak the bank either or.

but once you get bunzie head R25 DA flute is crap you wil lbe behind 9% in tp speed without coor rolls and evne with coor rols You are still almost 4% behind.


In short.
DA flute is a bad choice overrall

P.S.
This is considering Savage blade spamming.
if you rather use carn for mellee, AM3 is going to make a huge change but NOT in the favor if DA flute. TP will rock out even more.

Spamming update my apologies

I've converted my spreadsheet into an easy web calculator
https://embed.calculoid.com/?calcId=106425&apiKey=60dfaae363cd93ab798a8

If your screenshot is correct, it looks like your TP flute+bunzi options have both DA and STP while the DA flute+bunzi options have neither. The TP squares have 3 more DA *and* 4 more stp than the others.

DOH.

TY for pointing it out

Corrected/redone



Top row is without cor rolls bottom row is WITH cor rolls (STP+60)

from left to right is the base TP set with NO flute then a set with STP flute and then one with DA flute

Conclussion is the same. STP flute is definitely the way to go if You have bunzi R25

Better to move from STP cape to DA cape than to make the flute DA

-- edit ---

TP set I did the calculations with

Naegling
Centovente

Bunzi hat R25
Ayanmo Corazza +2
Bunzi's Gloves
Volte Tights
Volte Spats

Bard's Charm +2
Reiki Yotai
Eabani Earring
Telos Earring
Chirich Ring +1
Chirich Ring +1
Intarabus's Cape (With DA)