Mog Bonanza

Yagyu Darkblade is awesome but I think over these boards it gets idealized a bit.
Unless you're a hardcore NIN player who wants to play NIN everytime and everywhere I doubt it's gonna be a major difference for you.

Air Knife used to be BiS offhand for DNC and THF but I'm not sure that's the case anymore (it's still a nice one for sure though)

Diamond Aspis is unique and awesome, despite the small amount allowed jobs. I'm not sure it would be good for you though, it's a very specific item for very specific jobs which already have a plethora of very specific sets and stuff.

Onion Sword III is a nice weapon in itself but mostly special for two reasons.
It allows you access to the custom WS "Fast Blade II", which despite being DEX instead of STR, is quite nice.
And second, it's "all jobs", which means it can be used even by jobs like DNC, granting DNC a very useful option for Slashing Damage, since DNC normally lacks decent options for that and has to rely exclusively on piercing from a plethora of nice daggers.

Is it better than Naegling? I'm not sure, probably not, but I'm sure it's close enough and as I said before it's "all jobs".

Also in a world where the WS wall exists, having an option that isn't Savage Blade is valuable.

Miracle Cheer is quite good too. Even if you have all other instruments, it can extend SV songs for an extra 3~4 minutes. There isn't a lot (read: almost any) content where this really matters, but it still occupies a niche.

Reraise V is unique, though probably not very relevant most of the time.

Really depends what jobs you have and what your priorities are. There are many options and provide a unique benefit to a job, 2, or 5.

I've seen a lot of people suggesting that in multiple threads, especially for new bards.
I'm not sure I personally agree.

What does Miracle Cheer do?
1) Grants you 1 more song (for a total of 3, or 4 during Clarion Call)
2) Makes "song duration" gear irrelevant, as all songs will have a fixed duration of 15 mins regardless of song duration gear or NiTro

This comes at a cost though.
It doesn't allow you to get 4 songs, which nowadays is pretty much taken for granted by anyone requesting a BRD in their party.
This can be solved by getting a Daurdabla99 of course.
Secondly, this comes at the cost of 10% song potency (20% if we're talking about SV).
Last but not least, of course you won't be able to use Aria of Passion (which is frankly quite niche) nor Honor March, which honestly is pretty much a fixed song every time you have a melee setup.
You CAN get Marsyas separately and use that instead of Miracle Cheer to cast Honor March, but then it will have "regular" duration, making the whole "fixed 15 mins duration without duration gear or NiTro" pretty moot, because one of your songs would have regular duration.
To me this kills what would otherwise be a very nice "18+ mins SV duration" scenario.

So would Miracle Cheer be good for who asked this question? Up to him, I just wanted to let him know the pros and cons.

Said in other more summarized terms, these are the positive things I often read about Miracle Cheer:


"It allows you to skip the majority of BRD gear, it's nice to build up a BRD mule which will be very good, even if not BiS, skipping a lot of stuff!"
This is partially true.
Sure you can skip Ghorn, but you can't really skip Daurdabla99 otherwise you're bound to 3 songs only instead of 3.
Likewise you can't really skip Marsyas, unless you want to avoid using Honor March but that's not really realistic.
This implies that you can't really skip song duration gear either because you won't need it for songs cast with Miracle Cheer, but would need it for Honor March.


"It allows you to give up to 18+ mins SV songs!"
Yes but at the cost of 20% potency (which is no big deal) and only for "regular" songs, if you want to use Honor March as well (which is gonna be the case in like >90% of situations where you use a BRD?) that won't apply to that song specifically.
Likewise for Aria of Passion but I feel that's a pretty niche song.

Agree with basically everything you said, but the scenario I'm picturing is you nitro SV hmarch (and aria if you want) then 3 other songs for 15m. This means 14m of SV hmarch/aria, 17m of SV minuets (or whatever your other songs are). Is 3 extra minutes of SV worth more than +1 song for 12 minutes? Idk, maybe. Depends on the content.

I'd still pick it because it's nice to have options.

It also makes it much faster and easier to overwrite melee songs on mages/tanks, which can't be understated, especially with the nitro window already being short as is.

This is probably the best aspect by far. You can make 5 songs with regular instruments on melee, then throw 3x 15 min ballads and whatever else you want on WHM (with pianissimo) without any problems. No need to split group in separate corners or recasting melee songs with low duration gear to be able to overwrite it with ballads. You are not even limited by nitro duration to apply songs to backline. You can do it at any time during SV.

And ghorn is still needed for Macc! So really you guys are saying it is another necessary bard instrument that is useful sometimes. Ghorn only days were simpler times.

I mean, the ghorn only times were really short and at the time very, very few people had a ghorn at all.

That's one thing I really enjoy about BRD, even though it seems to end up being a complaint of so many others. The RAPEMs all end up being useful and not invalidating each other.

I recognize this balance is a lot harder to maintain on weapons that are exclusively (or mostly) used to do damage to enemies, but for a lot of other jobs, there are definitive winners and losers, and lots of straight up trash weapons. BRD gets to use basically all of them though.

Aenaes kinda sucks imo, but I guess if you want radiance, umbra, or to use exenterator then that's a thing.

Miracle cheer isn't an ultimate weapon but bonanza weapons kinda occupy the same category and BRD once again got a clearly good instrument, but one that doesn't invalidate any other instruments. It's incredible game design IMO.

That’s the worst version of that acronym

Exactly why would my BRD want to use one flute, when she can use many and she even gets some herpes.. *** I meant harps!

If you're after all the RAPEMs, you'll be getting a lot more than just herpes.


You're right, I forgot to include Unity, Dynamis, and Bonanza weapons. RAPED BUMS

I really, really wish SE would given the Magian Moogle some "Item Consolidation Trials" ...like let me combine instruments to reclaim inventory space. I don't even want stat boosts, just let me me trade Ghorn and I dunno, Stage 5 horn into 1 instrument for the price of an Umbral Marrow? ...Or perhaps Synergize them into 1 instrument?

The side-grade JSE is slowly getting out of hand. Sheesh.

What you guys are discounting from Miracle Cheer is....

As a BRD that already has all the instruments, Miracle cheer would be a fantastic Ballad / off buff tool. Sing your 5 Good Songs on everyone, Ballad w/ Miracle Cher on your mages and it will GUARANTEE overwrite them. No more fumbling with giving them a low potency option to overwrite or having to wait timers.

Most BRDs also utilize Inyanga legs in their ballad set rather than Empy Ballad + legs in order to even out timers. This would allow you to add more Ballad + gear so the 10% lack of potency (1 tic?) is less noticable or negated

TL;DR yes the SV shenanigans is cute, and also shitty because of Honor March, but MC is hella nice for overwriting songs for your backline. It's the ultimate pianissimo tool

EDIT: Considering how niche ALL bonanza weapons are.... I think This use case more miracle cheer would see the most play in my lineup. Yagyu would almost never see play. Onion is cool for DNC yes.. but what does that let DNC do? Kalunga only?

In reality, it's *** that we cant EARN these "toy" weapons, because that's all they are. None of them break the 'meta', but theyre all cool and fun to play with for weird situations. We should be able to earn them from some dumb grind, even if it took 6 months. It's been long enough SE

Technically yes, but Ghorn "only" has CHR+10, Sing+25 and Wind+25

CHR gives different values of macc, we can round of around +10Macc
Sing converts at roughly 1:1 so around +25 macc.
Wind converts (estimated) at 1:0.3 so around 7.5 macc.

Overall ~42 macc which is, uhm, it's something. Maybe not an impressive % of your overall Macc when you're easily gonna get around ~1646 macc in your debuff song midcast set.

I mean sure ~42 is good, not sure I'd call it vital though. Wouldn't call BRD debuffs "vital" for most strategies these days anyway (have they ever?)
And let's not forget BRD has a mechanic that doubles your overall macc once every 10 mins, even more than Elemental Seal if you compare it to that.

And Sheol C.
But that's just a small part of it.
Onion Sword III, while maybe not as good as Naegling, is pretty close AND it's all jobs.
It's a fantastic weapon for any job, some of which can't use Naegling, and even if they can an incredibly interesting option to use on content with WS wall mechanics.

I dunno, most (all?) Bonanza Weapons are very nichey if you ask me, and from a certain point of view we could say that's good game design.
OSIII to me though seems a bit less niche than most other bonanza weapons, given the amount of jobs and situations it can be efficiently deployed in.
Jm2c of course.

Well, yes it's "only" 42 macc, but that's true of all other slots for all other jobs too and you don't often see people saying not to use BIS macc pieces on RDM because they're "only" 40 macc better than another piece. Song+ also increases potency/duration of debuffs too, so it's only "only" macc if you already have st5 prime.

I wouldn't riot if someone told me they don't carry around gjalla for BRD debuffing, but it does seem rather dumb to save 1 inventory by dropping macc.

Sure, nitro is great but also on a 10m cooldown so can't always be relied upon.

BRD debuffs are insane when they land. Lullaby can be the longest sleep in the game and is aoe, Elegy is a 50% slow that stacks with slow, threnodies are bonkers reductions to meva, and requiem is a decent DOT that also lasts forever, which can help a lot if you wipe. Finale ain't bad either and is sometimes essential to strats.

There are lots of times when debuffs can land without nitro but are tough to land and all the macc you can get is useful

Yeah but you don't cast Horde Lullaby I/II with Ghorn, tipically °-°

I get what you're saying, I was just trying to say that I'm a bit in the middle, with magic debuffs feeling a bit more consistant to me in the landing rate compared to songs (but then that's probably because of immunobreak rather than the direct consistency itself).

But in the end all these points are ultimately moot given how cheap and fast it is to make a Ghorn.

I'm hypothetically Team Onion Sword III as well, Sechs. However, Fast Blade II is Fusion, so actually the niche is a bit smaller than this because you can't use it as an alternative to Savage to dodge the WS wall in situations when you're trying to avoid skillchains.

Out of those weapons, I like the Katana one more

How is this even a debate? You get the katana and sell the account.

Last month during Iron Giant Ambuscade, I partied with a NIN who had the bonanza katana, and had absolutely no idea how to use it. He died within a few minutes because he didn't know how to do the basic function of cancelling shadows and apply lower tier ones when the higher tier was on cooldown. Wasn't sure of how to Yonin/hate spam shadows either, so he lost hate on a subsequent run after Frostnought unfroze. He also had no idea which Utsusemi tier to use to help the BRD/COR keep shadows active during the first phase. Nothing has made me want to bash my head right into a wall more than seeing that kind of Ninja Malpractice in real time. One glance at his gear and it was clear he had not invested that much time into NIN to begin with, so he had no business bothering to pick this weapon in the first place; he probably read how great it was from these forums and just went with that. He would have been better served picking Onion Sword III and spamming a cool new WS.

This is what you get when everyone says how great the Katana is. (I'd still pick the katana first, despite how infrequently NIN gets used for things)

Which jobs can't use Naegling? This needs to be kept in context, because, although Onion Sword III is "All Jobs", it's still going to be limited to jobs that have Sword skill, in order to get use out of it in modern content like Odyssey and Sortie (if we are talking about WS wall mechanics). You're not going to be using it on MNK, GEO, or SCH, are you? (actually Onion III/Kraken Club would be funny on MNK or WHM)

Naegling jobs:
Warrior / Red Mage / Thief / Paladin / Dark Knight / Beastmaster / Bard / Ranger / Ninja / Dragoon / Blue Mage / Corsair / Rune Fencer

Jobs with Sword Skill:
Paladin A+/ Blue Mage A+/ Rune Fencer A/ Red Mage B/ Warrior B/ Corsair B-/ Dark Knight C+/ Samurai C+/ Ninja C/ Bard C-/ Dragoon D/ Dancer D/ Ranger D/ Thief D/ Beastmaster E

Out of this list, only SAM and DNC have sword skill that can't use Naegling. There's no way in hell SAM is using Sword over it's GKT for anything, so "All Jobs" sword is really just a Dancer Slashing option, but that's also fine since DNC gets use out of Sortie now, so it's not a horrible decision to invest a weapon into it's now-meta status. Now you can say it's a cool Fusion option for jobs too that might lack it and get interesting new SC potential (Maybe BST using a certain pet or something else niche). All of these weapons are niche and provide very limited real-game-world uses, so I wouldn't necessarily put any one above another in terms of superiority.

I would pick Onion Sword so I could convince myself to pick up DNC. DRG does great with savage blade, so I don't see why they wouldn't want to lean into WSD traits that enhance additional hits as well as main hit like regular WSD gear while avoiding WS wall of savage bladers since I'm sure the WS wall is here to stay.

Onion Sword III is only 15 DEX and 19 sword skill more accurate than Naegling, so I'm sure COR and BRD aren't going to get off Naegling anytime soon. The trade off doesn't make sense for them. But the actual REMA sword users might want to use a sword if there is a WS wall. BLU gets a decent pass at the wall but I don't think I know a single BLU that hasn't complained that they don't have a fusion sword WS, much less a good one. And PLD and RDM has a large, unimpressive list of bad sword WSs that aren't savage blade, much less a 2nd one that isn't already tied to a weapon if they wanted to alternate to avoid walling.

WAR can force 100% double attack with it and do it while using fencer so you always(~minus miss chance) get 4 hits out of a 2 hitter even while single wielding. So 20 ftp on 80%DEX @ 1790tp without a subjob. You can still use Savage Blade because WAR gets it natively.

That's what I would use it for. And if I won a 2nd I'd probably toy with the idea of 5PDL+10%STR or 40MAB+10%INT on the other 2 swords. I don't play NIN. If I was NIN stan I'm sure I would want the katana. Same with BRDlife. The quantity of jobs that can use a weapon doesn't attract me so much that it could actually get used in serious content for things I enjoy playing.

I agree with this, I just don't see much use for it. I think it's one of those things that would be awesome in theory, but when you actually look at implementing it - you find there really aren't that many uses for it.

The enmity generation is amazing on it, but NIN's defensive tools aren't really potent enough in current era to mitigate damage via shadows the way it was in the past. So it can pull and hold hate with ease but then promptly die or take on way too much damage. Maybe if you /RUN or /PLD, but idk that you are bringing enough to the table for that alone. OTOH the utility of it is kindof offset by the enmity generation, how many times can you get shadows up on the whole party before you end up pulling hate, then running into the previous problem?

Maybe I'm wrong. AFAIK no one has made a real effort to try and tank Gaol bosses on NIN (we used it as an off tank for adds but never vs the main boss), maybe there is some use there I'm not considering, but with all the aoe damage and -aga's being thrown around, I can't imagine shadows being very useful there. Migawari is very good but I don't see a case where having Darkblade really allows you to leverage that more than you already do even w/ better hate generation. It just seems kindof useless for real content.

It seems like putting DNC in a more useful position by giving it a better second damage type would be a lot more useful given everything DNC brings to the table.


They probably see them as more useful than they actually are. I think most players would be better served with Rank 1 giving a full Prime or something the way early iterations of the Bonanza did with REMA weapons.

There was the chocobo shield and then the crafting shields came and afaik left chocobo shield completely in the dust. They'll probably do the same with Bonanza weapons eventually. Maybe it's what they currently building up to with besieged, who knows.

Most players would benefit more from a mythic/ergon R1 prize vs Bonanza weapons. The Bonanza weapons are all overvalued by SE and should probably be in like the Rank 2 category max. By comparison, a Yagrush or Idris is miles more valuable than a Diamond Aspis or Brave Blade, even if they can already be obtained through normal means.

Sorry, there are only Team Yagyu and Team Onion in this shipper thread.

And obviously Team Yagyu is the coolest, because Onion sucks.

So the real question is SE tells you tomorrow you can get a Bonanza Weapon if you whip out your credit card.

A)What's your price point if you're only allowed to buy 1 and what is it?

B)If the price starts at $25 and increases every time you purchase 1 by an additional $25, how many are you willing to go for and on which items? You're only allowed to make make a single purchase with all your items, so things that aren't picked up now can't be paid for later.

--
A) I think the most I would consider spending for a single bonanza weapon is $75 but I know I would say yes to anything under $150 without a real fight. It would be Onion Sword III.

B) I would definitely go Onion Sword and Diamond Aspis, so $25 + $50 = $75 for 2. For a 3rd weapon I'd be shelling out $75 and my total would be $150; I'd pick Hebo's Spear to use as a wyvern heal. I have no numbers for how much the Hebo's Spear heals your wyvern on jumps, so it could be very large buyer's remorse but I'm not willing to lock myself out of being able to play DRG because I got too cheap. FOMO at it's finest. I wouldn't buy a 4th for $100.

I don't think I would spend a penny on any Bonanza weapon, but who knows what I'd do.

I'd be very glad to spend 150€ on an item that gives you 3m Gallimaufry though, that you can only buy once.

It's not even close.

Even on WAR/DRG, which is most suited for this WS with it's massive DA rate, in capped attack scenario with Aria and Warcry (no SV), Naegling/Savage has 45% lead over Onion/FastBladeII. This gap is even bigger whenever attack is uncapped. Onion Sword III is good as slashing option for DNC, but it's not even close to what DNC would do with Naegling. It also has a poor synergy with Climactic Flourish.

EDIT: I chenged Naegling in sim to be able to use it on DNC. For high but not super overcapped attack, Naegling/Savage has 60% lead over Onion/FastII.