Enwater And Dahaks

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enwater and dahaks
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By Laboob 2022-06-09 14:35:06
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SimonSes said: »
The best solution is DRG w Naegling. One shots with Savage before any TP move ;) (even at 4th floor, especially with circle active).


yeah but a COR with autotarget on comes in and autos the one ur on with multi atk gear and feeds it TP. too risky
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By SimonSes 2022-06-09 15:18:00
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Laboob said: »
SimonSes said: »
The best solution is DRG w Naegling. One shots with Savage before any TP move ;) (even at 4th floor, especially with circle active).


yeah but a COR with autotarget on comes in and autos the one ur on with multi atk gear and feeds it TP. too risky

Rest of the group can simply go fight next mobs and DRG can solo. Also DRG's circle lets other jobs to one shot more reliably too. Blu is also safe option with Sudden Lunge. I guess BLU could also set up water bomb and spam it. Dahaks who would got hit with Silence would maybe TP move but not with nullsong and those who would resist silence would get tp reset -300 with every water bomb which should be enough to kill them safely.
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By llAKs0nll 2022-06-09 17:43:21
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Laboob said: »
SimonSes said: »
Asura.Sechs said: »
They claim they were using TP moves regularly, like Body Slam, it's just that it was never nullsong.
Coincidence?

Who said anything about them doing other TP moves? I don't see that in question. Also water damage doesn't block nullsong and also it's still possible to overcome that TP reset if enough people feed it with tp and not enough people reset TP with water damage (for example only one person having enwater).


I told him in our LS discord before asking here. A body slam did go off.
I go RDM/SCH and SCH/RDM nonstop and been using Enwater for months now and never once saw a TP move ever go off.

Someone hit the mob that didnt have Enwater on them trying to solo such or manually removed such.
SimonSes said: »
waffle said: »
For what it's worth, the jp wiki says water damage reduces their tp by 300. It also says that if you silence them (since that blocks the song tp moves) they gain a regain effect of 150 tp per tic while silenced.

This seems accurate and would explain my testimony
SimonSes said: »
(...) and also it's still possible to overcome that TP reset if enough people feed it with tp and not enough people reset TP with water damage (for example only one person having enwater).
....or indeed possibly that
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By Laboob 2022-06-09 18:48:50
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SimonSes said: »
Laboob said: »
SimonSes said: »
The best solution is DRG w Naegling. One shots with Savage before any TP move ;) (even at 4th floor, especially with circle active).


yeah but a COR with autotarget on comes in and autos the one ur on with multi atk gear and feeds it TP. too risky

Rest of the group can simply go fight next mobs and DRG can solo. Also DRG's circle lets other jobs to one shot more reliably too. Blu is also safe option with Sudden Lunge. I guess BLU could also set up water bomb and spam it. Dahaks who would got hit with Silence would maybe TP move but not with nullsong and those who would resist silence would get tp reset -300 with every water bomb which should be enough to kill them safely.


Open with gekko on SAM
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By klayy 2022-06-09 19:44:07
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or can just skip them, pick a better target. Guessing any group that cant kill dahaks safely isn't killing all the mobs in there anyway.
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By Valefor.Prothescar 2022-06-09 19:48:31
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SimonSes said: »
Laboob said: »
SimonSes said: »
The best solution is DRG w Naegling. One shots with Savage before any TP move ;) (even at 4th floor, especially with circle active).


yeah but a COR with autotarget on comes in and autos the one ur on with multi atk gear and feeds it TP. too risky

Rest of the group can simply go fight next mobs and DRG can solo. Also DRG's circle lets other jobs to one shot more reliably too. Blu is also safe option with Sudden Lunge. I guess BLU could also set up water bomb and spam it. Dahaks who would got hit with Silence would maybe TP move but not with nullsong and those who would resist silence would get tp reset -300 with every water bomb which should be enough to kill them safely.

I have 99% seen them do Nullsong with silence on. I think these ones ignore that restriction
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By Lakshmi.Buukki 2022-06-09 19:50:11
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Just have everyone face the same direction and autotarget the same monster (as terrible as that system is). Then use your WS at 75% at the same time. You shouldn't see any TP moves go off if you all work together. The same thing applies to Ameretats.
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By Laboob 2022-06-10 00:11:51
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klayy said: »
or can just skip them, pick a better target. Guessing any group that cant kill dahaks safely isn't killing all the mobs in there anyway.

its a safe way to do them if say, like in my original post, u get an agon with dahaks in it on the 4th floor. Good group or bad, null song will ruin a run.
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By klayy 2022-06-10 00:25:31
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Discretion is the better part of valor. What i enjoyed/still enjoy about Ody C as content is it forces you to improvise strategy on the fly. Moreso earlier before ML30, more Ody augs, etc, but unless it's the A team on their A jobs, we aren't gonna end up in a situation where skipping 1-2 groups of mobs is gonna leave time on the clock. Kinda prefer having to make decisions on what to kill, what to skip based on dmg types available, how much time is on the clock etc. Yeah its a bummer to miss a 4th floor halo due to bad mob but sometimes that's the right call. Often times you can kill the halo, pull back, maybe only get a few dahaks/clots. Other times the halo is in the worst spot and there's no way. One thing I've noticed is ego/epeens/whatever the case... unless you are literally going to kill everything, it's just stupid to fight something that makes you less efficient.
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By SimonSes 2022-06-10 03:59:17
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klayy said: »
Discretion is the better part of valor. What i enjoyed/still enjoy about Ody C as content is it forces you to improvise strategy on the fly. Moreso earlier before ML30, more Ody augs, etc, but unless it's the A team on their A jobs, we aren't gonna end up in a situation where skipping 1-2 groups of mobs is gonna leave time on the clock. Kinda prefer having to make decisions on what to kill, what to skip based on dmg types available, how much time is on the clock etc. Yeah its a bummer to miss a 4th floor halo due to bad mob but sometimes that's the right call. Often times you can kill the halo, pull back, maybe only get a few dahaks/clots. Other times the halo is in the worst spot and there's no way. One thing I've noticed is ego/epeens/whatever the case... unless you are literally going to kill everything, it's just stupid to fight something that makes you less efficient.

True, but we are trying to provide way of safe and efficient way of killing Dahaks and you are arguing like we are trying to mindlessly brute force them with risky strategies. DRG does like 80k+ Savage on Dahaks and one shots them from almost 100%HP. Stun from Sudden Lunge will last until Dahak is dead. Enwater from SCH will keep them at 0TP. This is also another reason to bring those jobs, tho DRG probably doesn't need help here since I think it's best DD (/dnc with Kraken club offhand) in C.
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By Asura.Nalfey 2022-06-10 04:36:38
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Actually on that note Simon I’m curious to hear your thoughts and experience about DRG/DNC Kclub ? I haven’t tried it since M.lvl 10, as I was seeing better results with sub WAR and Fencer.
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By SimonSes 2022-06-10 05:02:12
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Asura.Nalfey said: »
Actually on that note Simon I’m curious to hear your thoughts and experience about DRG/DNC Kclub ? I haven’t tried it since M.lvl 10, as I was seeing better results with sub WAR and Fencer.

Its totally broken. Savage one shots everything that don't resist slashing on all floors (beside beastmans and NMs ofc). TP gain is stupid. Soul/spirit jumps give 1500-3000TP. You only lose some dps when you need to switch to Polearm, but you switch very rarely, because if something that is slashing res can be killed with 2x Savage (almost anything), then it's probably as fast to do 2x Savage as it is to switch to Shining One and one shot with 2000+TP Impulse. Savage also one shots Flans on early floors, which I think takes less damage from physical and even less with spikes on head. White damage is low enough not to trigger spikes before Savage, so you can still hit them for 50k+. I think its simmilar case for Wamouracampa. The only problem really is lack of set like Malignance (Dt,meva,stp,acc), so sleepga might hit you quite often, but -DT is not really a problem, because white damage is too low to take hate away from tank and after Savage mob is simply dead :) Also it's not virtual damage like some jobs doing 2nd savage blade for 50k on mob that has 10k HP left. It's almost always one savage per mob (beside beastmens and Qutrubs) on mobs without slashing res and almost always 2x savage on slashing res mobs.

The only problem its a little outside of lore (DRG is still a knight tho ;)) and it's naegling bandwagon, but if you want to be efficient, then it's hard not to use it.

EDIT: Its important to go /dnc not /nin. DRG can reach 78.75% haste, so you only really need like 6% dual wield to 80% delay cap. /dnc provides 15%, which is already too much, but still much better than 25% from /nin. It would be amazing if you could get DWI trait from /blu, but sadly it's impossible ; ;
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By Asura.Nalfey 2022-06-10 07:13:33
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Very cool thanks for all the info. I’ll definitely try it out.
What does your engage set look like as sub DNC ?
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By SimonSes 2022-06-10 10:00:44
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Asura.Nalfey said: »
Very cool thanks for all the info. I’ll definitely try it out.
What does your engage set look like as sub DNC ?

ItemSet 384992
Like this, but I would use Volte Spats if I have them. Also there is few different body armor that are on similar level, like Volte Harness, Crepuscular Mail or Flamma +2, but I'm hoping that next month +2 empy body will be a clear winner for this since it already has +12 sTP, unless they will slap like 10%DA on it >.> (could be best even then tho).

R15 Vim's Torque is also way better offensively, but I kinda dislike that 50 tic dot too much. It could be good to wake you in sheol C tho.
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By Leviathan.Boposhopo 2022-06-10 11:05:25
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SimonSes said: »
Asura.Nalfey said: »
Very cool thanks for all the info. I’ll definitely try it out.
What does your engage set look like as sub DNC ?

ItemSet 384992
Like this, but I would use Volte Spats if I have them. Also there is few different body armor that are on similar level, like Volte Harness, Crepuscular Mail or Flamma +2, but I'm hoping that next month +2 empy body will be a clear winner for this since it already has +12 sTP, unless they will slap like 10%DA on it >.> (could be best even then tho).

R15 Vim's Torque is also way better offensively, but I kinda dislike that 50 tic dot too much. It could be good to wake you in sheol C tho.

Quick question on this incase I've had it wrong the whole time, but I thought Gleti's Pet +1 didn't effect the Wyvern? or is there a different reason for Gleti's Feet here?
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By Asura.Bynebill 2022-06-10 11:09:49
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Prob for the acc/pdt/mdb, looks like more of a hybrid set
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By Lakshmi.Buukki 2022-06-10 12:08:29
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Leviathan.Boposhopo said: »
SimonSes said: »
Asura.Nalfey said: »
Very cool thanks for all the info. I’ll definitely try it out.
What does your engage set look like as sub DNC ?

ItemSet 384992
Like this, but I would use Volte Spats if I have them. Also there is few different body armor that are on similar level, like Volte Harness, Crepuscular Mail or Flamma +2, but I'm hoping that next month +2 empy body will be a clear winner for this since it already has +12 sTP, unless they will slap like 10%DA on it >.> (could be best even then tho).

R15 Vim's Torque is also way better offensively, but I kinda dislike that 50 tic dot too much. It could be good to wake you in sheol C tho.

Quick question on this incase I've had it wrong the whole time, but I thought Gleti's Pet +1 didn't effect the Wyvern? or is there a different reason for Gleti's Feet here?

He says to use Volte Spats if you have them. Prob couldn't find any other decent STP feet, so just went with more attack/acc and PDT.
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By SimonSes 2022-06-10 12:59:11
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Lakshmi.Buukki said: »
He says to use Volte Spats if you have them. Prob couldn't find any other decent STP feet, so just went with more attack/acc and PDT.

Exactly. Remember even that DRG has high base acc, it's still non Ilvl club with E skill. You need accuracy. Another good offensive option would be valorous feet with high accuracy and stp augment.
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By Carbuncle.Maletaru 2022-06-10 14:55:19
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If you're looking for accuracy, why use Sailfi Belt over Ioskeha? Seems like 17 acc would beat the triple attack, especially considering the KClub
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By Lakshmi.Buukki 2022-06-10 15:22:17
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My guess is that Ioskeha (+1) also has DA8/9 vs R15 Sailfi +1's DA5. Multi-attack in general hurts Kraken Club's effectiveness a little bit, but DA does so more than TA. At least Triple Attack is closer to the average swing/round distribution, so any Triple Attack procs from Kraken Club aren't nearly as bad as if a Double Attack took its place.
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By SimonSes 2022-06-10 15:39:52
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Carbuncle.Maletaru said: »
If you're looking for accuracy, why use Sailfi Belt over Ioskeha? Seems like 17 acc would beat the triple attack, especially considering the KClub

Ioskeha is bad for the reason Buukki explained, but I actually forgot that DRG can use Klouskap Sash +1. In general if you dont need accuracy, then what you want is Sailfi+1 but without augment. Since it's rare/ex tho and it's also needed as R15, then I think Klouskap Sash +1 is best solution. You could technically go for Sailfi belt NQ too, but 1%TA isn't worth it over 20 acc.
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By Lakshmi.Buukki 2022-06-10 16:16:32
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Incursion is not too popular anymore, but can also fit Olseni Belt in there if you need the acc. STP compliments the club.
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By SimonSes 2022-06-10 16:28:51
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Lakshmi.Buukki said: »
Incursion is not too popular anymore, but can also fit Olseni Belt in there if you need the acc. STP compliments the club.

Not really. Thats what I usually do on for example RNG, but on DRG you actually need quite a lot of haste from waist slot, especially with Hjarrandi body. With 15%DW you need 76.5% haste, which means you need 22.75% from equip. Without belt you are only at 15%.
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By Asura.Disclai 2022-06-13 08:42:18
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SimonSes said: »
Asura.Nalfey said: »
Very cool thanks for all the info. I’ll definitely try it out.
What does your engage set look like as sub DNC ?

ItemSet 384992
Like this, but I would use Volte Spats if I have them. Also there is few different body armor that are on similar level, like Volte Harness, Crepuscular Mail or Flamma +2, but I'm hoping that next month +2 empy body will be a clear winner for this since it already has +12 sTP, unless they will slap like 10%DA on it >.> (could be best even then tho).

R15 Vim's Torque is also way better offensively, but I kinda dislike that 50 tic dot too much. It could be good to wake you in sheol C tho.

Unless I'm missing something, Sulevia's Mask +2 should be much better than Flamma; 4 more STP, 6% DT, no multi-attack, only 1% less haste. I'd also put in Dignitary's Earring over Dedition for a whopping 20 acc gain when needed.

Good call on Klouskap, though. Didn't even realize that existed.
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By SimonSes 2022-06-13 10:04:35
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Asura.Disclai said: »
Unless I'm missing something, Sulevia's Mask +2 should be much better than Flamma; 4 more STP, 6% DT, no multi-attack, only 1% less haste. I'd also put in Dignitary's Earring over Dedition for a whopping 20 acc gain when needed.

Good call on Klouskap, though. Didn't even realize that existed.

TA is slightly worse than avg on KC, but it's still very good for main hand. It also proc before Double Attack, which DRG has no matter what from wyvern bonus, so overall TA is good. Kinda hard to say if 5%TA would beat 4sTP tho. Sulevia is also 10acc less. Earring is for sure good acc swap.