What's Good About FFXI.

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What's good about FFXI.
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 Ragnarok.Jessikah
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By Ragnarok.Jessikah 2021-11-26 20:41:43
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It's probably been stated before, but it bears repeating. FFXI's lack of a (functional) auto-party system, its emphasis on overcoming challenging obstacles, and the time required to execute objectives all summed up to create a tight-knit community.

While a lot of things have changed since the game's heyday, the existing community still seems to foster a culture of guidance. That probably has a lot to do with its roots, as well as the community's desire to maintain population.

It helps as well having the horizontal growth and with each job having multiple ways to excel. Being known as a jerk among the community is a hamper on progress, and being helpful can speed things along.
 Asura.Skyekitty
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By Asura.Skyekitty 2021-11-26 20:51:32
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Quote:
Ragnarok.Jessikah said: »
Valefor.Furyspawn said: »
This sounds so much like Malignance, Crepuscular, and Pulse Panoplia. :')
Not gonna lie, I think if any game has any drop rate under like 20% they should instead opt to give you points to cash in. Or some other system that grants you extra drop "rolls" per consecutive blank. If your chances went from 1% to 2% to 4% to 8% (etc.) every time you didn't get the item, at least you'd know you're getting closer.

It's important to have that feeling of not wasting time. And while FFXI has gotten considerably better at that over the years, it's still not perfect.

Yeah, that always struck me as a decent solution to bad RNG. Grinding it out should improve your chances, or provide you with a currency to eventually buy the item directly.

I'm of a different mindset. I don't prefer systems like this. I understand the desire for a grind to pay off sooner rather than later, but I have never seen this system used in the right amounts for the right reasons. It is usually a system painted across everything that is challenging. "Didn't get lucky? Do it 10 more times and move on." I like the brutal RNG challenge of FFXI because it makes the reward seem so much more rewarding, rather than a cut and paste time sync. I want that moment where I get the Cait Sith crown on the first kill and although it sucks at the time, I love the stories of how it took me months to get my Malignance set while my friend got his in a week. This type of gameplay is the "flavor" that I desire.

I am of the mindset that FFXI, if updated with modern systems/graphics (not that I mind the current graphics) would be the best game ever made. I'm fine with my bias too. lol
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By Draylo 2021-11-26 21:45:57
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That's my opinion too, lol
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 Ragnarok.Jessikah
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By Ragnarok.Jessikah 2021-11-26 21:57:12
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That's fair. I also hope they touch very little about the game's overall mechanics. My only issue is stuff like that is crap like "FFXI doesn't respect your time" comes from. And while the existing system is great with its moments of victory, the argument is an objective observation. At least with a system such as slightly increasing the drop rate after each blank, it gives you a small feeling of not wasting your time.

I'm just thinking about it from the perspective of someone trying to insult FFXI. If your chances grew x1.01 every time you didn't get the drop, "doesn't respect your time" couldn't be an objective argument. By definition, you would always be rewarded with something of value. It could still take you 500 tries, but at least each attempt technically gets you closer.

Most arguments against XI are subjective, as they're usually design choices that have a reason to exist. The game automating the execution of GCDs (in the form of autoattacks) is a common example. Outsiders will use that to say the game is "slow", even though technically the game requires the same amount of meaningful input as others in the genre. Meanwhile, it frees the player to communicate, focus on strategy, or simply chill out a bit.
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By RadialArcana 2021-11-27 06:50:07
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Was reading about business divisions at Square Enix earlier.

Square Enix has multiple big divisions, run by different people and that compete with each other for new projects and money.

Business Division 1 is the main one, they make the biggest and most expensive titles they produce. Run by Yoshinori Kitase.

Buisness Division 5 is FFXIV, FFXI and Dragon Builders. The combined success of these games has allowed them to work on FFXVI and get bigger budgets across the board.

So actually from the main guys standpoint, he very much does want to promote all these games to do well. That is why XI is still getting updates (and why the mobile version of XI was cancelled) and stays true to what it is supposed to be.

https://finalfantasy.fandom.com/wiki/Creative_Business_Unit_III
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By Afania 2021-11-27 09:17:08
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Draylo said: »
We are a dying breed of gamers, that's the sad truth. The future of gamers is what the brainwashing companies want, short attention span gnats that buy up every dlc for that sweet glamour amd to stand out. People dont have patience for in depth games. I'm honestly surprised anytime a game like that comes along in this gen. Most of those gaming companies have been conditioning the masses into that mindset for a while. Fast and large quantities


The game mechanic of FFXIV fundamentally has more "mass appeal" no matter what era it is, IMO.

FFXIV gameplay is intuitive and easy to understand for most gamers. You equip something with numbers, then you got a new item with bigger numbers so you equip that instead. In battles if you see red lines you dodge it. If you get push out of arena you die. Every mechanics are clear and easy to understand.

If I'm going to bring a friend into FFXIV world, it wouldn't take more than a few hours to explain how FFXIV works. Once the player understand the mechanic it's on them to execute.

On the other hand, FFXI feels more like a stat based RPG to me. The gameplay of FFXI is mostly about knowing "FFXI math". Players need to understand how stats interacting with each others, caps for each stats etc.

Most gamers would probably prefer to play a game with stronger visual indication on game mechanics, such as FFXIV. Most gamers aren't interested in doing math for hours just to figure out which stat to focus or gears to use.

It has been that way even before FFXI released. Like how Diablo massively outsold Fallout before 2000, even though Fallout has pretty hardcore followers. Stat based RPG is forever niche and lacks mainstream appeal. That's how it goes.
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By llAKs0nll 2021-11-27 09:49:48
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Afania said: »
Draylo said: »
We are a dying breed of gamers, that's the sad truth. The future of gamers is what the brainwashing companies want, short attention span gnats that buy up every dlc for that sweet glamour amd to stand out. People dont have patience for in depth games. I'm honestly surprised anytime a game like that comes along in this gen. Most of those gaming companies have been conditioning the masses into that mindset for a while. Fast and large quantities


The game mechanic of FFXIV fundamentally has more "mass appeal" no matter what era it is, IMO.

FFXIV gameplay is intuitive and easy to understand for most gamers. You equip something with numbers, then you got a new item with bigger numbers so you equip that instead. In battles if you see red lines you dodge it. If you get push out of arena you die. Every mechanics are clear and easy to understand.

If I'm going to bring a friend into FFXIV world, it wouldn't take more than a few hours to explain how FFXIV works. Once the player understand the mechanic it's on them to execute.

On the other hand, FFXI feels more like a stat based RPG to me. The gameplay of FFXI is mostly about knowing "FFXI math". Players need to understand how stats interacting with each others, caps for each stats etc.

Most gamers would probably prefer to play a game with stronger visual indication on game mechanics, such as FFXIV. Most gamers aren't interested in doing math for hours just to figure out which stat to focus or gears to use.

It has been that way even before FFXI released. Like how Diablo massively outsold Fallout before 2000, even though Fallout has pretty hardcore followers. Stat based RPG is forever niche and lacks mainstream appeal. That's how it goes.

FFXIV is still a Stats Based Gear driven game. It’s just a watered down version rendition of FFXI. Since……

1 ) There are no WS
2 ) There are no JA
3 ) There are no 2 HR
4 ) There are no Job Traits

So nothing Enhances 1 — 4 making every Gear piece the same other than Stat Values being the only differential.

At least that was my experience in FFXIV when reaching Lv40 and quitting game.

There also are no such thing as Macros in FFXIV.
They replaced Macros w/ simple Timers for Generic attacks
https://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/jobguide/redmage/
EDIT : I guess they do call such “WS” but they are just Timers that you cycle through nonstop hitting w/o any thought about such.

There’s no need for Macros in FFXIV since everything is just a Timer and Gear doesn’t need to be swapped. 1 piece is always better than the other no matter what Timer you hit.
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By llAKs0nll 2021-11-27 10:21:03
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Afania said: »
The game mechanic of FFXIV fundamentally has more "mass appeal" no matter what era it is, IMO.

Button Masher gaming w/ a pallet of Timers = FFXIV
https://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/jobguide/ninja/

There’s no Strategy in anything you do w/ your Timers.
You just cycle through them nonstop & repeat until something dies.

Correct me if I am wrong but FFXIV is a very sad version of FFXI for braindead mindless combat that requires absolutely zero Strategy whatsoever other than “Run Away from Red Lines”

Maybe I’m ignorant cuz I stopped playing 14 but what I did experience was what I claim. While what I LINK and looked into didn’t change my opinion.

Unless I’m Wrong?

I linked RDM and NIN cuz those are my Mains in FFXI and in FFXIV I alrdy know they are a version of such I would never be interested in playing.
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By Asura.Skyekitty 2021-11-27 10:59:41
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As someone who has raided in FF14 on every tier and has played virtually all the content it has produced, I prefer FFXI hands down. That being said, I would not call it very sad or brain dead. Just because it requires an active fighting system (Key mashing) and that the moves to dodge are telegraphed (the red lines) doesn't mean it doesn't still require timing and reaction or skill.

To me comparing the two games is like comparing Motorcycles (FFXI) to Cars (FFXIV). They both provide transportation and get you from A to B, but they do so in obviously different ways (the experience).

Even though most people prefer a car, there will always be those who enjoy the motorcycle because of various reasons (thrill, price, expectation, feel, allure, etc.) but that doesn't mean a car is too mainstream or a motorcycle is invalid.

Just enough in common to make comparisons, but really provide a different experience that makes the comparisons seem irrelevant to most arguments.

Most people who grow up with a motorcycle in their life continue to have motorcycles in their life (FFXI).

That is an abstract analogy, but I thought it would paint my thoughts well enough.
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 Asura.Saevel
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By Asura.Saevel 2021-11-27 11:28:22
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llAKs0nll said: »
Correct me if I am wrong but FFXIV is a very sad version of FFXI for braindead mindless combat that requires absolutely zero Strategy whatsoever other than “Run Away from Red Lines”

Yes your wrong, and I suspect trolling folks.

It's not just rolling your face on the keyboard, that's how you die in the earliest main story fights, much less the harder content.

Because the gearing aspect of FFXIV is linear and standardized, all the design work goes into fight mechanics. It's a bunch of move here, now move here, move back over there, ok get away from people, ok gather up, ok DPS from behind the boss, now DPS from the side of the boss, and so forth. Depending on the difficulty of the fight, making a mistake will either impair the group or straight up wipe the entire fire.

FFXI's "fight" difficulty mostly consists of buffing up then spamming powerful WS's, currently it's Savage Blade, until the boss falls over. Most of the "difficulty" is in writing lua's and react files, making gearsets and selecting the correct buffs and debuffs for the fight.

Both games are exact opposites in battle design, one is 10/90 pre-fight/fight work while the other is 90/10 pre-fight/fight. Not really comparable.
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By Mattelot 2021-11-27 11:40:17
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I've done all the hard fights in FFXIV and when people talk about how much harder they are, I know they've either never played anything harder, or they're flat-out lying/trolling. You'll never convince me otherwise. Most of the time, the game flat out tells you where something is going to hit with floor markings, etc. There is little in the realm of actual strategy.

I can't imagine one of those people trying a game that actually does involve real strategy. They'd be so confounded...
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By Asura.Saevel 2021-11-27 11:40:38
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One thing I prefer on FFXIV over FFXI is they have way more flexibility in party composition. As weird as that sounds, considering how pre-built their party finder and quest designs are, they didn't make the mistake of throwing stacking over powered buffs into a small selection of jobs. The decision to throw so much buffing power into Bard / Corsair and later Geomancy has forced FFXI's design team to build every battle around having those jobs present. Couple that with only one job having access to decent AoE healing has locked four out of six party slots.

Practically all content is done with this template

Tank / DD
DD
COR
BRD
GEO
WHM

We just can't beat the kind of power that stacking BRD songs, COR rolls and GEO bubbles does to everyone.

Thankfully the recent ML system has opened up the healer slot a bit with Curaga III now being available to both RDM and SCH giving the ability to instant respond to the large AoE damage from boss's TP moves. They've been dealing with GEO by giving boss's resistance to the offensive bubbles, it's still powerful but occasionally replaceable if you can get everything from COR and BRD.
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By llAKs0nll 2021-11-27 12:22:56
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Asura.Saevel said: »
llAKs0nll said: »
Correct me if I am wrong but FFXIV is a very sad version of FFXI for braindead mindless combat that requires absolutely zero Strategy whatsoever other than “Run Away from Red Lines”

Yes your wrong, and I suspect trolling folks.

It's not just rolling your face on the keyboard, that's how you die in the earliest main story fights, much less the harder content.

Because the gearing aspect of FFXIV is linear and standardized, all the design work goes into fight mechanics. It's a bunch of move here, now move here, move back over there, ok get away from people, ok gather up, ok DPS from behind the boss, now DPS from the side of the boss, and so forth. Depending on the difficulty of the fight, making a mistake will either impair the group or straight up wipe the entire fire.

FFXI's "fight" difficulty mostly consists of buffing up then spamming powerful WS's, currently it's Savage Blade, until the boss falls over. Most of the "difficulty" is in writing lua's and react files, making gearsets and selecting the correct buffs and debuffs for the fight.

Both games are exact opposites in battle design, one is 10/90 pre-fight/fight work while the other is 90/10 pre-fight/fight. Not really comparable.

Then I am NOT wrong…..

You just repeated what I said about
”Run Away from Red Lines”

That’s the Core gameplay & there is absolutely ZERO Strategy in the Design of the Combat via differential in Jobs to compare to FFXI

FFXIV is not even played like an actual FINAL FANTASY game.
The gameplay in FFXIV is taken directly out of WoW.
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By llAKs0nll 2021-11-27 12:28:37
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Asura.Saevel said: »
Practically all content is done with this template

Tank / DD
DD
COR
BRD
GEO
WHM

We just can't beat the kind of power that stacking BRD songs, COR rolls and GEO bubbles does to everyone.

Yet FFXI has had plenty of Content in the Past where Stun Locking was necessary as well as BLM using MB as well as Embrava.

You know that’s not ALL that FFXI has to offer…….

None of the Above is in FFXIV

Everything amazing about FFXI is missing in FFXIV
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By Afania 2021-11-27 12:45:45
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llAKs0nll said: »

So nothing Enhances 1 — 4 making every Gear piece the same other than Stat Values being the only differential.


What I meant is there are no decision making when it comes to choosing gears in XIV. So it's not "rpg" enough without choice involved since traditional RPG is all about making choiced with stats.
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By Mattelot 2021-11-27 13:02:55
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llAKs0nll said: »
Then I am NOT wrong…..

You just repeated what I said about
”Run Away from Red Lines”

That’s the Core gameplay & there is absolutely ZERO Strategy in the Design of the Combat via differential in Jobs to compare to FFXI

FFXIV is not even played like an actual FINAL FANTASY game.
The gameplay in FFXIV is taken directly out of WoW.

You're not wrong what-so-ever. I'm not targetting anyone in particular but FFXIV fanboys are too tunnel-visioned to know what strategy is. They think moving out of an AoE that the game shows you where it'll hit by flashing all over the ground is a strategy. If they get in a fight where they cannot just hit 1,2,3.. they think it's strategy.

I'm not saying FFXIV is not a fun game because I did have a lot of fun playing MCH. But when people talk about that game and strategy, I think "lol..."
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 Asura.Saevel
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By Asura.Saevel 2021-11-27 13:14:01
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Riiight....

Jesus the haters are out in force today, and the proper response to haters is.

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By Mattelot 2021-11-27 13:34:39
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I'm not a hater. I clearly said I had fun playing it.

I don't know why XIV players call anybody who isn't a shill a "hater". I don't mean that as an insult either. Unless people are overly enthusiastic about the game to the point where they flat out lie about things, they get called a hater. Did the meaning of that word mutate recently or something?
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By llAKs0nll 2021-11-27 13:57:09
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Mattelot said: »
llAKs0nll said: »
Then I am NOT wrong…..

You just repeated what I said about
”Run Away from Red Lines”

That’s the Core gameplay & there is absolutely ZERO Strategy in the Design of the Combat via differential in Jobs to compare to FFXI

FFXIV is not even played like an actual FINAL FANTASY game.
The gameplay in FFXIV is taken directly out of WoW.

You're not wrong what-so-ever. I'm not targetting anyone in particular but FFXIV fanboys are too tunnel-visioned to know what strategy is. They think moving out of an AoE that the game shows you where it'll hit by flashing all over the ground is a strategy. If they get in a fight where they cannot just hit 1,2,3.. they think it's strategy.

I'm not saying FFXIV is not a fun game because I did have a lot of fun playing MCH. But when people talk about that game and strategy, I think "lol..."

I remember the 1st time seeing a Trailer for FFXI w/ a Party all riding Chocobo through La Theine Plateau coming down the hills.

Just the notion of a FF game being Online immediately blow my mind.

By this point I had alrdy started playing via a FREE Demo on XB360 but hadn’t gained access to Chocobo License yet.

FFXIV never once offers the same overwhelming excitement achieved via initially playing FFXI. There’s no need to even Party to Level Up. There’s little to no Danger in the process of Soloing at all whatsoever.

I quit FFXI and hadn’t played since 2016 but it’s still my favorite Game ever made so Returned once I realized FFXI was still alive & SJ cap breaking.
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By Mattelot 2021-11-27 14:04:29
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I had some fun playing it but my biggest beef is the homogenization. While I get it, it makes it easier to program for, etc but you lose the classic FF job feeling. When I play a RDM, I don't feel like a RDM. I feel like a BLM with different aesthetic spells, even worse as a BLU.
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By Siren.Obysuca 2021-11-27 14:06:41
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Afania said: »
FFXIV gameplay is intuitive and easy to understand for most gamers. You equip something with numbers, then you got a new item with bigger numbers so you equip that instead. In battles if you see red lines you dodge it. If you get push out of arena you die. Every mechanics are clear and easy to understand.

And yet, the vast majority of XIV's playerbase has trouble with that lol I can't tell you how many times I've gone into an ex fight and almost half the pt wipes to the very first mechanic over and over and over and over again...(Shinryu's tidal wave, 10 seconds into the fight, for example) or someone with the current best gear parses less than the healer/tanks.


Mattelot said: »
I've done all the hard fights in FFXIV and when people talk about how much harder they are, I know they've either never played anything harder, or they're flat-out lying/trolling. You'll never convince me otherwise. Most of the time, the game flat out tells you where something is going to hit with floor markings, etc. There is little in the realm of actual strategy.

I can't imagine one of those people trying a game that actually does involve real strategy. They'd be so confounded...

I find it funny how a lot of the big WoW streamers that are coming over to XIV, keep talking about how hard XIV's content is and it makes me wonder, as someone who's never played WoW. Is WoW a game for children, if they consider XIV hard?
Because honestly, the hardest part of XIV, is the other 3-7 people in your party.
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By Valefor.Prothescar 2021-11-27 14:09:13
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Mattelot said: »
llAKs0nll said: »
Then I am NOT wrong…..

You just repeated what I said about
”Run Away from Red Lines”

That’s the Core gameplay & there is absolutely ZERO Strategy in the Design of the Combat via differential in Jobs to compare to FFXI

FFXIV is not even played like an actual FINAL FANTASY game.
The gameplay in FFXIV is taken directly out of WoW.

You're not wrong what-so-ever. I'm not targetting anyone in particular but FFXIV fanboys are too tunnel-visioned to know what strategy is. They think moving out of an AoE that the game shows you where it'll hit by flashing all over the ground is a strategy. If they get in a fight where they cannot just hit 1,2,3.. they think it's strategy.

I'm not saying FFXIV is not a fun game because I did have a lot of fun playing MCH. But when people talk about that game and strategy, I think "lol..."

I swore off engaging with people like you on here because it is often pointless but this is just bothering me way too much: It's interesting to me that you claim to have done all of the hardest fights in XIV while subsequently being oblivious to the fact that the hardest mechanics in Savage and Ultimate fights don't have visual telegraphs.

There are even mechanics in UCoB that require you to memorize lines that the boss speaks in order to know which attacks she's about to do.



Ultimately these conversations boil down to FFXI only acolytes saying FFXIV is 2 dimensional and a game made for toddlers while FFXIV only acolytes talk about how old and clumsy XI is. It's almost like both games have their merits and both games have some glaring weaknesses and neither is better than the other. That said it is impossible to argue that one does not hold the same mass appeal as the other, and there are very obvious reasons for that.
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By llAKs0nll 2021-11-27 14:19:36
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Valefor.Prothescar said: »
Mattelot said: »
llAKs0nll said: »
Then I am NOT wrong…..

You just repeated what I said about
”Run Away from Red Lines”

That’s the Core gameplay & there is absolutely ZERO Strategy in the Design of the Combat via differential in Jobs to compare to FFXI

FFXIV is not even played like an actual FINAL FANTASY game.
The gameplay in FFXIV is taken directly out of WoW.

You're not wrong what-so-ever. I'm not targetting anyone in particular but FFXIV fanboys are too tunnel-visioned to know what strategy is. They think moving out of an AoE that the game shows you where it'll hit by flashing all over the ground is a strategy. If they get in a fight where they cannot just hit 1,2,3.. they think it's strategy.

I'm not saying FFXIV is not a fun game because I did have a lot of fun playing MCH. But when people talk about that game and strategy, I think "lol..."

I swore off engaging with people like you on here because it is often pointless but this is just bothering me way too much: It's interesting to me that you claim to have done all of the hardest fights in XIV while subsequently being oblivious to the fact that the hardest mechanics in Savage and Ultimate fights don't have telegraphs.

There are even mechanics in UCoB that require you to memorize lines that the boss speaks in order to know which attacks she's about to do.



Ultimately these conversations boil down to FFXI only acolytes saying FFXIV is 2 dimensional and a game made for toddlers while FFXIV only acolytes talk about how old and clumsy XI is. It's almost like both games have their merits and both games have some glaring weaknesses and neither is better than the other. That said it is impossible to argue that one does not hold the same mass appeal as the other, and there are very obvious reasons for that.

You literally just claimed Dialogue as a Mechanic FTW in FFXIV.

Not a 2 HR Ability
Not a PLD using Invincible
Not a RDM using CSS
Not a SCH tandem Stun Locking
Not a NIN mitigating Dmg via Migawari

Dialogue……

“FFXIV — the Best Dialogue Combat of all the FF games”
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By Valefor.Prothescar 2021-11-27 14:25:11
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One of the most braindead reductions of a sentence that I've ever seen, bravo.
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By llAKs0nll 2021-11-27 14:31:32
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Valefor.Prothescar said: »
One of the most braindead reductions of a sentence that I've ever seen, bravo.

My mistake…..

“Best Dialogue to avoid RED LINES in the Final Fantasy series”

Same gimmick from start to finish — Avoid the Red Lines FTW
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By Asura.Aeonova 2021-11-27 14:31:43
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llAKs0nll said: »
“FFXIV — the Best Dialogue Combat of all the FF games”

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By Valefor.Prothescar 2021-11-27 14:32:09
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By Mattelot 2021-11-27 14:32:40
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Siren.Obysuca said: »
I find it funny how a lot of the big WoW streamers that are coming over to XIV, keep talking about how hard XIV's content is and it makes me wonder, as someone who's never played WoW. Is WoW a game for children, if they consider XIV hard?
Because honestly, the hardest part of XIV, is the other 3-7 people in your party.

Never listen to WoW streamers. Any smart WoW veteran will tell you the same thing. They'll shill for whatever they're getting paid for. If I had a nickel for each lie they've spewed and got called out for on the forums, I could buy you and I a Series X.

Valefor.Prothescar said: »
It's interesting to me that you claim to have done all of the hardest fights in XIV while subsequently being oblivious to the fact that the hardest mechanics in Savage and Ultimate fights don't have telegraphs.

Nobody jumps immediately into savage or ultimate. Once you've done the previous, the later are just "harder". They're by no means "strategic".

Should have went with your first instinct

Valefor.Prothescar said: »
I swore off engaging
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By Asura.Aeonova 2021-11-27 14:34:53
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Valefor.Prothescar said: »
I swore off engaging

Do I want to get involved though?

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By llAKs0nll 2021-11-27 14:35:08
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FFXIV is literally terrible compared to FFXI is the Problem.

Compared to WoW yeah I guess FFXIV is the GOAT.
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