|
Gaol: Unplayable content because of lag
By RadialArcana 2021-02-13 06:37:16
On Asura you can often go into Mhaura or port jeuno and see your R go upto 3.5k, just from all the people.
It makes sense there, it doesn't make sense in content with so few though.
Server: Odin
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1,185
By Odin.Senaki 2021-02-13 06:43:51
I went in yesterday evening for and did experience lag. Like it was indeed noticeable. But I was only have 1-2 second delays. It wasn't game breaking.
That being said, I only did A1 (Attonement 1) content. It's possible with the fetters of A3 that it will cause a lag fest.
Asura.Wotasu
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 358
By Asura.Wotasu 2021-02-13 08:24:41
I went in yesterday evening for and did experience lag. Like it was indeed noticeable. But I was only have 1-2 second delays. It wasn't game breaking.
That being said, I only did A1 (Attonement 1) content. It's possible with the fetters of A3 that it will cause a lag fest. My 5-7sec delays are on T1-2, I have yet to enter T3. I have 0 issues with Lilliths Fetters.
[+]
Asura.Eiryl
By Asura.Eiryl 2021-02-13 08:30:26
Is it not simply the fact that the RP bars are being monitored constantly (because they did something really dumb when programming these rp systems)
Someone mentioned that, it at least has merit. It's not like delve and abj. it's constantly scanning for "should I be awarding points yet" Just more than 20 year old equipment can handle.
Shiva.Thorny
Server: Shiva
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3,331
By Shiva.Thorny 2021-02-13 08:43:38
Is it not simply the fact that the RP bars are being monitored constantly (because they did something really dumb when programming these rp systems)
It's entirely possible, but it doesn't really help to know unless we're right and SE is able to both listen and patch it based on that recommendation. The problem is originating on the server, so we can't do anything about it from this side. And, we have no way to confirm it ourselves.
Asura.Eiryl
By Asura.Eiryl 2021-02-13 08:45:29
Of course, it's just instead of infighting about graphics cards and servers and ram and settings and time of day and job you were on and all that ***, focus on square.
Shiva.Thorny
Server: Shiva
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3,331
By Shiva.Thorny 2021-02-13 08:46:30
Said that pages ago, people can't read/comprehend. If you're getting 10+ fps, a 5 second lag isn't your pc.
[+]
By RadialArcana 2021-02-13 09:54:37
I went in yesterday evening for and did experience lag. Like it was indeed noticeable. But I was only have 1-2 second delays. It wasn't game breaking.
That being said, I only did A1 (Attonement 1) content. It's possible with the fetters of A3 that it will cause a lag fest. My 5-7sec delays are on T1-2, I have yet to enter T3. I have 0 issues with Lilliths Fetters.
Guessing no lag like this in normal Walk of Echoes from Xca [s]?
I get near no lag at all in there, and im from the uk
Asura.Wotasu
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 358
By Asura.Wotasu 2021-02-13 10:02:58
Nope normal WoE is lag free as well, even multiboxing, have yet to bring alts along for Gaol.
[+]
Bahamut.Harribel
Server: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 7
By Bahamut.Harribel 2021-02-13 10:21:34
Yeah I've never had lag in WoE even during events with loads of people in there and multiboxing.
[+]
By RadialArcana 2021-02-13 10:24:08
Ejin is running 4 characters in there with no lag.
Server: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3,753
By Leviathan.Celebrindal 2021-02-13 10:33:16
made the mistake of taking RNG in solo to some Atonement 1 to compare shooting in there vs Dyna-D with a full alliance. Did everything I could think of on my end of things to help- no effects, no extraneous other programs running at the same time (browsers, spotify, etc). I have no clue if these had real effect on performance, but figured they couldn't hurt.
All this vs my typical Dyna-D arrangement of a browser window open, spotify, discord, etc all in the background.
In Dyna-D I can shoot with normal reactions almost all the time. I do run the directX proxy, not full DGvoodoo.
Solo in Atonement 1 I had so much lag between macro action and the shooting animation it became impossible to self-chain even with flurry2+doubleshot up...honestly something I've never encountered anywhere else in game- ever. I also experienced the lagging DoT damage that continued after exiting but I had no icon for a DoT, just dropping HP.
At least based on what I experienced in there, I cannot begin to imagine trying to attempt the highest levels of Vengeance and fighting not only the mob, but also this bad design. Its artificial difficulty based on poor execution of the concept by SE- not difficulty using the actual game.
Lakshmi.Buukki
Server: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
By Lakshmi.Buukki 2021-02-13 10:38:43
Shouldn't it have something to do with the fact that they added a Moogle to the zone? They've never done that before and I would imagine the zone having to load several bags of inventory plus the monsters would be a problem.
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3,185
By Asura.Geriond 2021-02-13 10:43:42
The game already loads all the inventory anyway, since you have the ability to see what is in your various safes. It shouldn't affect it much if at all.
Lakshmi.Buukki
Server: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
By Lakshmi.Buukki 2021-02-13 10:48:17
That's true. I guess I was thinking there might be some additional strain from having an actual Moogle there that can change your job as well as allow access to your bags that would contribute to the lag. That's the only thing I can think of that makes Gaol different from any other zone in the game.
By RadialArcana 2021-02-13 10:54:18
I had a serious issue in Dyna D with my other computer of similar spec to my main, I thought it was linked to the AMD cpu or a USB issue with the keyboard at the time.
My FPS wasn't dropping, it was just not performing actions when I pressed the macro and skipping to the end of the animation when it did (would try to cure, it would not do it and then 3-5 seconds when it did it would skip half way into the cure animation with my arm in the air). Sometimes my action didn't go off at all and I had to press the macro again.
I lessened it somewhat by turning off shadows, turning off weather, going into config > effects and turning lots of them to on, and also config > misc > pc armor to static so everyone was wearing level 1 armor. That made it at least playable.
Problem is, I didn't do Dyna D that much in an alliance so I don't know if these things actually helped or if the server issue wasn't happening on the second run.
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3,185
By Asura.Geriond 2021-02-13 10:54:33
My personal guess is that it's calculating how much RP an enemy will give (since it's based on HP remaining if you time out) extremely often instead of only when you actually get kicked out.
Like, for example, it could be doing something like this:
10 ms: NM will give 0 RP.
20 ms: Did it take damage? No. NM will give 0 RP.
30 ms: Did it take damage? Yes. NM updated to give 2 RP.
40 ms: Did it take damage? No. NM will give 2 RP.
50 ms: Did it take damage? Yes. NM updated to give 9 RP.
Doing that a hundred, thousand, or ten thousand times per second could add a lot to the zone's data load. It might even be updating your actual RP in real time even though you can't access it until you leave.
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3,113
By Asura.Aeonova 2021-02-13 11:28:59
What a great system.
By Torzak 2021-02-13 13:57:01
My 5-7sec delays are on T1-2, I have yet to enter T3. I have 0 issues with Lilliths Fetters.
I agree with this. The issues I'm seeing are on T1 & T2 so far - I haven't tried T3 yet. And I also have no issues with the Lillith fight, at all. And I did that on all difficulties with various people across several weeks.
The game already loads all the inventory anyway, since you have the ability to see what is in your various safes. It shouldn't affect it much if at all.
For me, first logging into the Game & into Mog House, R immediately starts around 200 for a second and then goes up to 800 while bags load. Once bags load, sitting idle in the Mog House S(end) is at 158/181 and R is at 114/130 with rare blips up to 160. It doesn't seem to me that the Moogle itself is worth a significant amount of received packets.
On Asura you can often go into Mhaura or port jeuno and see your R go upto 3.5k, just from all the people.
Zoning into Mhaura I saw a spike up to 3.2k. It was mostly around 2700, though. I casted Stoneskin while bags were loading and the spell's cast responded immediately with zero lag. With 25+ people in my frontal view, and after bags were done loading, R was around 500 to 900 for the most part sitting idle in Mhaura.
My personal guess is that it's calculating how much RP an enemy will give (since it's based on HP remaining if you time out) extremely often
This is probably our best guess at this point. Only two pieces of content in the game exhibit this kind of lag up to this point. DynaD & Odyssey, both of which use an RP system based on HP removed/Boss Kill.
Asura.Wotasu
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 358
By Asura.Wotasu 2021-02-13 14:19:53
I tried T3 just now, Camera got locked at spawn point which was fun since I was tank. Then latency fk us up royaly even more.
As is, no new equip for me and my group until this is fixed :/
Lakshmi.Buukki
Server: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
By Lakshmi.Buukki 2021-02-13 14:22:11
A member of our party had that camera lock glitch happened in the boss area and I saw a comment on the OF mentioning that. I wonder if using xicamera unlocks it
Bismarck.Indigla
Server: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 345
By Bismarck.Indigla 2021-02-13 16:15:23
Log out/in fixes it, but it sucks if your party is already throwing up songs/rolls.
Bismarck.Nyaarun
Server: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1,006
By Bismarck.Nyaarun 2021-02-13 16:40:50
My personal guess is that it's calculating how much RP an enemy will give (since it's based on HP remaining if you time out) extremely often instead of only when you actually get kicked out.
Like, for example, it could be doing something like this:
10 ms: NM will give 0 RP.
20 ms: Did it take damage? No. NM will give 0 RP.
30 ms: Did it take damage? Yes. NM updated to give 2 RP.
40 ms: Did it take damage? No. NM will give 2 RP.
50 ms: Did it take damage? Yes. NM updated to give 9 RP.
Doing that a hundred, thousand, or ten thousand times per second could add a lot to the zone's data load. It might even be updating your actual RP in real time even though you can't access it until you leave.
You'd figure if that were the case it would only check the NM's HP when you get kicked out/leave.
By klayy 2021-02-13 16:54:52
My lag in Gaol is usually playable like 2-3 seconds dely.. but during higher traffic times (NA primetime, weekends) its spiked up to 6-8 seconds and is literally unplayable. Was on DRG earlier, saw the wyvern was at 20% HP maybe hit spirit link.. 5-6 seconds later, wyvern died... and then spirit link goes off. Just terrible. Also my WHM alt, which literally never has MP issues over the course of 30-minute or even 2-hour events, was dry of MP within a few minutes. I had to lock in empy legs to try get around this. Frustrating but for now just gonna avoid NA primetime and weekends. I guess the tip about testing yourl atency in the lobby area is valid. Can at least leave and not lose a KI if it feels bad at that point. But yeah, trying to get recent "taking a break" people to get back into things and this really doesn't help those efforts.
Ragnarok.Tylas
Server: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 59
By Ragnarok.Tylas 2021-02-13 16:56:06
Hai '_'/
I've been having the same lag issues in Gaol as a lot of people here it seems. After waiting for a month, hoping SE would do something I decided to investigate myself.
I wrote a simple addon that counts how often each type of packet is sent to the client. And I did notice that a certain packet is sent an awful lot of times.
Packet 170 seems to be the spell list, as seen in this packet dump.
Now why would SE send us the spell list over and over? Especially to a samurai, which was the job I used during testing. I'm just guessing here, but they do have that feature in Gaol where a trust you used disappears from the list. And a SAM does have trusts, which count as spells. Now maybe they were so smart that they update the list over and over instead of only sending it when something actually changes.
Another interesting observation was that when you open the boss selection menu in the Gaol lobby, the lag disappears and gear/inventory loads fast. You can also see that the R count at the top right of the screen drops to 300ish from the usual 3000 cap you get in Gaol. And I didn't count any packet 170s while in the menu. Coincidence? I think not.
To be sure this isn't just normal behavior I ran a count inside Ambuscade and never got the 170 packet. Upon zoning it was sent a few times, which would be expected to load the spell list at that point.
So does anyone have a smart idea how to send this info to SE without getting a ban? Cause admitting to use addons is a big no-no to them.
Server: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1,410
By Fenrir.Melphina 2021-02-13 17:08:51
Quote: Now why would SE send us the spell list over and over?
Just to hazard a guess, but every job can use trust magic. Could they simply be keeping your client informed of what trusts you have available to summon and which ones are on cooldown? I don't know how they have the server-client communications coded, but shouldn't it be a normal procedure to let the client know when job abilities and spell cooldowns are ready for use?
I could be completely off base here, but that's one reason for the server to communicate a spell list to your client to keep it in sync.
[+]
Server: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3,753
By Leviathan.Celebrindal 2021-02-13 17:13:20
Could be related to the no-repeat usage of trusts in subsequent runs.
Asura.Eiryl
By Asura.Eiryl 2021-02-13 17:25:42
It's because you can call trust mid battle, and they have to keep telling your client you can't call one that was already called.
Seems fair enough.
Easy fix, drop that *** can't recall the same trust. it's dumb anyway.
As far as: how to without ban, it's actually impossible, just let someone who has more than one account eat the ban. It's only a forum ban anyway, 2boxes don't need forum access.
By RadialArcana 2021-02-13 17:31:24
The problem is, not everyone gets this lag so it can't be as simple as a bad mechanic. Something is going wrong for some people.
By RadialArcana 2021-02-13 17:34:20
Something that only a few people enable that sends a lot of data about your whole parties buffs / debuffs is /statusparty.
I doubt it's enough to cause this amount of lag but it's possible?
So gameplay lag has become a big issue for most of the players in my circle, and it seems to be somehow just accepted and not challenged much. Whether this is because in Japan the effects are not as bad or even noticeable we don't know.
Lag can be caused by a lot of things, but I think it's important here to separate a few major types.
1. Lag caused by your gaming setup, poor performance PC or internet connection.
2. Lag caused by congestion at the SE end, exacerbated by your distance from the servers.
Ever since D-Dyna introduced the ranking system where you had the on-screen counter for your rank items, it seems SE have reached a server side limit where lag is unavoidable even on the fastest internet and PC.
You can just about live with it in d-dyna but it kills the fun of being able to react and play well like we've learned to do in older content areas (stunning a TP moves, re-casting utsusemi, curing someone about to die etc).
Then Odyssey came out and right from the get-go similar lag exists in the Sheol A, B and C areas. A good test of lag is to do an emote to another player and see how long it takes to show in the log. D-Dyna and Sheol seem to be 1-2s extra lag than normal, but sometimes even worse for certain players.
Now we have Gaol and the lag has gone off the charts. We enter with 6 players and some like myself can get lucky and see a 1-2s lag only in the waiting area, while others see 6s lag for any action, and inventory doesn't load fully even after 3 minutes of waiting.
I was most surprised to see it can even be drastically different for 2 chars in the same household. I run my main on an AMD 5950 processor and AMD 6800XT GPU (yes I paid through the teeth for that). My 2nd char is on a 1950x threadripper and Titan X maxwell GPU (no slouch) and yet this char consistently gets the 6s lag in Gaol. Both chars on the same 350Mb fibre internet (Virgin in the UK).
A few in our LS have pretty much done everything we want to do in this game, beaten the master trials, got all the REMAs we need and R15d them, and we've been pinning our hopes on new content to keep our favourite pastime going.
Gaol seems really interesting and challenging, exactly what we need right now, but we can't play it. We go in and attempt to guess when to chuck out a cure or erase, people jump about all over the place due to update lag, it's just not possible to do anything but put your best gear on and luck your way through a win.
I read today the accepted bug report listed here:
https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/57736-Abnormal-connection-behavior-within-Odyssey-battle-content-Sheol-Gaol
Which brings up the capped network bandwidth size which is getting trounced inside Goal areas. I hadn't even considered SE might be trying to push more data than their own cap allows since I would have expected that to affect JP players the same way, but maybe it doesn't somehow.
Anyway, if SE do not address this and soon (including fixing the extra lag in d-dyna and sheol) then I think it will force me to finally retire from the game, as it has now become a key skill to predict actions ahead of lag (anyone ever run into a d-dyna statue cos it hadn't loaded yet?).
I don't see a lot of talk about this issue outside of the game so wanted to just dump all my moans here about it now and see what others think. Also other than bombard the official forums with new bug reports (since you can't reply to existing ones to support them, only up-vote), how can we get SE to wake up to it?
|
|