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BGWiki - Issue Reporting Thread & FAQ
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BGWiki - Issue Reporting Thread & FAQ
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[69 days between previous and next post]I don't think it's really bait, there's a legitimate argument that the wiki probably shouldn't be used for private server content. Unfortunately, the wiki is a private entity, and what they allow on it is entirely their own business. If the community collectively believes content shouldn't be on it, having that discussion may influence their way of thinking and eventual policy.. but there's absolutely no guarantee. It doesn't hurt for someone who feels strongly about it to broach the topic, though.
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private servers generally have a lot more engagement per player than retail.
the only real engagement retail ever has is bitching about private server players. engagement means more clicks which means more ad revenues, this is a win-win for bg wiki. How do we know that BG-wiki editors don't support private servers? Maybe they do? Private server populations are probably larger than Shiva right now. I'm sure those pages are generating traffic and that traffic is generating cash for BG. Good for them. I don't see a problem at all.
Another one for the block list then (you know who you are).
The wiki is publically editable. Certain other pages were deleted, why not those.
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well you're definitely wrong about that.
spicyryan was staunchly against private servers when all that was happening/happened. the dude flip flops more than most major politicians though and soured on SE within the last year and also had the opportunity to get some sort of control on a private server, and he is nothing if not a glutton for control. all of this pushed him to now advocating for his specific private server. he still shits on all the other ones every chance he gets. in fact the dude is so deranged that apparently he recently made a 5 hour podcast shitting on all the private servers aside from his own. nobody cares about your white knighting though. these resources are made for the community and by the community. private servers despite being a lot lessor in population than retail still generally have more engagement(as whined about constantly by you all) on twitch/youtube/we can assume website traffic as well. sorry that you don't like the direction the community is going, but a handful of posters on ffxiah shouldn't be allowed to influence that direction.
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here, witness his transformation in real time going from saying that private server ***is not allowed to a short few months later creating it's own section.
worth noting horizon had been booming for about 6 months prior to all this. nasomi/etc started the normalization of all this 6+ years ago. https://www.bluegartr.com/threads/134633-BG-Wiki-and-Private-Servers https://www.bluegartr.com/threads/134519-HorizonXI-%E2%80%93-Era-75-Cap-FFXI-Server-Launching-December-17th-2022?p=7649213&viewfull=1#post7649213 he has edited all his posts against private servers to simply just be a period(due to rampant flip floppery) but from context and people quoting him you can also see the bashing in real time, and then his turn around 3 months later. tldr and to sum up my tangent on this one; don't credit spicyryan with the rise of private servers or their prominence in the community. he had 0 to do with it and is just a shill for a 50 player ***server. this also isn't BG and ffxiah shares exactly 0 staff with BG. go post this there and stop using this website as your outlet to cry isn't spicyryan banned from here? how's he got this sway you seem to think he has?
for not wanting to read about private server things in your safe spaces you sure do know a lot about the behind the scenes. regardless, ffxiah and BG represent probably 1% of communication around ffxi. discord/youtube/twitch probably represent the other 99%. in these mediums, private servers are already relatively accepted and have been for quite some time. ffxiah and BG have probably suffered the most from not accepting the direction that the community is going over the years, thus why they have fallen off so much. makes sense that they would want some of the engagement on private servers, they are trying to keep the lights on. still not sure why you're lobbying for changes to bg wiki on ffxiah though i know what you mean, but radial isn't a troll he's just a retail ffxi simp that doesn't even play ffxi(outside of free campaigns) and likes to complain.
You mean in the thread titled "BGWiki - Issue Reporting Thread & FAQ" started by Funkworkz who is a BGWiki admin that still actively posts on ffxiah?
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I speak only for myself and not for any other wiki editors or admins.
I'm not a fan of deleting pages. Getting people to contribute content is hard. I wasn't a fan of CatsEye content being added to the wiki but it's in its own namespace and shouldn't affect the experience of people using the wiki for retail. I would say the benefit of getting additional people to come to the wiki and edit outweighed the negatives of a single digit number of overzealous people replacing retail info in the main namespace with info that only applies to private servers. As far as I'm aware every instance of that happening has been reverted. The intent is for the main namespace to always remain focused on retail.
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Fenrir.Positron said: » I'm not a fan of deleting pages. The other day I went to check out the DRG guide on BG and it's just...gone. poof. The talk page is still there but the actual guide from Spicy is removed. Makes sense now. https://www.bg-wiki.com/ffxi/Talk:Here_Be_DRGs Lakshmi.Buukki said: » Fenrir.Positron said: » I'm not a fan of deleting pages. The other day I went to check out the DRG guide on BG and it's just...gone. poof. The talk page is still there but the actual guide from Spicy is removed. Makes sense now. https://www.bg-wiki.com/ffxi/Talk:Here_Be_DRGs Yes, Spicy nuked several guides on his way out, causing the biggest headache I've had to deal with since I started volunteering on the site, and making me kind of regret doing so at all. Kaffy said: » This is why it is bait. You can foster discussion all you want but if you really want to make a change bring it up with the actual wiki admins. Discussion about illegal private servers, from people who mod and use tools on retail illegally. Cope masked as bait. well you see.. over time we have gained more exposure to "illegal tools" and have collectively decided that they are ok.
Carbuncle.Nynja said: » You mean in the thread titled "BGWiki - Issue Reporting Thread & FAQ" started by Funkworkz who is a BGWiki admin that still actively posts on ffxiah? GetHelpNerd said: » are you the kind of guy that sees your doctor at the gym and you start showing him some mole on your back? While we are at it, Dhartok page says Code There does not seem to be any limit to how many of these can be active at once Which is incorrect. I don't know how many he can place but it's usually about a full circle around the arena. He definitely stops at some point, would estimate it wastes around 15-20 minutes but probably also depends on how many trusts you have with you that cast -na.
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GetHelpNerd said: » well you see.. over time we have gained more exposure to "illegal tools" and have collectively decided that they are ok. Did we decide it was OK before or after he got banned? RadialArcana said: » PS are things that happen after a game ceases, not while it's still running. and if you do not cite WoW private servers and them essentially spawning WoW classic then you are unfortunately wrong and delusional(the latter of the two likely either way). not to mention WoW still has active development, ffxi is much closer to dead than 99% of active MMOs. you are basically just straight up wrong. the rest isnt worth responding to, you found another way to cry about private server forums here and on BG and took it, it's not bait because you aren't a troll but it's genuinely a waste of time and pathetic. Shichishito said: » Which is incorrect. I don't know how many he can place but it's usually about a full circle around the arena. He definitely stops at some point, would estimate it wastes around 15-20 minutes but probably also depends on how many trusts you have with you that cast -na. Code [623] Dhartok [624] Poison Mist [625] Poison Mist [626] Poison Mist [627] Poison Mist [628] Poison Mist [629] Poison Mist [630] Poison Mist [631] Poison Mist [632] Poison Mist [633] Poison Mist [634] Poison Mist [635] Poison Mist [636] Poison Mist [637] Poison Mist [638] Poison Mist [639] Poison Mist 16 in the dats, so pretty reasonable to assume that's the limit
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This is what the private server page on BGWiki currently says, emphasis added:
Quote: BG Wiki and Private Servers It needs to be stated that BG Wiki is a retail wiki. Wider pages across the wiki should only reflect retail. If you are not sure or can not verify an edit as retail accurate outside of the Category:Private Server, then do not make it. We also encourage anyone participating in a private server to maintain an active retail sub. This not only helps preserve the real game, but will continue providing a crucial resource for private server development. The private server community is, and should be seen as a wider part of the Final Fantasy XI community. Not as a rogue alien or adversary to the game. Private server players use and participate in the development of this wiki. Many projects point to pages on our wiki for their players along with custom comments on their end creating a disunity in player resources. It is for all this and more that we wish to provide a space for quality private server pages while also maintaining the utmost integrity of the wiki for retail. The BGWiki admins and moderators need to decide if this is the stance BGWiki as a wiki resource has. It should be pointed out that the private server page is solely written and edited by one person, you know who. No edits or contributions to it from any other person. Is the above that person's opinion or the stance of BGWiki as a whole. There are several points of contention on that page: a) Quote: The private server community is, and should be seen as a wider part of the Final Fantasy XI community Quote: Private server players use and participate in the development of this wiki Quote: Many projects point to pages on our wiki for their players along with custom comments on their end creating a disunity in player resources. d) Quote: It is for all this and more that we wish to provide a space for quality private server pages while also maintaining the utmost integrity of the wiki for retail I don't think (a) is true at all. Retail and private server XI are entirely different games. The two communities could not be more different in what they want or what they say they like in XI. (b) seems to be made up. I see no evidence of this, though admins can comment. (c) Is a straw man argument. Private server players/admins have the resources to make their own wikis instead of cannibalising retail XI wikis. This is especially true given the number of changes made from retail XI to private server XI, making the two completely different games as already stated. (d) Who's "we" here. Seems to be one person saying this. Is it the stance of BGWiki admins that they "wish to provide a space for quality private server pages"? It should be obvious, but no one looking at that private server page is going to think "That's just one guy saying that". They are going to think that is the stance of BGWiki. Personally I see nothing wrong with deleting pages from a wiki if those pages have nothing to do with what the wiki is about. If there is documentation about a different product on another product's community wiki, should they stay up there because it's "bad" to delete stuff? I don't see how that makes sense. The "it's in a different namespace so bothers no one" stance is a weird one. Firstly, it's not true, it's just a category and a pseudo agreement that private server pages will not be linked to from retail XI pages or the main page. They are pages on the wiki like any other, nothing stopping anyone from linking to them or making them visible.
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ok, thank you.
very well thought out post on FFXIAH which has literally nothing to do with BG, in fact The two communities could not be more different in what they want or what they say they like in XI |
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