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Realistic numbers with kikoku
 Bismarck.Nyaarun
Server: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1006
By Bismarck.Nyaarun 2020-05-01 19:03:17
Quote: Nin is still your best tank for things you do not want using TP moves, or things that have near 1shots in a lowman setup, such as Odin HTBF.
That would be Monk. Capped SB, Highest HP, Highest Meva, AM3 Empyrean, Penance Chi Blast, and a Truck worth of damage in Impetus. NIN wish it could mitigate TP moves like Monk. Sorry, I love NIN but the only thing it shines on as a tank is when your opponent uses single target moves that can be negated with shadows. So AAGK for instance (you wont take a single point of damage vs an enemy like him). Any monster that can wipe your shadows or deal damage through them, you could just bring a Monk for superior damage and higher survival. NIN would be useful for things where Migawari can eat severe moves (AMAN Trove Mimic, Odin HTBF as mentioned), but since they have other TP moves that can go through your shadows, its a moot point. NIN is in a bad spot because SE is keeping it at the midway point between a nuker, debuffer, DD, and weak tank, instead of just committing to one or two roles.
SE is way too enamored with Ninjutsu as a whole, which makes it pretty annoying as well. I would be okay with the ninjutsu side of Ninja if it wasn't generally a complete waste of time to cast. If they doubled the potency strength of Elemental Ninjutsu, and raised the cap/value on stuff like Yurin, Yain, Kakka, Myoshi, Gekka, and Jubaku, would be interesting. I swear Futae could be so much more useful if it stacked with every ninjutsu spell and was a 1:00 re-use timer. As it stands, the only useful niche with NIN right now is if you give it Malaise + Frailty and have it spam Blade: Chi.
No, it would not be MNK. Mnk has HP to survive one major attack, but has nothing for mitigation other than gear. Nin can outright negate damage. Plus, youre going to have both in the same party for this setup, so theres no point having your better physical DD tank the mob in a suboptimal set when you have one that is better at surviving.
Server: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 975
By Bahamut.Justthetip 2020-05-01 19:05:09
Quote: Nin is still your best tank for things you do not want using TP moves, or things that have near 1shots in a lowman setup, such as Odin HTBF.
That would be Monk. Capped SB, Highest HP, Highest Meva, AM3 Empyrean, Penance Chi Blast, and a Truck worth of damage in Impetus. NIN wish it could mitigate TP moves like Monk. Sorry, I love NIN but the only thing it shines on as a tank is when your opponent uses single target moves that can be negated with shadows. So AAGK for instance (you wont take a single point of damage vs an enemy like him). Any monster that can wipe your shadows or deal damage through them, you could just bring a Monk for superior damage and higher survival. NIN would be useful for things where Migawari can eat severe moves (AMAN Trove Mimic, Odin HTBF as mentioned), but since they have other TP moves that can go through your shadows, its a moot point. NIN is in a bad spot because SE is keeping it at the midway point between a nuker, debuffer, DD, and weak tank, instead of just committing to one or two roles.
SE is way too enamored with Ninjutsu as a whole, which makes it pretty annoying as well. I would be okay with the ninjutsu side of Ninja if it wasn't generally a complete waste of time to cast. If they doubled the potency strength of Elemental Ninjutsu, and raised the cap/value on stuff like Yurin, Yain, Kakka, Myoshi, Gekka, and Jubaku, would be interesting. I swear Futae could be so much more useful if it stacked with every ninjutsu spell and was a 1:00 re-use timer. As it stands, the only useful niche with NIN right now is if you give it Malaise + Frailty and have it spam Blade: Chi.
No, it would not be MNK. Mnk has HP to survive one major attack, but has nothing for mitigation other than gear. Nin can outright negate damage. Plus, youre going to have both in the same party for this setup, so theres no point having your better physical DD tank the mob in a suboptimal set when you have one that is better at surviving. Clearly your playing a different game than the rest of us lol. I'm not sure what content you fighting but what your saying is 100% wrong.
[+]
Lakshmi.Buukki
Server: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
By Lakshmi.Buukki 2020-05-01 19:08:35
Nearly every comment you have made in every single thread about game mechanics has been 100% incorrect, Nyaarun. Im going to go back to ignoring your comments, I took the bait again. My bad
[+]
Bismarck.Nyaarun
Server: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1006
By Bismarck.Nyaarun 2020-05-01 19:16:05
Bahamut.Justthetip said: »Quote: Nin is still your best tank for things you do not want using TP moves, or things that have near 1shots in a lowman setup, such as Odin HTBF.
That would be Monk. Capped SB, Highest HP, Highest Meva, AM3 Empyrean, Penance Chi Blast, and a Truck worth of damage in Impetus. NIN wish it could mitigate TP moves like Monk. Sorry, I love NIN but the only thing it shines on as a tank is when your opponent uses single target moves that can be negated with shadows. So AAGK for instance (you wont take a single point of damage vs an enemy like him). Any monster that can wipe your shadows or deal damage through them, you could just bring a Monk for superior damage and higher survival. NIN would be useful for things where Migawari can eat severe moves (AMAN Trove Mimic, Odin HTBF as mentioned), but since they have other TP moves that can go through your shadows, its a moot point. NIN is in a bad spot because SE is keeping it at the midway point between a nuker, debuffer, DD, and weak tank, instead of just committing to one or two roles.
SE is way too enamored with Ninjutsu as a whole, which makes it pretty annoying as well. I would be okay with the ninjutsu side of Ninja if it wasn't generally a complete waste of time to cast. If they doubled the potency strength of Elemental Ninjutsu, and raised the cap/value on stuff like Yurin, Yain, Kakka, Myoshi, Gekka, and Jubaku, would be interesting. I swear Futae could be so much more useful if it stacked with every ninjutsu spell and was a 1:00 re-use timer. As it stands, the only useful niche with NIN right now is if you give it Malaise + Frailty and have it spam Blade: Chi.
No, it would not be MNK. Mnk has HP to survive one major attack, but has nothing for mitigation other than gear. Nin can outright negate damage. Plus, youre going to have both in the same party for this setup, so theres no point having your better physical DD tank the mob in a suboptimal set when you have one that is better at surviving. Clearly your playing a different game than the rest of us lol. I'm not sure what content you fighting but what your saying is 100% wrong.
Clearly im the only person playing the game right. Like i said, you all value "big numbers lul" far too much.
Server: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 975
By Bahamut.Justthetip 2020-05-01 19:54:55
Bahamut.Justthetip said: »Quote: Nin is still your best tank for things you do not want using TP moves, or things that have near 1shots in a lowman setup, such as Odin HTBF.
That would be Monk. Capped SB, Highest HP, Highest Meva, AM3 Empyrean, Penance Chi Blast, and a Truck worth of damage in Impetus. NIN wish it could mitigate TP moves like Monk. Sorry, I love NIN but the only thing it shines on as a tank is when your opponent uses single target moves that can be negated with shadows. So AAGK for instance (you wont take a single point of damage vs an enemy like him). Any monster that can wipe your shadows or deal damage through them, you could just bring a Monk for superior damage and higher survival. NIN would be useful for things where Migawari can eat severe moves (AMAN Trove Mimic, Odin HTBF as mentioned), but since they have other TP moves that can go through your shadows, its a moot point. NIN is in a bad spot because SE is keeping it at the midway point between a nuker, debuffer, DD, and weak tank, instead of just committing to one or two roles.
SE is way too enamored with Ninjutsu as a whole, which makes it pretty annoying as well. I would be okay with the ninjutsu side of Ninja if it wasn't generally a complete waste of time to cast. If they doubled the potency strength of Elemental Ninjutsu, and raised the cap/value on stuff like Yurin, Yain, Kakka, Myoshi, Gekka, and Jubaku, would be interesting. I swear Futae could be so much more useful if it stacked with every ninjutsu spell and was a 1:00 re-use timer. As it stands, the only useful niche with NIN right now is if you give it Malaise + Frailty and have it spam Blade: Chi.
No, it would not be MNK. Mnk has HP to survive one major attack, but has nothing for mitigation other than gear. Nin can outright negate damage. Plus, youre going to have both in the same party for this setup, so theres no point having your better physical DD tank the mob in a suboptimal set when you have one that is better at surviving. Clearly your playing a different game than the rest of us lol. I'm not sure what content you fighting but what your saying is 100% wrong.
Clearly im the only person playing the game right. Like i said, you all value "big numbers lul" far too much. Kinda seems like you value being bad and playing subpar but whatever man. I'll never stop a player from playing the way they want if it doesn't hurt my gameplay so it is what it is. In your eyes all the math and stuff and gearing that people made to make nin what it is today are wrong. Would love to see what you play like and gearing lol.
Bismarck.Nyaarun
Server: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1006
By Bismarck.Nyaarun 2020-05-01 20:06:20
Bahamut.Justthetip said: »Bahamut.Justthetip said: »Quote: Nin is still your best tank for things you do not want using TP moves, or things that have near 1shots in a lowman setup, such as Odin HTBF.
That would be Monk. Capped SB, Highest HP, Highest Meva, AM3 Empyrean, Penance Chi Blast, and a Truck worth of damage in Impetus. NIN wish it could mitigate TP moves like Monk. Sorry, I love NIN but the only thing it shines on as a tank is when your opponent uses single target moves that can be negated with shadows. So AAGK for instance (you wont take a single point of damage vs an enemy like him). Any monster that can wipe your shadows or deal damage through them, you could just bring a Monk for superior damage and higher survival. NIN would be useful for things where Migawari can eat severe moves (AMAN Trove Mimic, Odin HTBF as mentioned), but since they have other TP moves that can go through your shadows, its a moot point. NIN is in a bad spot because SE is keeping it at the midway point between a nuker, debuffer, DD, and weak tank, instead of just committing to one or two roles.
SE is way too enamored with Ninjutsu as a whole, which makes it pretty annoying as well. I would be okay with the ninjutsu side of Ninja if it wasn't generally a complete waste of time to cast. If they doubled the potency strength of Elemental Ninjutsu, and raised the cap/value on stuff like Yurin, Yain, Kakka, Myoshi, Gekka, and Jubaku, would be interesting. I swear Futae could be so much more useful if it stacked with every ninjutsu spell and was a 1:00 re-use timer. As it stands, the only useful niche with NIN right now is if you give it Malaise + Frailty and have it spam Blade: Chi.
No, it would not be MNK. Mnk has HP to survive one major attack, but has nothing for mitigation other than gear. Nin can outright negate damage. Plus, youre going to have both in the same party for this setup, so theres no point having your better physical DD tank the mob in a suboptimal set when you have one that is better at surviving. Clearly your playing a different game than the rest of us lol. I'm not sure what content you fighting but what your saying is 100% wrong.
Clearly im the only person playing the game right. Like i said, you all value "big numbers lul" far too much. Kinda seems like you value being bad and playing subpar but whatever man. I'll never stop a player from playing the way they want if it doesn't hurt my gameplay so it is what it is. In your eyes all the math and stuff and gearing that people made to make nin what it is today are wrong. Would love to see what you play like and gearing lol.
Their gear and etc for nin is fine. The problem isnt how they gear it, nor really how they usually play it. The problem is everyone's perception on "its not doing capped 9s, therefore its bad".
Run does more damage than pld. Run also dies well before a pld ever would. Sometimes, not dying is more important than slightly more damage. More damage only matters when youre geared well above the requirement for the fight.
The same was true of mnk; Subtle blow is stupidly good. Even if you do less damage, the mob can still die faster than a standard setup just due to the mob doing less actions, and not having to respond to action spam. Not to mention it becomes much safer. And that was before monk got buffed. Now you have very low TP feed, highest white damage AND high WS damage, ontop of high MEVA and highest base HP in the game. Outside of 1hr zerg, its very hard to keep up with a monk with all its various utility now.
Nin is a sturdier monk with higher utility and magic damage. You throw a nin monk party together, and mobs wont use TPs, making fights much, much safer, and things will still die very fast.
The only issue with nin at the end of the day is the community doesnt want to put forth the effort to make nin relevant. Not the nin community, the actual player community in general.
 Leviathan.Draugo
Server: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2775
By Leviathan.Draugo 2020-05-01 20:19:49
Most fights these days do not favor the slow and steady method. For one there is a timer on everything, secondly, the longer a mob stays alive the greater chances it will *** you up. Subtle blow is not the end all of attack mitigation, plenty of mobs if not most spam enfeebles and magic (90% of the time being AoE), neither of which are good when engaged in longer fights.
Ninja needs work, quit deluding yourself.
Leviathan.Draugo
Server: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2775
By Leviathan.Draugo 2020-05-01 20:29:04
Also, I want a *** gun to use marksmanship with, niche yes, daken being better obviously, but would give us some kind of ranged attack to utilize on appropriate ranged fights. Better than the lolWheel atm. Daken doesn't do *** if you can't get close enough to melee.
Leviathan.Draugo
Server: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2775
By Leviathan.Draugo 2020-05-01 20:33:21
Actually, a TP return for wheel spam, would work also.
[+]
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1326
By Asura.Azagarth 2020-05-01 20:35:34
Ninja shouldnt become a regular DD of smack em and do big ws. It would be cool is SE made its niche truly ninjitsu spells. Like I said prior, the non mp based rdm in essence with a few tricks and things that can be offered over rdm. That would be cool.
Nin nuking should be the aim, it also appears to me SE thinks so since they tried to "fix" it but obviously that was a big flop. However it did get attention and thus is probably where we will see future changes too.
If Nin got macc trait making its spells land on top lv content for 30k+ ni and 40k+ san, it might find a decent niche that way as they could spem those and keep up with other dps. Maybe since gokotai gets regain something where you convert your tp into mab during nukes or something /shrug
There are so many ways to improve Nin, but the argument is what it can be used for now, and there is nothing I would take my nin to unless for fun over my other DD jobs.
and since mnk hp keeps getting brough up, drk > mnk. An apoc drk also self heals, has spikes, stun etc and has an amazing hybrid build too that caps DT (just lacks in the meva). I take throat stabs to the face for 6k now and just dont care bc I can ws after for full health :D
[+]
Server: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 975
By Bahamut.Justthetip 2020-05-01 20:35:58
Bahamut.Justthetip said: »Bahamut.Justthetip said: »Quote: Nin is still your best tank for things you do not want using TP moves, or things that have near 1shots in a lowman setup, such as Odin HTBF.
That would be Monk. Capped SB, Highest HP, Highest Meva, AM3 Empyrean, Penance Chi Blast, and a Truck worth of damage in Impetus. NIN wish it could mitigate TP moves like Monk. Sorry, I love NIN but the only thing it shines on as a tank is when your opponent uses single target moves that can be negated with shadows. So AAGK for instance (you wont take a single point of damage vs an enemy like him). Any monster that can wipe your shadows or deal damage through them, you could just bring a Monk for superior damage and higher survival. NIN would be useful for things where Migawari can eat severe moves (AMAN Trove Mimic, Odin HTBF as mentioned), but since they have other TP moves that can go through your shadows, its a moot point. NIN is in a bad spot because SE is keeping it at the midway point between a nuker, debuffer, DD, and weak tank, instead of just committing to one or two roles.
SE is way too enamored with Ninjutsu as a whole, which makes it pretty annoying as well. I would be okay with the ninjutsu side of Ninja if it wasn't generally a complete waste of time to cast. If they doubled the potency strength of Elemental Ninjutsu, and raised the cap/value on stuff like Yurin, Yain, Kakka, Myoshi, Gekka, and Jubaku, would be interesting. I swear Futae could be so much more useful if it stacked with every ninjutsu spell and was a 1:00 re-use timer. As it stands, the only useful niche with NIN right now is if you give it Malaise + Frailty and have it spam Blade: Chi.
No, it would not be MNK. Mnk has HP to survive one major attack, but has nothing for mitigation other than gear. Nin can outright negate damage. Plus, youre going to have both in the same party for this setup, so theres no point having your better physical DD tank the mob in a suboptimal set when you have one that is better at surviving. Clearly your playing a different game than the rest of us lol. I'm not sure what content you fighting but what your saying is 100% wrong.
Clearly im the only person playing the game right. Like i said, you all value "big numbers lul" far too much. Kinda seems like you value being bad and playing subpar but whatever man. I'll never stop a player from playing the way they want if it doesn't hurt my gameplay so it is what it is. In your eyes all the math and stuff and gearing that people made to make nin what it is today are wrong. Would love to see what you play like and gearing lol.
Their gear and etc for nin is fine. The problem isnt how they gear it, nor really how they usually play it. The problem is everyone's perception on "its not doing capped 9s, therefore its bad".
Run does more damage than pld. Run also dies well before a pld ever would. Sometimes, not dying is more important than slightly more damage. More damage only matters when youre geared well above the requirement for the fight.
The same was true of mnk; Subtle blow is stupidly good. Even if you do less damage, the mob can still die faster than a standard setup just due to the mob doing less actions, and not having to respond to action spam. Not to mention it becomes much safer. And that was before monk got buffed. Now you have very low TP feed, highest white damage AND high WS damage, ontop of high MEVA and highest base HP in the game. Outside of 1hr zerg, its very hard to keep up with a monk with all its various utility now.
Nin is a sturdier monk with higher utility and magic damage. You throw a nin monk party together, and mobs wont use TPs, making fights much, much safer, and things will still die very fast.
The only issue with nin at the end of the day is the community doesnt want to put forth the effort to make nin relevant. Not the nin community, the actual player community in general. LOL to all of this yea man different games clearly set in your ways sadly. Even if you do less damage the mob dies faster in a standard setup????? That doesn't even make sense. On niche fights sure nin works great im sure. Noone is asking nin to do capped damage everytime but doing 10-20ks vs someone doing 30-50k easy while having the same survival rate of a nin is kinda a no brainer who i'd take. Either way you do alot of low tier 6 man stuff which is maybe why you keep saying this or you really love subtle blow which people have been fine without for awhile.
Leviathan.Draugo
Server: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2775
By Leviathan.Draugo 2020-05-01 20:39:58
Would be kinda cool to do nuking, but meh, I would be a little disappointed if they ended up being a gimpy non-mp rdm. Now, if you could cast ninjutsu while silenced, maybe.
I agree nin is fairly, meh atm.
But wheel spam, and ninjutsu in general is kind of a pain with tools. Have to be in main inventory to use mostly the big issue.
Would be cool, if they did go toward the mage route if some subs could be viable again, looking at you rdm/drk. If we could land stun, would be pimp.
[+]
Bismarck.Nyaarun
Server: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1006
By Bismarck.Nyaarun 2020-05-01 20:55:51
Bahamut.Justthetip said: »Bahamut.Justthetip said: »Bahamut.Justthetip said: »Quote: Nin is still your best tank for things you do not want using TP moves, or things that have near 1shots in a lowman setup, such as Odin HTBF.
That would be Monk. Capped SB, Highest HP, Highest Meva, AM3 Empyrean, Penance Chi Blast, and a Truck worth of damage in Impetus. NIN wish it could mitigate TP moves like Monk. Sorry, I love NIN but the only thing it shines on as a tank is when your opponent uses single target moves that can be negated with shadows. So AAGK for instance (you wont take a single point of damage vs an enemy like him). Any monster that can wipe your shadows or deal damage through them, you could just bring a Monk for superior damage and higher survival. NIN would be useful for things where Migawari can eat severe moves (AMAN Trove Mimic, Odin HTBF as mentioned), but since they have other TP moves that can go through your shadows, its a moot point. NIN is in a bad spot because SE is keeping it at the midway point between a nuker, debuffer, DD, and weak tank, instead of just committing to one or two roles.
SE is way too enamored with Ninjutsu as a whole, which makes it pretty annoying as well. I would be okay with the ninjutsu side of Ninja if it wasn't generally a complete waste of time to cast. If they doubled the potency strength of Elemental Ninjutsu, and raised the cap/value on stuff like Yurin, Yain, Kakka, Myoshi, Gekka, and Jubaku, would be interesting. I swear Futae could be so much more useful if it stacked with every ninjutsu spell and was a 1:00 re-use timer. As it stands, the only useful niche with NIN right now is if you give it Malaise + Frailty and have it spam Blade: Chi.
No, it would not be MNK. Mnk has HP to survive one major attack, but has nothing for mitigation other than gear. Nin can outright negate damage. Plus, youre going to have both in the same party for this setup, so theres no point having your better physical DD tank the mob in a suboptimal set when you have one that is better at surviving. Clearly your playing a different game than the rest of us lol. I'm not sure what content you fighting but what your saying is 100% wrong.
Clearly im the only person playing the game right. Like i said, you all value "big numbers lul" far too much. Kinda seems like you value being bad and playing subpar but whatever man. I'll never stop a player from playing the way they want if it doesn't hurt my gameplay so it is what it is. In your eyes all the math and stuff and gearing that people made to make nin what it is today are wrong. Would love to see what you play like and gearing lol.
Their gear and etc for nin is fine. The problem isnt how they gear it, nor really how they usually play it. The problem is everyone's perception on "its not doing capped 9s, therefore its bad".
Run does more damage than pld. Run also dies well before a pld ever would. Sometimes, not dying is more important than slightly more damage. More damage only matters when youre geared well above the requirement for the fight.
The same was true of mnk; Subtle blow is stupidly good. Even if you do less damage, the mob can still die faster than a standard setup just due to the mob doing less actions, and not having to respond to action spam. Not to mention it becomes much safer. And that was before monk got buffed. Now you have very low TP feed, highest white damage AND high WS damage, ontop of high MEVA and highest base HP in the game. Outside of 1hr zerg, its very hard to keep up with a monk with all its various utility now.
Nin is a sturdier monk with higher utility and magic damage. You throw a nin monk party together, and mobs wont use TPs, making fights much, much safer, and things will still die very fast.
The only issue with nin at the end of the day is the community doesnt want to put forth the effort to make nin relevant. Not the nin community, the actual player community in general. LOL to all of this yea man different games clearly set in your ways sadly. Even if you do less damage the mob dies faster in a standard setup????? That doesn't even make sense. On niche fights sure nin works great im sure. Noone is asking nin to do capped damage everytime but doing 10-20ks vs someone doing 30-50k easy while having the same survival rate of a nin is kinda a no brainer who i'd take. Either way you do alot of low tier 6 man stuff which is maybe why you keep saying this or you really love subtle blow which people have been fine without for awhile.
It only makes no sense if you dont know how mobs in the game work. Without a subtle blow setup, mobs will use more TP. All of these have to be responded to, many include CC, lowering overall DPS. Even if you can hypothetically do more with a standard setup, you can still end up doing less overall because you have more to deal with, where as the lower, consistent and safer DPS pulls ahead in practice.
And this was BEFORE monk got buffed. Now that it got buffed, its putting out more damage in both cases. Anything ninja can tank, subtle blow setup is pretty much the best way to go now. The monk buffs were a huge buff to nin, and people are sleeping on it.
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1326
By Asura.Azagarth 2020-05-01 21:14:31
Would be kinda cool to do nuking, but meh, I would be a little disappointed if they ended up being a gimpy non-mp rdm. Now, if you could cast ninjutsu while silenced, maybe.
I agree nin is fairly, meh atm.
But wheel spam, and ninjutsu in general is kind of a pain with tools. Have to be in main inventory to use mostly the big issue.
Ya I am just saying something "different" than just another common weapons dd. Nin of all jobs I think offers that ability since its obvious SE wants them to be.
Honestly if I was to decide nins fate it would have its ele spells be more of a super potent en spell like rdm has BUT only affecting ammo (taling 2k+ ele dmg). I would then have all rema produce a special type of shurikens and give them recylce type traits like rng has so to not need to kill inv space.
Then I would give nin throwing based ws... something like chucking 8 shurikens at the mob lol, etc.
to give a real idea battle would go something like...
Cast Hyoton:ni
hit mob, then daken procs and deals 2000~ ele dmg as added effect plus regular dmg (mabye effect going with element of spell like paraylze here)
Then once at 1000tp
Ws with "Ragging furry" 6 shurikens, crit rates varies with tp, and would deal dmg like vistcory smite, or CDC etc (30k~)
and maybe some cool ele shurkien ws like... "leaden shuriken" and can do 50k+ in dyna like cor does?
doesnt seem to far fetched and would be fun and unique.
Server: Sylph
Game: FFXI
Posts: 525
By Sylph.Cossack 2020-05-02 01:04:02
I haven't met one person with a Nagi thats regretted it.
[+]
By SimonSes 2020-05-02 01:29:13
doesnt seem to far fetched and would be fun and unique. It wouldnt be unique, it would be gimped enspell and standard WSs just with different name and animation.
Unique would be WS that power is based on evasion for example or elemental wheel giving enspell that absorb stat with each hit for 60 sec capping at 50 stacks and duration being reset to maximum with each hit. So for example hyoton would absorb 2 mab per hit for +100 max at 50 stacks and each hit would reset duration to 60 sec.
By SimonSes 2020-05-02 01:32:01
I haven't met one person with a Nagi thats regretted it.
Because everyone who made it had no expectation that it will be anything else other than very niche weapon.
Bismarck.Lilmartio
Server: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 47
By Bismarck.Lilmartio 2020-05-02 02:17:24
I haven't met one person with a Nagi thats regretted it.
Because everyone who made it had no expectation that it will be anything else other than very niche weapon. Made mine knowing it was going to be the most expensive lockstyle.
[+]
By Foxfire 2020-05-02 03:29:19
I'm sure all fifteen people who made nagi had very specific (read: incredibly low) expectations when they decided to make one.
Lakshmi.Konvict
Server: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
Posts: 878
By Lakshmi.Konvict 2020-05-02 03:40:35
For ninja what would be best combo for DPS assuming everything is Rank 15? Aeonic/kannagi Kannagi/kikoku? Aeonic/su5? If you offhand Kikoku can the additional effect paralyze still proc?? Never really played ninja but its a fun job and it has great utility. Plus great to have for Abyssea farming. Thanks ^_^
 Asura.Sechs
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 10136
By Asura.Sechs 2020-05-02 07:09:52
You don't get the +attack bonus if you offhand a relic.
You don't get the TP bonus if you offhand an Aeonic.
BiS for NIN in the majority (but not all) of situations is gonna be R15 Heishi Shorinken MH and one of the many nice OHs for Heishi.
For pure damage maybe a Kanaria with godly augments, otherwise a Perfect Ochu, both can boost both white and WS damage with their modifiers. (Ochu also has the additional feat of boosting your magicbursted spells, if you ever gonna use any. Very unlikely in group play)
If you need accuracy the best options are Shigi (Augmented), Ambu Katana or Fudo Masamune.
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Server: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 975
By Bahamut.Justthetip 2020-05-02 08:03:23
Bahamut.Justthetip said: »Bahamut.Justthetip said: »Bahamut.Justthetip said: »Quote: Nin is still your best tank for things you do not want using TP moves, or things that have near 1shots in a lowman setup, such as Odin HTBF.
That would be Monk. Capped SB, Highest HP, Highest Meva, AM3 Empyrean, Penance Chi Blast, and a Truck worth of damage in Impetus. NIN wish it could mitigate TP moves like Monk. Sorry, I love NIN but the only thing it shines on as a tank is when your opponent uses single target moves that can be negated with shadows. So AAGK for instance (you wont take a single point of damage vs an enemy like him). Any monster that can wipe your shadows or deal damage through them, you could just bring a Monk for superior damage and higher survival. NIN would be useful for things where Migawari can eat severe moves (AMAN Trove Mimic, Odin HTBF as mentioned), but since they have other TP moves that can go through your shadows, its a moot point. NIN is in a bad spot because SE is keeping it at the midway point between a nuker, debuffer, DD, and weak tank, instead of just committing to one or two roles.
SE is way too enamored with Ninjutsu as a whole, which makes it pretty annoying as well. I would be okay with the ninjutsu side of Ninja if it wasn't generally a complete waste of time to cast. If they doubled the potency strength of Elemental Ninjutsu, and raised the cap/value on stuff like Yurin, Yain, Kakka, Myoshi, Gekka, and Jubaku, would be interesting. I swear Futae could be so much more useful if it stacked with every ninjutsu spell and was a 1:00 re-use timer. As it stands, the only useful niche with NIN right now is if you give it Malaise + Frailty and have it spam Blade: Chi.
No, it would not be MNK. Mnk has HP to survive one major attack, but has nothing for mitigation other than gear. Nin can outright negate damage. Plus, youre going to have both in the same party for this setup, so theres no point having your better physical DD tank the mob in a suboptimal set when you have one that is better at surviving. Clearly your playing a different game than the rest of us lol. I'm not sure what content you fighting but what your saying is 100% wrong.
Clearly im the only person playing the game right. Like i said, you all value "big numbers lul" far too much. Kinda seems like you value being bad and playing subpar but whatever man. I'll never stop a player from playing the way they want if it doesn't hurt my gameplay so it is what it is. In your eyes all the math and stuff and gearing that people made to make nin what it is today are wrong. Would love to see what you play like and gearing lol.
Their gear and etc for nin is fine. The problem isnt how they gear it, nor really how they usually play it. The problem is everyone's perception on "its not doing capped 9s, therefore its bad".
Run does more damage than pld. Run also dies well before a pld ever would. Sometimes, not dying is more important than slightly more damage. More damage only matters when youre geared well above the requirement for the fight.
The same was true of mnk; Subtle blow is stupidly good. Even if you do less damage, the mob can still die faster than a standard setup just due to the mob doing less actions, and not having to respond to action spam. Not to mention it becomes much safer. And that was before monk got buffed. Now you have very low TP feed, highest white damage AND high WS damage, ontop of high MEVA and highest base HP in the game. Outside of 1hr zerg, its very hard to keep up with a monk with all its various utility now.
Nin is a sturdier monk with higher utility and magic damage. You throw a nin monk party together, and mobs wont use TPs, making fights much, much safer, and things will still die very fast.
The only issue with nin at the end of the day is the community doesnt want to put forth the effort to make nin relevant. Not the nin community, the actual player community in general. LOL to all of this yea man different games clearly set in your ways sadly. Even if you do less damage the mob dies faster in a standard setup????? That doesn't even make sense. On niche fights sure nin works great im sure. Noone is asking nin to do capped damage everytime but doing 10-20ks vs someone doing 30-50k easy while having the same survival rate of a nin is kinda a no brainer who i'd take. Either way you do alot of low tier 6 man stuff which is maybe why you keep saying this or you really love subtle blow which people have been fine without for awhile.
It only makes no sense if you dont know how mobs in the game work. Without a subtle blow setup, mobs will use more TP. All of these have to be responded to, many include CC, lowering overall DPS. Even if you can hypothetically do more with a standard setup, you can still end up doing less overall because you have more to deal with, where as the lower, consistent and safer DPS pulls ahead in practice.
And this was BEFORE monk got buffed. Now that it got buffed, its putting out more damage in both cases. Anything ninja can tank, subtle blow setup is pretty much the best way to go now. The monk buffs were a huge buff to nin, and people are sleeping on it. I had a post responding to this but im just not gonna waste time anymore do you guy. Saying top level players are sleeping on subtle blow setup for stuff is LOL.
 Asura.Shiraj
Server: Asura
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Posts: 1091
By Asura.Shiraj 2020-05-02 09:13:07
Quote: Run also dies well before a pld ever would.
I feel offended.
Valefor.Yandaime
Server: Valefor
Game: FFXI
Posts: 782
By Valefor.Yandaime 2020-05-02 10:16:20
Quote: Run also dies well before a pld ever would.
I feel offended.
Yeahhh... I’ve never seen a proper Tank-Minded RUN ever die as described. Perhaps a RUN that’s in full-on “DD Mode” maybe with not one shred of Hybrid equipped but never-the-fck-ever a Tank-Minded. It simply won’t happen lol; Capped DT, MEva for days, Battuta, Aettir or even worse Epeo... lol
By Crossbones 2020-05-02 10:30:02
Keep in mind that's coming from the same guy who said rune isn't a good tank cause they aren't on heavy armor or whatever. Quite possibly the biggest dunce on the forums and that's really saying something.
Server: Bahamut
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Posts: 975
By Bahamut.Justthetip 2020-05-02 11:26:20
Keep in mind that's coming from the same guy who said rune isn't a good tank cause they aren't on heavy armor or whatever. Quite possibly the biggest dunce on the forums and that's really saying something. Ya the guy is legit clueless judging from the post he keeps making about how mnk and nin combo is better than whats out and been 100% fine now lol. This combo by his statement can out DD a standard party some how.
Lakshmi.Buukki
Server: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
By Lakshmi.Buukki 2020-05-02 11:26:40
For ninja what would be best combo for DPS assuming everything is Rank 15? Aeonic/kannagi Kannagi/kikoku? Aeonic/su5? If you offhand Kikoku can the additional effect paralyze still proc?? Never really played ninja but its a fun job and it has great utility. Plus great to have for Abyssea farming. Thanks ^_^
Heishi/Fudo Masamune (when not attack capped or high tier content)
You're welcome ✊
Asura.Arico
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 535
By Asura.Arico 2020-05-02 12:05:09
Quote: Run also dies well before a pld ever would.
I feel offended.
Yeahhh... I’ve never seen a proper Tank-Minded RUN ever die as described. Perhaps a RUN that’s in full-on “DD Mode” maybe with not one shred of Hybrid equipped but never-the-fck-ever a Tank-Minded. It simply won’t happen lol; Capped DT, MEva for days, Battuta, Aettir or even worse Epeo... lol
Yes, but you're forgetting that PLD can still pump out serious damage in it's tank set while if RUN even thinks about wanting to keep hate it needs to switch to a super squishy DD set.
ohwait...
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By SimonSes 2020-05-02 12:08:14
Bahamut.Justthetip said: »Keep in mind that's coming from the same guy who said rune isn't a good tank cause they aren't on heavy armor or whatever. Quite possibly the biggest dunce on the forums and that's really saying something. Ya the guy is legit clueless judging from the post he keeps making about how mnk and nin combo is better than whats out and been 100% fine now lol. This combo by his statement can out DD a standard party some how.
Even going his logic 2x mnk would be better than nin+mnk, simply because they can achieve 100% uptime on Penance and also can share tanking. Mnk paired with nin would end up tanking anyway unless he would intentionally lower his dps below NINs dps, but then 2 NINs would be better lol
By geigei 2020-05-02 12:23:21
How this turned into nin vs mnk?
So I was losing interest in the game because I was stuck in a rut of never getting to do anything but cor, so I returned to my first love ninja. I followed the guides as best I could. My gear is the same as in the guides except for the wsd rings and some less than perfect augments.
So my question is this, using omen mobs, and no buffs as the base line what kinda numbers should I be seeing with R15 kikoku? If this has already been stated I’m sorry to ask it again I looked around and couldn’t find it.
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