Tauret Evis Vs Twashtar Rudras

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Tauret Evis vs Twashtar Rudras
 
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By 2020-02-24 01:38:32
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By SimonSes 2020-02-24 04:07:03
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DirectX said: »
SimonSes said: »
Nariont said: »
DirectX said: »
I thought climatic flourish was a single hit thing that you use before a ws. How can you do 3 ws with one climatic flourish?

its a forced crit based on number of finishing moves consumed for the flourish, so up to 5 if i remember right

Up to 6 actually with empy head and it works like that:
It forces crit on first hit of an attack round or first hit of WS and lasts for 6 rounds/WSs.
Usually you pop it right before WS, so it's something like that:
CM#1:WS
Reverse Flourish
CM#2:WS
CM#3:Attack Round
CM#4:Attack Round
CM#5:Attack Round
CM#6:WS

Of course if you mix Climactic Flourish with SP abilities and/or temp items you can do 6+ Climactic Rudra in a row, which I reference a lot while talking about DNC being among top burst damage jobs for zerg.
If you are using gearswap and have all TP wing meds in Reis and an icarus wing you could do insane damage disengaged and keeping the crit hit for 6 WS in a row.

I mean.. I know :) I described that like year ago in DNC thread lol. Also if you actually plan to use temps and meds you can do far more than 6 Climactic Rudra, because your SP2 resets timer on all flourishes + adds tons of damage when its active + let you use 3 more flourished for free and leave you with full 9 FM ready. So using wings in escha (you can also use aoe wings from party members), you can probably make even 18 Rudra if you have enough people with wings. With good coordination that could probably rival even single SMN AC on target weak to darkness, since Rudra self SC.

Here you have a part of saved parse from one of our last Erinys. We don't zerg it, but I used DNC there in similar way. Just doing Climactic Rudra and getting TP from Tactician, wings and reverse flourish, just slowly with SMN mewing.
Code
<ws>
  <Rudras_Storm>
    <tally>24</tally>
    <damage>2231677</damage>
  </Rudras_Storm>
</ws>
 
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By 2020-02-24 04:22:52
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By SimonSes 2020-02-24 04:27:45
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DirectX said: »
Wonder how it would be for Erinys with a smn mewing

Lol I just edited my post with exactly that. What a coincidence lol
 
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By 2020-02-24 04:38:10
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By SimonSes 2020-02-24 04:48:26
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DirectX said: »
That's its total HP with 6 chars? Or missing sc damage?

Total HP was way above 3M. We had 18ppl with pretty much only me on DNC and 2nd person on THF (He did 10 Rudra for around 800k total damage) doing damage with Rudra's.

SC damage was weak because Erinys heavily resists darkness. I did 10 darkness, most of them of 99999 Rudra:
Code
<SC-Ban>
  <other>
    <sc>
       <tally>10</tally>
       <damage>166926</damage>
    </sc>
  </other>
<total_damage>166926</total_damage>
</SC-Ban>
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By Mrgrim 2020-02-24 05:09:29
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Erynis is resistant to magic overall, and outright absorbs it during his reaving wind phase. At 6 ppl he has around 1.2mil hp.
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By SimonSes 2020-02-24 07:43:31
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Asura.Sechs said: »

Dynamis parses and generally parses against other people that suppose to show job, not player capabilities are generally really irrelevant. We have guy in our LS who wins dynamis parses on whatever job he comes and it's always a MASSIVE lead (like sometimes doubling the damage on 2nd person in parse, but usually having at least 20% lead). He is just THAT good on maximizing DPS and probably has much lower ping too (just a guess based on how fast he can switch targets and WS sometimes). He could probably come on WHM and make it look like competitive DPS job and I doubt anyone on any job could outparse his DRG. That's also a matter of having good healers too and people knowing each other and expecting who might suddenly need fast cure or cursna.
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By Fenrir.Melphina 2020-02-24 08:30:32
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Dynamis parses and generally parses against other people that suppose to show job, not player capabilities are generally really irrelevant.

I disagree somewhat. Dynamis parses are a reasonable gauge when there are consistent trends emerging over the course of many runs. Individual runs can vary, but if DD A consistently places 1-2% higher than DD B, who consistently places 5-10% higher than DD C, and this trend keeps emerging over the course of several dozen runs, then you have a reasonable baseline to gauge general potential. All parsing becomes more reliable with large sample sizes, and this is no different. I understand how engage time, overkill damage, and buffs can alter parse numbers, but if there's enough consistency in the data you can still make generalizations.


Quote:
Slightly OT but I finally managed to test my Twashtar (only rank 11) with Centovente offhand in Dynamis Jeuno.

Just FYI, dynamis jeuno mobs have much lower defenses than other zones. I've hit the damage cap with my rudra's storms dozens of times versus goblins, and I'm talking weaponskill damage here and not skillchain. I haven't come close to that in the other zones. My group consistently buffs me the same way in every zone too. Goblins are just very squishy, whereas turtles have rocks for bodies as much as they do for brains. Yags and orcs are somewhere in the middle.
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By SimonSes 2020-02-24 08:38:54
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Fenrir.Melphina said: »
I disagree somewhat. Dynamis parses are a reasonable gauge when there are consistent trends emerging over the course of many runs. Individual runs can vary, but if DD A consistently places 1-2% higher than DD B, who consistently places 5-10% higher than DD C, and this trend keeps emerging over the course of several dozen runs, then you have a reasonable baseline to gauge general potential. All parsing becomes more reliable with large sample sizes, and this is no different. I understand how engage time, overkill damage, and buffs can alter parse numbers, but if there's enough consistency in the data you can still make generalizations.

It only shows consistency of player vs player, not job vs job. You would need several people ALL having access to same equipped several jobs and circle those jobs during many dynamis runs, while keeping buffs the same. Some jobs played right also has massive advantage, but requires support being aware of what they gonna do, like for example DRG doing Sonic Thrusts hitting several mobs for 30k damage. Try to compete with that with single target WSing lol.

Fenrir.Melphina said: »
Just FYI, dynamis jeuno mobs have much lower defenses than other zones. I've hit the damage cap with my rudra's storms dozens of times versus goblins, and I'm talking weaponskill damage here and not skillchain. I haven't come close to that in the other zones. My group consistently buffs me the same way in every zone too. Goblins are just very squishy, whereas turtles have rocks for bodies as much as they do for brains. Yags and orcs are somewhere in the middle.

It's more of because Jeuno goblins has highest damage taken bonus, not much lower def.
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By Fenrir.Melphina 2020-02-24 09:00:53
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Tauret: The 50% additional boost to WSD makes this weapon super powerful.

Twashtar: The only thing that makes this weapon strong in main hand is the AM3. I gotta say the increase of damage afterwards is really amazing and noticeable.

Separate post here to address the main question.

First off, Twashter's aftermath isn't the only thing that makes it powerful in the main hand. At rank 15 twashter adds 10% to rudra's storm damage just like Tauret adds 50% to evisceration. It's the same type of multiplier too, and is tacked on at the end of the damage calculation. This is significant because it's separate from normal crit and wsd calculations, so it adds an extra multiplier. If it were just added to gear WSD calculation it would be less impactful, and since SA or TA rudra's is so strong because of the way it stacks multiplier onto multipllier that's important. What you have is this.

Base damage x Crit multiplier x Gear WSD multiplier X Twashter's R 15 multiplier

Now with that said, the ideal choice is going to vary based on your buffs. I've said in the sticky that my mainhanded Twashter's evisceration's are comparable to its non stacked rudra's storms unless I'm heavily buffed on attack, but with enough attack unstacked rudra's does still pull ahead. If I were to swap into my Tauret/twashter build my eviscerations would definately be stronger than my unstacked rudra's, but it would come at the expense of my stacked SA and TA rudra's damage and losing out on Twashters AM3 really does hurt. Note that when your getting buffed heavily your going to have a lot of tp overflow anyway. Even when I try to weaponskill at close to 1k I often end up throwing out unstacked weaponskills around 1500-1700 TP.... because samurai roll and over 50% triple attack rate. Yeah... so that's a thing.

As a general rule of thumb, when I'm soloing I tend to use Tauret mainhand. But whenever I'm getting party buffs I run Twashter. Twashter/cento, twashter/taming, and twashter/tauret combos are all viable and pretty darn comparable to one another, but for tauret your ideal setup would be Tauret/twashter. Twashter will always be included in the "ideal" weapon combo because it just has too much dexterity to not be a BiS, be it either main or offhand deoending on what setup your going for.
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By SimonSes 2020-02-24 09:17:41
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Fenrir.Melphina said: »
Twashter/cento, twashter/taming, and twashter/tauret combos are all viable and pretty darn comparable to one another

Twashtar/Cento is significantly stronger than 2 other options, assuming you actually have capped accuracy.
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By Cerberus.Blackpain 2020-06-16 22:39:19
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Hi everyone as a returning player after 6 years being gone what weapon skills are viable? From what I’m seeing mercy stroke seems dead, exenerator is really good & rhudras is OP. If any of this information accurate? I have a mandau and twashtar at level 119 rank 1. Should I upgrade these or are they not worth it?
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By Fenrir.Melphina 2020-06-16 23:10:56
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From what I’m seeing mercy stroke seems dead, exenerator is really good & rhudras is OP.


Exenterator is incredibly bad. Evisceration is your go to for a multi hit weaponskill. Rudra's storm is pretty busted. And Twashter is worth taking to Rank 15. Mainhand twashter with offhand tauret or perfect taming sari is currently the strongest damage combo in the game. Mandau is probably the most expensive glamor piece in the game for us, but a cool looking one at least. I glamor my offhand dagger to look like mandau. As far as practical use goes, unfortunately a regular old kaja knife is stronger than R 15 Mandau (which says a lot about Tauret). Don't waste your gil upgrading it unless they give it some extensive love in a future update. Right now it's unforeseeable and unless Mandau gets a revamp spending money on it is literally the same as throwing gil into a black hole.
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By Leviathan.Kingkitt 2020-06-17 00:27:47
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I personally love my vajra main, and twash or tauret offhand. Vajra am3 with Maligance gear makes it a lot more viable than in the past and lets thf not be so squish.
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By SimonSes 2020-06-17 00:31:01
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Fenrir.Melphina said: »
Mainhand twashter with offhand tauret or perfect taming sari is currently the strongest damage combo in the game.

No its not lol. Twashtar/Cento and Tauret/Twashtar are both stronger. Actually I think even Aeneas/Twashtar is stronger.
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By Cerberus.Blackpain 2020-06-17 03:08:50
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Thanks for the information @SimonSes & @Melphina! I guess I’m gonna work on twashtar/cento. I have an old cento but I’m sure it’s got the wrong augments on it. I’m still digging through old gear so some of the names I see kinda refresh my memory. Lastly is the artifact, relic and empyrean gear worth upgrading or should I just try this ambuscade thing out?
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By Fenrir.Melphina 2020-06-17 14:26:20
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No its not lol. Twashtar/Cento and Tauret/Twashtar are both stronger. Actually I think even Aeneas/Twashtar is stronger.


Mainhand Twashter with offhand Tauret, Taming, or Cento are all ideal choices. Cento depends on accuracy because it has no Ilvl of it's own. I agree that I should have mentioned it though, sorry for missing it. I disagree that aeneas manihand is better than twashter mainhand though.

Quote:
I’m still digging through old gear so some of the names I see kinda refresh my memory. Lastly is the artifact, relic and empyrean gear worth upgrading or should I just try this ambuscade thing out?


Artifact head, body, and legs are core pieces to upgrade. Relic feet, legs, and body are also core. Relic hands are extremely useful in dynamis, and relic head is a strong "all purpose" TP piece. My gear sets are posted on my profile. Have a look at them to get an idea of what you should be trying to build for.